Thumb over

[sumpianodude]

I have recently been trying out the thumb over method
How does one play thumb over? When I try to play scales with it it cuts short my notes, and basically skips a chunk. Also my arms get tired quickly and accents go on my thumb, rather than the notes.(if I did it before, than even more so now)
My c major scale right hand sounds like:
CDE  FGAB  CDE  FGABCBAGF EDC BAGF EDC

Where the spaces are is where it sounds like a hiccup.

Has anyone experienced this problem?

[louispodesta]

I have recently been trying out the thumb over method
How does one play thumb over? When I try to play scales with it it cuts short my notes, and basically skips a chunk. Also my arms get tired quickly and accents go on my thumb, rather than the notes.(if I did it before, than even more so now)
My c major scale right hand sounds like:
CDE  FGAB  CDE  FGABCBAGF EDC BAGF EDC

Where the spaces are is where it sounds like a hiccup.

Has anyone experienced this problem?

My coach is Dr. Thomas Mark, author of "What Every Pianist Needs To Know About the Body."  In his universally accepted "Handbook" (his term, not mine), he does not address thumb under or thumb over.

However, as a personal student of this coach, I asked him how to play a scale.  He replied that after one reaches the third finger (or fourth), they should simply gently raise the shoulder (to move one to the next set of notes) and then go on from there.

Under no circumstances should a pianist render the thumb under or over.  A better way to think about it is to play the notes in clusters (in part, and then to the first note of the next one), which Rachmaninoff taught, and I have talked about before.

 

[sumpianodude]

https://fundamentals-of-piano-practice.readthedocs.org/en/latest/chapter1/ch1_topics/III.5.html
I forgot to add this helpful link to the original post.

That is what I have been trying to do. Except when I do It the accents go all over the place(When I finish playing a "cluster" and move to the next, the first note is really accented), and all of the problems above appear

[brogers70]

I also read that bit of Chang's book and wondered about it. I am not entirely sure, but I think he is trying to correct the following problem. If you have been told to slide your thumb under your palm while doing scales, and if you take that to an extreme, as you might, if you are a relative beginner playing scales slowly and aiming for a legato, and not adjusting your wrist and forearm as you go, then "thumb under" could be a very inefficient way to play scales.

I expect that if you aim to hard to reproduce what Chang describes as "thumb over" you could also end up with tense, inefficient scales. I just stopped worrying about it and worked on keeping my wrist loose. On an ascending scale in the RH, your wrist will go out to the right a little bit, reducing the distance your thumb has to go under your palm. Also my teacher kept telling me to "lead with the arm" which basically means to keep your arm moving smoothly in the direction of your scale. As you get relaxed, and your scales get faster, there's less and less an aspect of "thumb under" or "thumb over" to them.

This sort of thing is notoriously difficult to describe in words, but a good teacher giving you feedback as you work on it makes al the difference in the world.

[louispodesta]

https://fundamentals-of-piano-practice.readthedocs.org/en/latest/chapter1/ch1_topics/III.5.html
I forgot to add this helpful link to the original post.

That is what I have been trying to do. Except when I do It the accents go all over the place(When I finish playing a "cluster" and move to the next, the first note is really accented), and all of the problems above appear

As we of Italian heritage are known to say:  "keep your pants on."  This is a no sweat solution.

So, what your precious source has not specified, is the following, the first of which was taught to me by friend at UNT who does not want me to use his name:  1)  you play in clusters (his term is "rip it") and then you do it with natural and full arm weight, and then 2) you do the same without.

Secondly, then you practice the clusters ending on the fourth or fifth finger, in succession, e.g. rip it 1-3 and then 1-4, or vice versa, depending on the particular passage.  Next, you play it 1-3,1 and the 1-4,1, always ending on the thumb.

Do it both ways until it gets smooth.  However, if you haven't mastered the soft staccato that I talked about in earlier posts, then this will not get you there.  As Earl Wild points out in his book, if you cannot play from the surface of the key, while resting on the key, all the speed in the world will not result in even accurate playing.