playing v. immitating

[keitokyun]

So... yesterday I took a friend of mine, who was self taught at the piano to the point in which he could play most of Chopin's etudes, to a piano teacher who graduated NYU with a phd in piano performance. She said to my friend something that shocked me, and then caused my friend to break down, "You don't know how to play the piano... you're just imitating the music you hear." While, on the other hand, she said to me, as someone who can hardly play Chopin etude 10/12, that i know how to play.

What did she mean by this?

[chopinlover01]

She's probably right, to be honest.
If you're self taught, you have little to no formal training; you don't get the proper foundation of why people interpret the things the way they do, you've just heard it enough to get used to it.
Imagine it like this; you grow up in an English speaking country without ever learning the language.
You can speak it fluently enough to converse with bankers and politicians (a high level of skill, just as your friend seems to have), but you only know the words and things because you've heard them; you haven't ever gone to break down why it is that in English, unlike most other languages, we have our adjectives before our nouns; ie the black cat, whereas in French it comes after; "le chat noir".
In the same manner, your friend only knows how it should sound; not why it should sound that way.

[yewtree]

Very interesting.
Though he has probably reached a good standard , does it mean that as a consequence of imitation and playing as it should sound and not  why it should sound that way, that there is no emotion injected into the music , therefore just plays mechanically, like a music box ?

[hardy_practice]

Much of the music you play is played by the body not the mind.  If you're imitating you're only playing with the mind.  Allowing the body to do its thing usually takes a level of instruction.

[kawai_cs]

I have no idea what she meant. It sounds like very general b..s...t. to me.
Probably your friend can play the etudes only very poorly? Moreover, probably your teacher is a b...ch.
Why didn't you ask her what she meant?

[coda_colossale]

If he can actually play the etudes up to a good standart, she was talking nonsense.

[dcstudio]

If he can actually play the etudes up to a good standart, she was talking nonsense.

if he could play the Chopin etudes well... the teacher would not have accused him of imitating the music he heard.   Self-taught up to the etudes? being able to mash through an etude doesn't mean he's at the etude level.   It could mean he started playing 6 months ago and began with the etudes... I have seen them try...lol. 

[hardy_practice]

There are players that go to youtube first thing and think they are listening to 'the piece' so for them copying is how it's done.  In realitty 'the piece' only exists as  you play it.   How you play it is a major component of that.  There is no big other!

[lostinidlewonder]

So... yesterday I took a friend of mine, who was self taught at the piano to the point in which he could play most of Chopin's etudes, to a piano teacher who graduated NYU with a phd in piano performance. She said to my friend something that shocked me, and then caused my friend to break down, "You don't know how to play the piano... you're just imitating the music you hear." While, on the other hand, she said to me, as someone who can hardly play Chopin etude 10/12, that i know how to play.

What did she mean by this?

Sorry but this teacher sounds like a biitch. If someone played all Chopin études it would take a long time to listen to it so this teacher probably only made up her mind listening to very little. To get to know how good someone is is not found out on the first time meeting them, if this teacher thinks she can appraise every single aspect of someone with a single meeting then she obvious has no idea the complexity of what to look for. I'd run away from this teacher because putting someone down clearly shows ineffective teaching skills.

[hardy_practice]

She might be a biyach but never your biyach!  I agree with her.

[briansaddleback]

This world is astray. People disrespect each other. One quickly takes up all the etudes and proclaims she honors them with her playing when she is actually disrespecting others who put hard work into properly learning them. And the other side, a critique which in some way is true, but the at the heart of it was perhaps malicious and intended to break down not build her up.

And for the OP, was it a sincere post? Or just a way to boast your way into fishing for some cred over your friend by putting her down.


What's up world?

[lostinidlewonder]

"Sugar catches more flies than vinegar" and a teacher should always inspire and give direction. If I meet one who is negative and puts students down I am looking at someone who is a terrible destructive teacher. They ruin the aspirations and dreams of students. It is not about being realistic unless the student has wild imaginations or delusions, but to simply say "you don't know how to play the piano...." even if that is supposed to be disguised as some zen Buddhist wise saying, it is a piece of crap.

Im sorry but I've never in my life met a good teacher who puts students down, the best in the world all inspire and direct and don't waste time with bringing people down.

[iansinclair]

is it, perhaps, that she is right?  The real question is whether your friend -- and I'm not suggesting that he or she can't play the etudes, and make them sound wonderful -- can learn to play anything else from the music itself.

It is one thing to have learned a specific action by rote -- whether it is playing the piano or, perhaps, flying an airplane -- and a very different thing to be able to extend that rote learning to something beyond.

The teacher might have put things a bit more diplomatically, but that is an art that few have mastered.  But I just wonder...

As a test, how about having your friend play some Bach -- from the music, without listening to it.

[outin]

"Sugar catches more flies than vinegar" and a teacher should always inspire and give direction. If I meet one who is negative and puts students down I am looking at someone who is a terrible destructive teacher. They ruin the aspirations and dreams of students. It is not about being realistic unless the student has wild imaginations or delusions, but to simply say "you don't know how to play the piano...." even if that is supposed to be disguised as some zen Buddhist wise saying, it is a piece of crap.

Im sorry but I've never in my life met a good teacher who puts students down, the best in the world all inspire and direct and don't waste time with bringing people down.

I agree on the principle, but first, we do not know how exactly she said it. My teacher said something similar on my trial lesson (referring to my lack of proper technique) and while it may have hurt my ego, I did appreciate the honesty. She was never mean, just direct. Such directness is quite acceptable in my culture. It is usually not in some others. US comes to mind where you are supposed to smile and agree with people no matter how stupid they are (I know this is a hard  generalization...).

And secondly, this was not her student yet, was he? If someone comes to you and says "Hey, see how I can play this Chopin etude" and plays it like shi*t, should you go along with that or can you be brutally honest? I don't think it has nothing to do with how well this teacher teaches her own students.

[pencilart3]

Imitating is playing.

[lostinidlewonder]

I agree on the principle, but first, we do not know how exactly she said it.

I think it's rather clear that it was said with great negativity and no consult as to how to work upon it since if you read the op they say they themselves were "shocked" their friend "broke down". So I'm sorry no matter what credentials, a teacher like this is worth their weight in dog crap.

Yes I agree to be direct but it is all within the work to be done and not fuelled by harsh critique with zero constructive direction.

[chopinlover01]

Imitating is playing.

Yes; and it's playing that is unoriginal, boring, and not worth hearing.

[hardy_practice]

Imitating is playing.

No, it's the higest form of flattery - that's all.

[dcstudio]

Remember the really arrogant member a few months back who posted 12 measures of a Chopin etude... had just started playing less than a year ago--and smugly argued with me about 6/8 vs 3/4... telling me I was right "in theory"  ?-- to a beginning pianist that little 12 second example is enough for them to proclaim..."he is self-taught up to the etudes."   If the teacher heard those 12 seconds she would say... "you are not playing, just imitating."   She would be absolutely right, too.  She's not a pregnant dog... she's just tired of people coming in and playing their disgraceful renditions of something they learned by watching another bad pianist on YT...   She's tired of adolescents telling her that they are ready for the Emperor concerto because they figured out Fur Elise---(only the beginning, of course)--and then being accused of holding the student back.

of course... I am only speculating...  maybe she's just so jealous and afraid of the sheer talent that self-taught pianist displayed that she had to say something mean.   Some teachers really are that evil...   lol.

[lostinidlewonder]

I think you are trying hard to find some sense in this idiotic teachers approach but I don't think there is any hope. Unless the two students are delusional and the op is making a story up, both of them were left with a bad reaction to the teachers response. You don't need piano skill, it's just normal human common sense and courtesy to know that you do not just go around telling people they can't do something, who do you think you are to do that? These teachers who are negative are failures, if they were very successful they would not spit poison at those who aspire.

[pencilart3]

If somebody were to perfectly, perfectly imitate Rafal Blechacz in Chopin's preuldes, I would be very interested.

[adodd81802]

We have to consider that somebody that can play something of a higher level may not be able to play it better then a pianist of an easier piece and so the overall performance may not be as believable as that of a pianist playing something easier with a lot more truth.

I consider myself more of an imitator with no shame. 

[dcstudio]

I think you are trying hard to find some sense in this idiotic teachers approach but I don't think there is any hope. Unless the two students are delusional and the op is making a story up, both of them were left with a bad reaction to the teachers response. You don't need piano skill, it's just normal human common sense and courtesy to know that you do not just go around telling people they can't do something, who do you think you are to do that? These teachers who are negative are failures, if they were very successful they would not spit poison at those who aspire.

I have used this phrase but it was not to be condescending at all.  Trying to explain to a student why they should learn to read music because thus far they only play by ear...  I will say something like-- don't just imitate what you hear learn to read the music, too.

maybe... this is what she meant.   

[lostinidlewonder]

I'm sure you care a great deal for your students dcstudio. Sure we may be critical but we at the same time offer a path, a solution, excitement to improve etc. This silly teacher described at the start has not offered any solution at all after being critical and left the students feeling down. The praise the teacher also gave left the student confused so it seems any advice is useless so far! Perhaps this is a good lesson for students to realise they should not be afraid to ask questions, get their teachers to elaborate if you feel it's all a bit too vague or confusing.

[jimroof]

First, did she hear your friend play anything?

If not, then your teacher was somehow threatened by the idea that someone could teach themselves something that SHOULD be the purview of the select, the few, the REAL pianists...

Frankly, one can take piano lessons for decades on end and STILL not know much about music.  Good teachers will not let this happen, but there are a lot of teachers who drill in the skills and build technique, but whose students play like well oiled machines instead of flesh and blood.

I think it is totally plausible that one could teach themselves an instrument and be an incredibly gifted and creative musician, full of life and energy, though they might be playing the wrong style of mordent, which of course would then mean there is not an ounce of music in their soul...   

[dcstudio]

First, did she hear your friend play anything?

If not, then your teacher was somehow threatened by the idea that someone could teach themselves something that SHOULD be the purview of the select, the few, the REAL pianists...

wow... you have had some really bad teachers...  that makes me sad.   I specialize in teaching people who have already progressed to a certain level on their own.   I am overjoyed to meet people like this...because they are the REAL PIANISTS...  IMO.  They are dedicated and diligent with their practice time...they ask GREAT questions... and they are my favorite students (sometimes..lol)  they love to talk about music and they want to know everything.. why on Earth would I feel threatened by them?

I acknowledge here that I was not your teacher... but I am really curious as to how you perceived that the teacher was somehow "threatened."     what happened that made you think piano teachers are afraid of students who are good players without ever having taken a lesson?


if we could just hear the etude played by this self-taught student--I am sure it would end this whole thread rather abruptly.  Maybe if we heard from the teacher as to what happened...all we are getting is one side.

we do not have enough information to condemn the teacher...or the student.   We certainly don't have enough information to speculate as to the feelings of the teacher...

[lostinidlewonder]

we do not have enough information to condemn the teacher...or the student.   We certainly don't have enough information to speculate as to the feelings of the teacher...

You might not have enough info but i think it's as clear as day, if you are told someone "broke down" this means they are feeling super emotionally negative. It's a bad situation. A stupid teacher.

[dcstudio]

You might not have enough info but i think it's as clear as day, if you are told someone "broke down" this means they are feeling super emotionally negative. It's a bad situation. A stupid teacher.

I find your emotional response to this quite puzzling... I thought you were a piano teacher?

 Why was this self-taught student in the studio with her friend?  Did she have an appointment or did she just come in at the end of her friend's lesson?  What exactly was said...and why was the self-taught student playing the piano for this teacher?  Did the teacher invite this person to play?  Did the OP hear what the teacher said--or only her friend's account of it. Are we getting upset over third hand information?  How exactly did this teacher tell the OP he/she was a better pianist? were they both in the room and the teacher just pointed at the OP and said "you're better?"   no bold letter quote.  


come on guys the OP has made 15 posts...

[lostinidlewonder]

I'm sorry there is no tone of voice when posting but I'm just responding to a situation that has nothing to do with me so there is little emotional response. Yes I am a teacher and that is why I am much against negative teaching, teachers can literally crush a students aspiration or help them shine, this I do take serious since it is my profession but it's only on a professional level not personal. I guess on a personal level I believe we all should support our fellow man and woman, boy and girl achieve and succeed though many don't do this and are selfish.

 I dont think it matters how the student played it doesn't even come into consideration. This teacher left both keitokyun and their friend confused and feeling negative which in terms of help is pointless, it is anti help! This to me is an obvious sign of failure in this teacher approach to clients (as the op said they went to see this teacher specifically). If the teacher then gave some advice then the students wouldn't feel so bad but instead be revitalised as they know what to work on to improve. No normal person thinks they can do it all and we all know we can improve somewhere but no one wants to be simply told you can't do something and just leave it at that.

[irrational]

I can understand what she meant.
I have a good ear, very good memory and a high capability of learning a new skill.

I taught myself about 22 years ago.
Some of my "repertoire" was Complete Beethoven Op.27/2, movements from Op. 10/3, Op. 13, Bagatelle Op. 126/4, Chopin Preludes 4,6,15 and 1 or 2 other things I can't remember.
I thought they all sounded pretty close to the recording I heard.

Then I stopped for about 12 years and started proper lessons 5 years ago.
I can now play fewer things, but the music in them is so much better.
I understand the music better. The tiny changes in warmth and colour make a HUGE difference in how the music sounds.

But even now, when I think a piece I play is good, my teacher will still say no, show me the technique, make me play a different way and the difference is immediately audibly evident to my more trained ear.

I would certainly not write off her comment. Even my teacher who was a concert pianist winning many local competitions (And her students as well), said that she has attended masterclasses where the teacher hears something where she can't. But 30 minutes later the student's piece sounds better. So I believe there are just levels of musical accuity that are much higher than one would normally think of and stringing together all the sounds a piano can make in the right way to be musically significant is not as easy.

And judging by the amount of nasty criticism often levelled at the top pianists, most people know it.

[dcstudio]

I'm sorry there is no tone of voice when posting but I'm just responding to a situation that has nothing to do with me so there is little emotional response. Yes I am a teacher and that is why I am much against negative teaching, teachers can literally crush a students aspiration or help them shine, this I do take serious since it is my profession but it's only on a professional level not personal. I guess on a personal level I believe we all should support our fellow man and woman, boy and girl achieve and succeed though many don't do this and are selfish.

 I dont think it matters how the student played it doesn't even come into consideration. This teacher left both keitokyun and their friend confused and feeling negative which in terms of help is pointless, it is anti help! This to me is an obvious sign of failure in this teacher approach to clients (as the op said they went to see this teacher specifically). If the teacher then gave some advice then the students wouldn't feel so bad but instead be revitalised as they know what to work on to improve. No normal person thinks they can do it all and we all know we can improve somewhere but no one wants to be simply told you can't do something and just leave it at that.

well of course not.

but swas this person a client? we don't know.  I am not saying that if the assumed circumstances are correct that the teacher wasn't horrible... indeed--she was.   I am saying that the circumstances are odd...   

so if someone walked into your studio at the end of their friends lesson and boasted about how much they had taught themselves then sat down, uninvited, and started murdering a Chopin etude...and it's a Friday afternoon... you would be sweet and kind?   please...lol.  You would tell them to leave at the very least... encouraging them to stop by and sign up for lessons, no doubt, but you wouldn't just start teaching someone because they walk in and start playing. 

I am not saying this is what happened here... but it's every bit as likely as this teacher just choosing that person to dump on because she was threatened by his awesomeness...

there are two sides... and this wasn't her student.   At least the OP has made no mention of it...

I would say the teacher meant... "sign up for lessons if you want my opinion, because I want to go home."

[lostinidlewonder]

I still dont think it matters if it's a student stranger whatever playing for this teacher, this teacher agreed to listen and pass judgement. All good teachers should have it instilled within them to give advice and promote learning not go around spitting harsh critique in people's face. It don't matter how good or bad if it was in a professional setting or not as a teacher you would not bring down people who play for you. I have several times depressed students by showing them how much work they need to get through to improve but if that depresses them are they really serious to improve? The thing is you offer constructive critique and suggestions to improve that is good stuff, not just statements that offer no help, why would one be a teacher if you do this!

[dcstudio]

I still dont think it matters if it's a student stranger whatever playing for this teacher, this teacher agreed to listen and pass judgment.  

nowhere is it even implied that this teacher agreed to anything--you are assuming way too much.  If the student "broke down" it may have been a diva fit...kids do that sometimes... even those who don't play the piano.  


as a teacher have you never experienced a self-taught teen with an attitude?  they come through here all the time.  Maybe you are right...and this kid really has taught himself most of the Chopin etudes--(have YOU ever seen that? I haven't and I am at 22 years teaching).  IF he came in and he had been invited and he played and he was a potential student...the teacher has NO motive to be so rude.  You are assuming a tone of voice with this teacher that may not be there.   She didn't say "you can't" play -- she said you don't know how.   the whole story sounds kind of fishy...  where is the intent?  her behavior makes no sense unless...with the Phd from NYU... she really is threatened by a self-taught student and just had to cut him down...  pretty shallow behavior for one so well-educated.

If she did what they said she did it's terrible.. In no way am I condoning that kind of behavior--  I just don't think the story makes sense that's all.          

  How can anyone possibly know what this teacher meant                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

[lostinidlewonder]

nowhere is it even implied that this teacher agreed to anything--you are assuming way too much.

She gave a comment which was quoted in the opening post so she agreed to listen and make a judgement by the looks of it, seems obvious to me at least. But of course it's ok if you see it as not!

....Maybe you are right...and this kid really has taught himself most of the Chopin etudes--(have YOU ever seen that? I haven't and I am at 22 years teaching).  IF he came in and he had been invited and he played and he was a potential student...the teacher has NO motive to be so rude.  You are assuming a tone of voice with this teacher that may not be there.   She didn't say "you can't" play -- she said you don't know how.   the whole story sounds kind of fishy...  where is the intent?  her behavior makes no sense unless...with the Phd from NYU... she really is threatened by a self-taught student and just had to cut him down...  pretty shallow behavior for one so well-educated.

Maybe I'm not clear enough, I don't have any idea how good or bad the student played that is irrelevant in my mind. The quote from the teacher however says a great deal to me and that to me sounds just plain nasty and given the reaction of the two students that leaves me with enough evidence that this teacher is rather sour. Good teachers just encourage without even trying, they leave all students they encounter with inspiration, they don't go about telling people they can't play.

[dcstudio]

I don't know if she agreed to pass judgment... but you seem pretty willing to pass your own judgment on this teacher.  You have pretty much condemned her on third hand info in a post by a newbie.   I need a bit more information... until then I will say..  I have no idea what the teacher meant.

[lostinidlewonder]

What's wrong with me passing judgement? It's ok if you want to tip toe around the issue but I have a strong opinion.

[dcstudio]

What's wrong with me passing judgement? It's ok if you want to tip toe around the issue but I have a strong opinion.

wow.. so all somebody has to do is say... "she told me I didn't know how to play... that I was just imitating what I heard"   and cry... and automatically the teacher is "hopeless"

that's all you need to judge someone's entire ability as a teacher.

this just doesn't make sense... 

I get the feeling this is about you and you do know this teacher.     that's my judgment.

[jimroof]

wow... you have had some really bad teachers...  that makes me sad.   I specialize in teaching people who have already progressed to a certain level on their own.   I am overjoyed to meet people like this...because they are the REAL PIANISTS...  IMO.  They are dedicated and diligent with their practice time...they ask GREAT questions... and they are my favorite students (sometimes..lol)  they love to talk about music and they want to know everything.. why on Earth would I feel threatened by them?

I acknowledge here that I was not your teacher... but I am really curious as to how you perceived that the teacher was somehow "threatened."     what happened that made you think piano teachers are afraid of students who are good players without ever having taken a lesson?


if we could just hear the etude played by this self-taught student--I am sure it would end this whole thread rather abruptly.  Maybe if we heard from the teacher as to what happened...all we are getting is one side.

we do not have enough information to condemn the teacher...or the student.   We certainly don't have enough information to speculate as to the feelings of the teacher...

My comment was conditional.  IF the teacher heard that etude(s) then there are two things that could have happened, as I see it.  First, the etude stunk to high heavens, in which case the teacher could take pity or be a teacher and offer some advice for better methods of practice.  Second, the etude was quite good and, since the player was self-taught, the teacher labeled the player as just being an imitator.  Now, WHY would a teacher call someone who played a very good rendition of a difficult Chopin Etude and imitator?  That is not exactly an objective statement, but is more subjective.  I may be struggling to explain my sense for this, but such a comment seems born from a sense of insecurity.  It is a vague insult that cannot be proven, but is easily used to dismiss the accomplishments of someone who did not take the 'accepted' path to success.

As for your comment about my having had some bad piano teachers... I am completely unable to extract any reason from my first post that would lead anyone to think that. 

To the contrary, I would think someone who had excellent guidance at the piano would be more qualified to spot a hack when they see one.  A good teacher does not disparage a student.  This teacher DID.  Therefore... at least in this instance, with the information we have at hand presently, the teacher was not teaching when this comment was made, but was just insulting someone for reasons that, admittedly, are speculative.

[lostinidlewonder]

wow.. so all somebody has to do is say... "she told me I didn't know how to play... that I was just imitating what I heard"   and cry... and automatically the teacher is "hopeless"

that's all you need to judge someone's entire ability as a teacher.

this just doesn't make sense...  

I get the feeling this is about you and you do know this teacher.    that's my judgment.

Yeah ok whatever. Just cos it don't make sense to you don't mean jack. You defending the idiotic teacher is judgement on your behalf since you don't care about the feelings of students, oh but that makes sense right because you think its ok lol. If you were a considerate teacher dcstudio you would realise how important it is to give encouragement to students ALWAYS, constructive critique not subjective bullshit answers. As teachers we should be servants to our students if one doesn't like this then don't be a teacher, I can't stand arrogant teachers.

[kawai_cs]

I am sure a person who can imitate one Chopin etude DECENTLY - can play the piano.
One of my teachers always recommends me recordings of a new piece I am learning, mostly Horowitz's or de Larrocha's so I think he would not do it if there was  something wrong with trying to imitate the best pianists' playing.
For me it is also difficult to believe that a piano teacher would say something like this that brings a person down and does not give any constructive judgment. In my experience good teachers do not generalize like this. They will tell you that you don't have this or that skill but not tell you: you cannot play! That's ridiculous and that is why I think this story is actually made up.

[lostinidlewonder]

My comment was conditional.  IF the teacher heard that etude(s) then there are two things that could have happened, as I see it.  First, the etude stunk to high heavens, in which case the teacher could take pity or be a teacher and offer some advice for better methods of practice.  Second, the etude was quite good and, since the player was self-taught, the teacher labeled the player as just being an imitator.  Now, WHY would a teacher call someone who played a very good rendition of a difficult Chopin Etude and imitator?  That is not exactly an objective statement, but is more subjective.

Exactly. It doesn't matter what scenario the teachers comments to these students was inappropriate both the praise but more so the harsh critique.

....I would think someone who had excellent guidance at the piano would be more qualified to spot a hack when they see one.  A good teacher does not disparage a student.  This teacher DID.  Therefore... at least in this instance, with the information we have at hand presently, the teacher was not teaching when this comment was made, but was just insulting someone for reasons that, admittedly, are speculative.

Well I agree with everything you state here jimroof. A teacher by definition guides and assists students and a generous one will do so with whoever comes before them. One that puts students down really should be kicked out of their job, arrogant assholes.

[dcstudio]

Yeah ok whatever. Just cos it don't make sense to you don't mean jack. You defending the idiotic teacher is judgement on your behalf since you don't care about the feelings of students, oh but that makes sense right because you think its ok lol. If you were a considerate teacher dcstudio you would realise how important it is to give encouragement to students ALWAYS, constructive critique not subjective bullshit answers. As teachers we should be servants to our students if one doesn't like this then don't be a teacher, I can't stand arrogant teachers.

I just don't understand why questioning the details of this very vague story is the same as defending the teacher in your mind.   Why you are perceiving it as an attack and reacting so rudely.   I have not spoken to you this way...   and I don't deserve this from you.   I don't know what happened to you as a student and who this "arrogant teacher" was but you are not presenting yourself in a very professional way right now.   You are being rather arrogant...telling me I don't care about my students---trying to shift the focus away from the fact that you don't have enough information to be this emotionally charged...   you are mad about something that happened to you and using this portal to vent it out.   Some teacher must have said something similar to you...  I have been doing this a long time...you are reacting completely from a student perspective... odd for a teacher...

 --we are not getting the whole story...that much I am sure of.

[lostinidlewonder]

It's ok dcstudio take a deep breath no one is after you, quit making a storm in a teacup. I am responding to how teachers should behave, they should not leave students confused and upset which requires no in depth details if the op clearly has admitted the experience left them both feeling bad. If you think you need more details then fine but I wonder what story you need for a teacher to be allowed to leave students feeling bad?

If you were a caring/considerate teacher you would not forgive any situation where the teacher leaves a student feeling devastated. If you think there are situations where this ok you are not what I classify as a caring teacher.

[dcstudio]

arrogant assholes.

?

Yeah ok whatever. Just cos it don't make sense to you don't mean jack. You defending the idiotic teacher is judgement on your behalf since you don't care about the feelings of students, oh but that makes sense right because you think its ok lol. If you were a considerate teacher dcstudio you would realise how important it is to give encouragement to students ALWAYS, constructive critique not subjective bullshit answers. As teachers we should be servants to our students if one doesn't like this then don't be a teacher, I can't stand arrogant teachers.

I am quite sure it is you who is guilty of overreaction.  

It's ok dcstudio take a deep breath no one is after you, quit making a storm in a teacup. I am responding to how teachers should behave, they should not leave students confused and upset which requires no in depth details if the op clearly has admitted the experience left them both feeling bad. If you think you need more details then fine but I wonder what story you need for a teacher to be allowed to leave students feeling bad?

If you were a caring/considerate teacher you would not forgive any situation where the teacher leaves a student feeling devastated. If you think there are situations where this ok you are not what I classify as a caring teacher.

LOL    such an amateur move... blame shifting.    You accuse me of this... yet my posts have been quite benign while your posts clearly reflect your disrespectful and dare  I say abusive attitude.   Give it up young man...I've been married for 19 years--when it comes to manipulation ..lol...trust me you are an amateur.




Wow, you will say anything to throw the focus away from this odd story and your more than odd emotional reaction to it.. lets not even mention that you're not in any way reacting like a piano teacher...your behavior is far more like that of a disgruntled student.

my theory is that you and the OP are one in the same (either spiritually or actually) and you are no teacher.  You know this teacher from NYU and she has obviously wounded your ego--you just needed to dis this person and you wanted company--whether or not the incident in question even occurred... I will leave that to the court of public opinion.

a lot of old-timers claim that it's their teacher's fault that after x amount of lessons they are still unable to play...  you can continue to blame your teacher and be miserable because you can't play as well as you think you should--and end up one of the casualties....  or you can just learn to play.  The choice is yours... throwing this temper-tantrum while you blame others isn't getting you anywhere.

[lostinidlewonder]

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[lostinidlewonder]

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[lostinidlewonder]

.. lol stupid forum bug

[dcstudio]

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[lostinidlewonder]

Not my fault you cannot read IF THEN statements correctly. Read your post to me before you think I went rude, it was you who started to make GUESSES about me personally, if you don't like my response disregarding your personal comments about me and then providing an IF THEN statement that's your own problem no one else's. Maybe don't start to try to make things personal in the first place honey.

[chopinlover01]

Hate to have to act as peacekeeper, but as I understand it, he was issuing a conditional statement.
IF _______ is proven to be true (that this teacher actually did what she did in exactly the manner described in the OP) then ____ (in this case, she's a raging c**t who needs an ego check). You, DC, were speculating that you don't believe this to be the case (for quite reasonable reasons, too!). However, what you two are saying isn't mutually exclusive.
The theory of yours, less so
Anyways, could we actually continue the initial discussion of imitation vs playing? I'm rather too tired for personal attack bs today.. It's Christmas, for God's sake. Eat, drink, and make merry, for tomorrow we may surely die.