Memorising a piece problem

[handz]

Hello
I know there is a lot to be found about this topic but I wanted to ask here.
I am currently learning Scriabins prelude op 11 no 10 - c sharp minor.
I can play it, but I am still forgotting some parts, Im not super duper in theory, I cant see many standard chords there to use as anchor points so I play it mostly from muscle memory and definitely learning it HS does not work for this piece for me.
Anyone have some tip for such piece - it is short but the structure is quite specific I think, hands almost always plays 2 note figures.

thank you

[jimroof]

I remember playing a Scriabin Etude... Opus 8, #12.  It was all over the place and in D# minor.  Every other measure was full of double sharps.  Theory?  I did not even try.  I succeeded by a lot of practice and just getting it into my 'ear' as well as my hands. 

Your hands will eventually learn what to do with what your mind is anticipating in the music.  When you used the term 'muscle memory' I think you hit the key, but that muscle memory needs to be aided by your ability to know the piece intimately in your 'mind's ear'.

[amytsuda]

I haven't done Op 11 No 10, but have done Op 11 No 11. It wasn't difficult to memorize, but somehow, I did experience keeping going to a wrong chord here and there, due to the habits of anchor points from other composers. I think only way is just really memorizing each measure by measure and putting them together until it becomes habits to go to the right chords.

I've been having a real trouble to memorize Fugue from Le Tombeau Cuperin. I tried to use theories, etc, but couldn't do it. I finally spent 3 weeks, every day memorizing a few measures and putting them together like Zigzaw puzzle, and I succeeded. It's just 3 pages, and I feel PTSD. But I did.

[kawai_cs]

I feel PTSD. But I did.

What it is? I suppose it is not a good feeling?

[handz]

I finally made it, it is really just drill, playing it again and again, but Im not sure how long I will hold it when not playing it for some time 

[pianotv]

When I have trouble memorizing, I go back and see if I'm covering all my bases...

-intellectual memory (finding anchor points and making sense of chords and stuff, which you said you've done)
-muscle memory
-visual memory (this one is hard but REALLY useful) - can you picture the sheet music in your head, to the degree you could write it down? That's how I have gotten through weird Rachmaninoff music!
-aural memory (hearing the tune in your head)

[handz]

When I have trouble memorizing, I go back and see if I'm covering all my bases...

-intellectual memory (finding anchor points and making sense of chords and stuff, which you said you've done)
-muscle memory
-visual memory (this one is hard but REALLY useful) - can you picture the sheet music in your head, to the degree you could write it down? That's how I have gotten through weird Rachmaninoff music!
-aural memory (hearing the tune in your head)

Good reply, thank you!

actually - aural memory is not a problem for me, I usually not have problem to hear whole piece in head after one two listens (longer pieces more) but then of course there is that frustration when you hear what you want to play but do not know which key it is haha..

muscle memory - this one is sooo tricky, first piece I learned was Nocturne op9 no2  and I learned mostly by muscle memory, I can play it but if I start to think about it in some parts, Im lost.

visual memory - this one is quite useful, I have some pieces of sheet music in my head which is really helpful.

intellectual memory - this one is somehow hardest I would say, to really know that "now i play this note and this note, some variant of some chord" etc,  this is actually tricky, especially Im finding that Scriabin for example not uses so many  standard chords.

[dratinistar]

I'm actually memorizing a semi-atonal piece by Helps right now And I can definitely say it's hard work but I've found a successful way to memorize is to first break into larger sections based on the phrases(I chose about 10 bars in my helps piece for reference). Each day you will memorize a section in addition to re-memorizing the previous sections (e.g. Day 1 section 1, Day 2 section 1+2 etc). The way I memorize is first by finding some reference points but in terms of difficult to analyze pieces I just have to tough it out and memorize the keys I'm playing on the keyboard. This is different than muscle memory because if you remember the sequences you should be able to play out lines with a single finger or just stare at the keyboard and visualize how it looks there without actually playing. I find this the most SECURE way to memorize even more so than visualizing the score because that takes two steps. I used to have so many issues with memory slips during performances, but now I've nearly eliminated them(don't wanna jinx it) by making sure I can visualize myself playing the entire piece front to back in my head.

Good luck👌🏻 am new to this site hope I helped and check out my post

[pianotv]

especially Im finding that Scriabin for example not uses so many  standard chords.

Yuuup, good ol' atonal music!