Re-Learning to Play

[joyeux]

Hi. I just signed up to pianostreet. Here's a little bit about me. I started lessons when I was six years old and took classical piano and theory lessons for the next 11 years. I was being groomed to be a piano major in college, but I took a different path (unfortunately).

I recently bought a piano and I'm starting to play again after decades (literally) of not putting my hands on a piano. I'm surprised at how quickly it's coming back, but on the other hand, I'm a little frustrated. But I love love love playing piano again!

The first piece I decided to re-learn was Für Elise. I've been playing it for several weeks now, several times a day, but even though I re-memorized it almost immediately, I still stumble through the more challenging parts. Sometimes I play it well, but sometimes I get all tripped up. And although I practice the fast part over and over and over (even the dog gets tired of hearing it), I just don't seem to be getting any faster or cleaner. I feel like I've hit a wall and I'll never get any better no matter how many times I play it.

I'm also doing Hanon and Kohler exercises and started working on a couple of Kuhlau pieces because they're fun and challenging.

How do I get past this wall? Do I have to seek out a piano teacher?

[indianajo]

If you still remember the correct posture and physical tricks like rolling the wrist on crossovers and all that, then having a teacher is not very important IMHO.
You will have lost muscle mass and tone over the years.  Exercises are good for general conditioning.  If you're like everybody else, muscles on fingers 3,4,5 will be lower strength than 1,2 especially on the subordinate hand.  It should take some months or even a year to get that muscle built back up.  
I took a break of 16 years between my last piano lesson and purchasing a new piano to go in my new house.  Rather than Hanon or Czerny, I took of on learning Scott Joplin rags.  With all that octave work, these put serious stress on the outer fingers.  I still do three of these every night after dinner, to keep up my strength.  
I've found in my late 50's and 60's, the accuracy of the position controlled by the "feel' of position, is no longer consistant.  I was trained by my teacher to look at the "audience", not my hands.  I was fine with not looking age 8 to 16.  The feel is no longer consistant, and I've compensated by looking at my hands these days to get visual feedback.  
On fur Elise, remember, a mistake repeated twice forms as solid a memory as a correct movement repeated twice.  If you're making mistakes SLOW DOWN.  The correct speed is the one where you make NO mistakes.  If you have to go to one hand alone to play absolutely correctly, do that.  Correct practice is the only kind of practice that causes no mistakes in the future,
As far as memory goes, I used to be deadly accurate.  Not anymore, I have to look at things. Oh, well, we can't all be Liszt.  I do have the 3 SJ rags down now after years of practice, but as a kid I used to memorize things in a month or two.  "Those were the days, my friend, we thought they would never end.. . ."   
Best of luck with your endeavors.  

[dcstudio]

OT:we'd sing and dance forever and a day
we live the life we choose
we fight and never lose
for we were young and sure to have our way

 

great song.


to the OP:  your journey sounds very similar to my own.  It will all come back--but those walls that you were struggling with before you stopped playing are still there right were you left them..

what happened to make you quit the first time?   if it was because of a humiliating performance, or a mean teacher, or something like that...  that will still be there, too.

but welcome to PS--you are not alone ---there are many many returning pianists around here who are more than happy to give advice...lol.

I would suggest a teacher in 6 months or so--when you are acutely aware of exactly where you need help.  For now just love your piano again... and be glad you can still play Fur Elise.  I would guess after 11 years you were well past that tune...

what piece were you working on when you quit?

[tenk]

I almost always recommend Bach for development, or re-development as in your case. Same ideas as above: slow practice, whatever it takes to not make mistakes, with the added bonus that proper Bach relies just as much on proper fingering as anything else.

On the idea of fingering, personally I've found that working through WTK and Goldberg Variations with careful study of the score and detailing the fingerings I want to use in the score (sometimes completely, if necessary) has done wonders for me. Not only does it help you get the fingering right the first time, every time, but I have also found it to help with memorization.

[dcstudio]

WTK and Goldberg

WTC... or do they spell clavier with a K in your country?

either way.. good advice.

[kawai_cs]

WTC... or do they spell clavier with a K in your country?

either way.. good advice.

They are probably German speaking - das Wohltemperierte Klavier

[briansaddleback]

The faster part in Fur elise is definitely tricky to learn correctly both in rhythm and notes but also musically. This piece is one of the more simpler melodies I have known to try to learn in the past but is musically more complex than one realizes.

Slow it down and work on it slowly. Slow. In rhythm. Study your movements, study the articulation to flesh out to make it work musically.



One hang up I have noticed by many generally (not specifically referring to the op) is that for 'easier' pieces like fur elise , they tend to think that these pieces must be learned quickly relatively to others. And if not, then they are labeled still a beginner or a level 5 or so forth.
They fear the label.
So they speed through these pieces half-baked and call it a day and go to more complex ones (and unfortunately, they reinvent the wheel at this next piece too, because one hasn't learned how to refine from the previous).

I say dont fear the label..work out the fur elise, make it your own, really set the foundation in it, refine it. It is ok to take 4 months to learn it.
If I were to spend time on it to learn it properly and refined performance standard, it would perhaps take me a couple of months? or three? That is why I dont invest my time in that piece or any specific piece now because I respect it enough to know that I will need to spend good time on it.


Anyways, back to the topic, go over it slowly.
What is one's definition of worked on it over and over ? I sometimes hear myself say I spent forever trying to learn these few measures (currently with 25-9 horrendous) and when I really look at it frankly, I spent only about a few times over a hundred repetitions of it. But were they quality practice study repetitions or just mindless repetitions?
Because mindless repetitions you can eventually learn something to a good degree but it is not efficient. It will take you forever then.
But a good few quality practice study repetitions? But how much is needed? Still 'few' in this instance in terms of classical music technique practice, few means several hundred times or repetition perhaps. Mileage may vary depending on the person.

Anyways, hope this helps. good luck.

[dcstudio]

They are probably German speaking - das Wohltemperierte Klavier

ya das ist richtig.   Danke

guten nacht

[joyeux]

Thank you for the welcome and great advice.

I didn't really "quit" piano. When I left home for college, I didn't have a piano to play. Then the years passed. Lots and lots of years. I'm in my 50s now. Over the years I've been playing guitar, but not piano.

I saved some of my old sheet music and music books, including Moonlight Sonata, Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C# Minor, and Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue, plus some Chopin, Mozart, etc. I guess I saved the pieces that were my favorites. I also saved easier pieces from my younger years, like By a Blue Lagoon. I have old sheet music for Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 that's "simplified," but still WAY too hard for me to play or read now.

I do need to slow down on those tricky parts of Fur Elise. I'm just being impatient.

My fingers definitely need to get in shape. I need to build strength! Especially in my left hand. I have trouble playing octaves. When I was young I could play them easily and play one note wider, even though my hands are small.

[dcstudio]

Thank you for the welcome and great advice.

I didn't really "quit" piano. When I left home for college, I didn't have a piano to play. Then the years passed. Lots and lots of years. I'm in my 50s now. Over the years I've been playing guitar, but not piano.

I saved some of my old sheet music and music books, including Moonlight Sonata, Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C# Minor, and Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue, plus some Chopin, Mozart, etc. I guess I saved the pieces that were my favorites. I also saved easier pieces from my younger years, like By a Blue Lagoon. I have old sheet music for Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 that's "simplified," but still WAY too hard for me to play or read now.

I do need to slow down on those tricky parts of Fur Elise. I'm just being impatient.

My fingers definitely need to get in shape. I need to build strength! Especially in my left hand. I have trouble playing octaves. When I was young I could play them easily and play one note wider, even though my hands are small.

 why didn't you become a music major is what I mean... was that someone else's plan for you?  you stated you were being groomed... which is an interesting choice of words.  You even stated in your original post that it was unfortunate that you didn't go through with it..  is this a regret you have always felt...or did it just recently emerge?. You also talked about loving the piano again...which is suggesting that you hated it at one point.  Is that true?  I have worked with so many returning adults and it's always interesting to hear why they want to come back and why they left in the first place. 

just curious.

[briansaddleback]

 why didn't you become a music major is what I mean... was that someone else's plan for you?  you stated you were being groomed... which is an interesting choice of words.  You even stated in your original post that it was unfortunate that you didn't go through with it..  is this a regret you have always felt...or did it just recently emerge?. You also talked about loving the piano again...which is suggesting that you hated it at one point.  Is that true?  I have worked with so many returning adults and it's always interesting to hear why they want to come back and why they left in the first place. 

just curious.

haha youre so curious. love it.

[joyeux]

 why didn't you become a music major is what I mean... was that someone else's plan for you?  you stated you were being groomed... which is an interesting choice of words.  You even stated in your original post that it was unfortunate that you didn't go through with it..  is this a regret you have always felt...or did it just recently emerge?. You also talked about loving the piano again...which is suggesting that you hated it at one point.  Is that true?  I have worked with so many returning adults and it's always interesting to hear why they want to come back and why they left in the first place. 

just curious.

I never stopped loving the piano. It just became out-of-site, out-of-mind.

Well, the only way I can really answer it is by saying I made a huge, dumb, teenager mistake by choosing a college based on which of my friends would be there. At 17 I was not equipped to make such a big decision. I didn't care about college...I just wanted to party with my friends. I had gone as far as auditioning for Eastman School of Music and did very well. But in the end, I chose partying.

Oh, such a waste. I didn't really start regretting it till I was in my 30s. I've always wanted a piano, but it didn't fit my lifestyle. So I picked up a guitar.

During that time I was playing music with bands as a guitarist. I love playing my Les Paul, and wrote many songs with it, but piano has always been deep in my heart.

Pianos are too expensive and we don't have room for one, so I never bothered to look. But a few months ago I went into a music store to buy an acoustic guitar and got mysteriously drawn to the keyboard section, where I learned about Yamaha digital keyboards (specifically the p115). I had only played an acoustic grand, so I was a bit leery. But what a surprise! It felt great to play. And the price is so much more affordable!

And so it goes,

[joyeux]

I just found more of my sheet music from my youth. Apparently, I was playing Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu Op. 66 when I was a teenager. And here I am, decades later, struggling with Fur Elise. 

[briansaddleback]

I just found more of my sheet music from my youth. Apparently, I was playing Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu Op. 66 when I was a teenager. And here I am, decades later, struggling with Fur Elise. 

If you were playing fantasie from your younger years , if you were playing it decently, I would say it won't take too long to get near your level quick for you if you put your mind to it. I wouldnt be surprised (if you put your mind to it) that in a year , on this board in December you will be asking questions on how to tackle a certain section of that fantasie piece , putting you right back into the same ballpark as when you were in your youth.

P115 I have played on it, it is a sturdy board and is a very decent action and is a quality learning keyboard for practice. You still will have to keep your fingers honest on an acoustic every week but still a good digital piano. I do all my bread and butter practice work on a digital (casio privia ) and then I go to keep my fingers in memory of how to play on an acoustic once a week at the local college .

I am very interested in classical guitar recently and have finally enrolled in a Classical Guitar I class at the college (along with my piano class) , I bought a nylon string guitar Yamaha GC102 for a good price and it is pretty decent (although I havent really played it yet) but after doing some extensive research and trying out other guitars I have decided to exchange that one in for a Cordoba C5 or Dolce model those are so beautiful and elegant sounding more than the yamaha which is sort of sprite sounding.

No reason or other to write the above, but just to share in the topic of re-learning to play.