Position of little finger in arpeggio on black keys

[vaaal88]

Dear Piano Students, I am a new member of this forum. I am going through the Dutilleux Sonata (almost finished, very rewarding task!). I have a strange little doubt about the position of the little finger on the black keys arpeggio. The way I have done it all my life, without much thinking about it, is not by using the tip of the finger, but some part around the middle phalanx (so, basically the shaft of the finger), by having the little finger completely exteneded (and using it like an hammer with the pivot on the knuckle).

This allowed my to be more "precise" in the sense that most likely I am going to hit the right key, even though losing a little be of "precision", in the sense of rithmic precision. However, I never paid much attention to it, since most of the time these arpeggios are played really fast and little rithmic imprecision is not noticed. Plus, when I try to use the tip of the finger, I am REALLY unprecise, and most of the time I do not hit the right key, but one of the white key around it. It is worth noticing that I have a really big hand, so to play the black key with the tip of the little finger, I have to curve it quite a lot, which may make me lose speed too.

So my question is: what do you think about this? Do you think I may be acquiring a really bad habit? Should I practice arpeggios on black key with the tip of the little finger? Or should I just keep using the little finger like an hammer in these circumstances?

I am looking forward to your suggestion

[hardy_practice]

The tip of your finger is the most sensitive so you need to use it.  Years ago I went through a phase of playing everything with all finger joints collapsed.  Things like the black note etude were easier but I lacked that all important sensitivity.  Also, don't use that muscle along the outside of the little finger - another common bad habit.

[chopinlover01]

Also, don't use that muscle along the outside of the little finger - another common bad habit.

Purely pedagogical question; why is this a bad habit? I've done this before when practicing things like the tempest (not on purpose, just when the rotation goes a little far) and never noticed any pain or bruising or anything.

[xdjuicebox]

If you are doing this with a flat hand, that is very dangerous because all of the stability used for delivering force into the key is coming from your tendons in your forearms, and that is the cause for all sorts of problems.

I will most likely get lit on fire for saying this, but sometimes I "karate chop" the black key if I need a lot of power on the pinky. It's structurally sound and sets the thumb up to the play the next note (if you keep going; because the thumb is already in position and all you need to do is drop), and if you have at least one finger (the 4th, maybe more) attached to the pinky and you just drop your hand, there is a lot of structural integrity there. However, if your pinky protrudes by itself, that's a great way to get injured. It's up to you.

Otherwise, use the fleshy part of the last phalanx, and try to use your nearly straight pinky as a "spear" into the key (at a slight angle). If that is too inaccurate, consider the karate chop lol it works GREAT for me when I play Liszt and can't afford to miss those bass notes XD [I assure you that I do this most of the time!]

If you choose to karate chop, the closer to the palm the better. I usually use the first phalanx (the part closest to the palm). Sometimes I just make a "cup" my hand (almost a fist) so there are two points of contact for extra stability.

Cue the flames!

[hardy_practice]

Purely pedagogical question; why is this a bad habit? I've done this before when practicing things like the tempest (not on purpose, just when the rotation goes a little far) and never noticed any pain or bruising or anything.

Because you don't contact with the sensitive finger tip you contact with the side.

I will most likely get lit on fire for saying this, but sometimes I "karate chop" the black key if I need a lot of power on the pinky.

By that do you mean supinating the hand?

[xdjuicebox]

Because you don't contact with the sensitive finger tip you contact with the side.
By that do you mean supinating the hand?

Yes, you supinate the hand and land halfway on its side, like a karate chop. Usually with the fingers slightly curled for a second point of contact. I found it the best way to not get hurt when I fling my hand across the keyboard for a HUGE bass note because my pinky structural integrity sucks

[hardy_practice]

Yes, you supinate the hand and land halfway on its side, like a karate chop. Usually with the fingers slightly curled for a second point of contact. I found it the best way to not get hurt when I fling my hand across the keyboard for a HUGE bass note because my pinky structural integrity sucks

Try the ending Ab arpeggio of Chopin op 25 no 1.  I always supinate on the bottom Ab - using the arm not the finger as in a karate chop (but pp).  If you have a free wrist you'll want to as it's a shorter distance. 

[vaaal88]

Thank you for all your answers guys. I noticed that after some practice, it was not difficult to obtain the right position of the little finger with the desired accuracy!

[hardy_practice]

Great.  Make sure all fingers play exactly in the middle of the key when they play black keys.  The accuracy comes in handy.