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Topic: Focusing/Practicing for Longer  (Read 2048 times)

Offline dratinistar

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Focusing/Practicing for Longer
on: January 08, 2016, 01:45:13 AM
Hi,
I'm a sophomore in high school and on weekdays I practice about 3.5 hours and 5-6 hours on weekends and I'm hoping to be participating in more international competitions. I know I need to practice more with the massive amounts of repertoire I have to learn and maintain. On week days I can get on the piano after school at around 5:00 meaning I have a 4.5 hour block of time to practice. However, I am having issues focusing. For the first hour I can focus through pretty much straight then take a ten minute break. For the second hour I need to take a break every 30 min. But by the third hour I get really fidgety and end up wasting a lot of time on breaks when I only have the 4.5 hour block. I've tried just taking a longer break and staying up later but I've realized without my 8.5 hours my focus gets even worse the next day. How can I not get distracted for longer than 15 min when I start to get tired? I definitely do plan my sessions. One of my friends is able to focus and play for three hours straight.
Beethoven:
Sonata no16
Concerto no 3
Schubert Impromptu op142 no1
Chopin:
Nocturne in D flat
Etude op25 no6
Sonata no3
Liszt Wild Jagd
Helps Homage à Faure
RachmaninoffConcerto 2
Mendelssoh

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Focusing/Practicing for Longer
Reply #1 on: January 08, 2016, 07:04:56 PM
Commendable you have the drive to want to focus for longer periods of time on the piano.

You are in high school, I dont recall much, and I didnt play in high school, but I can say my ability to focus and sit for longer periods of time is relatively easier for me now in my older age (30s-50s) I dont think you need to be that age perhaps, when you mature into your 20s or even later teens you may be able to focus and physically practice longer periods of time.

Also it helps to have a comfortable chair/seating and that your piano is in tune.
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Focusing/Practicing for Longer
Reply #2 on: January 08, 2016, 11:27:31 PM
Hi,
I'm a sophomore in high school and on weekdays I practice about 3.5 hours and 5-6 hours on weekends and I'm hoping to be participating in more international competitions. I know I need to practice more with the massive amounts of repertoire I have to learn and maintain. On week days I can get on the piano after school at around 5:00 meaning I have a 4.5 hour block of time to practice. However, I am having issues focusing. For the first hour I can focus through pretty much straight then take a ten minute break. For the second hour I need to take a break every 30 min. But by the third hour I get really fidgety and end up wasting a lot of time on breaks when I only have the 4.5 hour block. I've tried just taking a longer break and staying up later but I've realized without my 8.5 hours my focus gets even worse the next day. How can I not get distracted for longer than 15 min when I start to get tired? I definitely do plan my sessions. One of my friends is able to focus and play for three hours straight.
At the age of 64 (you are in high school!), I find that what works best for me is two hours in the morning, and two hours in the afternoon.

So, just get up at 3:30 AM, which my late teacher Robert Weaver did every day until shortly from his death from cancer, and then you practice from 5 to 7 AM.  In the evening, I recommend you do it after dinner.

The reason for the break is twofold:  right now, drudgery is not a problem, but if you keep up this fantasy that millions of other aspiring pianists have experience, then you will crash and burn the way most of them (99%) have.  Also, any minor injury can rest and heal itself before the next practice session.

For the record, Chopin nor Hummel recommended that their students practice any more than two hours a day.

You have the rest of your life to learn how to properly play the piano.

Good luck to you and if you need any further advice please do not hesitate to contact me by PM.

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Focusing/Practicing for Longer
Reply #3 on: January 09, 2016, 12:26:48 AM
I admire your determination and hard work. You are putting a lot of pressure on yourself aiming to practice for so many hours on weekdays, when you have school. I remember my high school years were very tough - stressful lessons (conservative school trying to achieve best results in the state with mostly absolutely awful, mean teachers), lots of homework, very competitive atmosphere. When I look back I think I could have used the time in lessons better which would have saved me time when doing homework and I would have gained more time for practicing the piano.
But still - your problem is not the time itself but staying focused. I suspect that you are simply tired in the afternoon and your mind and body seek rest against your will. I am afraid you won't be able to work against it in the long run. Maybe your goal for daily practice on weekdays should be adjusted a little, because your body has limits you can't fight.

I find suggestion by @louispodesta very good and I do that too. Some days I get up earlier in the morning to have 1 hour practice session before work. Maybe it would work for you too. I know it is difficult to get up very early but provided you go to bed early enough you can get used to it over time. Good luck.
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Focusing/Practicing for Longer
Reply #4 on: January 09, 2016, 11:51:26 PM
I admire your determination and hard work. You are putting a lot of pressure on yourself aiming to practice for so many hours on weekdays, when you have school. I remember my high school years were very tough - stressful lessons (conservative school trying to achieve best results in the state with mostly absolutely awful, mean teachers), lots of homework, very competitive atmosphere. When I look back I think I could have used the time in lessons better which would have saved me time when doing homework and I would have gained more time for practicing the piano.
But still - your problem is not the time itself but staying focused. I suspect that you are simply tired in the afternoon and your mind and body seek rest against your will. I am afraid you won't be able to work against it in the long run. Maybe your goal for daily practice on weekdays should be adjusted a little, because your body has limits you can't fight.

I find suggestion by @louispodesta very good and I do that too. Some days I get up earlier in the morning to have 1 hour practice session before work. Maybe it would work for you too. I know it is difficult to get up very early but provided you go to bed early enough you can get used to it over time. Good luck.
Very well put: and, if the folks at piano street had any sense, they would feature this reply and its associated logic for all to learn.  However, the main point yet to be addressed associated with the OP's request is:  how did the OP come to the mindset, that more hours of practicing translates directly to better performance?  It, necessarily, does not!

My coach is Dr. Thomas Mark (www.pianomap.com), and he teaches that, after two days a particular passage you are practicing does not improve, then you need to break it down, analyze, and then begin again.  That process has nothing to do with more hours at the piano.

However, you have the luxury of having "for free" the experience of myself and the prior post who have both learned the hard way that more hours does not mean better performance.



Offline dratinistar

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Re: Focusing/Practicing for Longer
Reply #5 on: January 10, 2016, 01:08:32 AM
Thanks everyone for thehelpful replies. I will definitely try doing a session in the morning without getting to stressed out about it. However I still it will be useful for me to increase my time simply because I think that the quality of a practice session can improve your pieces, but expand repertoire one simply needs more time. I've noticed among my peers that those who practice more directly correlate with those with the biggest repertoire. Of course that is only if you mindfully practice. Mindless practice is useless either way.
Beethoven:
Sonata no16
Concerto no 3
Schubert Impromptu op142 no1
Chopin:
Nocturne in D flat
Etude op25 no6
Sonata no3
Liszt Wild Jagd
Helps Homage à Faure
RachmaninoffConcerto 2
Mendelssoh

Offline opus10no2

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Re: Focusing/Practicing for Longer
Reply #6 on: January 11, 2016, 11:34:13 AM
Aside from those tips already mentioned such as breaks and development of mental and physical endurance....I'd have a think about dietary considerations, and coffee.

Strategically drinking coffee is a great idea of not overdone. In particular I'm a fan of abstaining from carbs until the late afternoon. Having a carb-centric breakfast isn't a great idea for everyone....I'd suggest trying coffee with butter and perhaps a bit of coconut oil in. This gets your brain running on ketones - the energy released from fats. If you do a little research about it - it's a much greater energy source for sustained concentration.
Da SDC Piano Forum :
https://www.dasdc.net/

Offline quantum

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Re: Focusing/Practicing for Longer
Reply #7 on: January 11, 2016, 01:21:11 PM
I would recommend goal oriented practice sessions.  Listen to your body, and what it is telling you.  If 2 hours per day is your current sweet spot for focus, then work within that limit.  Do everything you need to do within that time period.  It will require you to think about your practice workflow and prioritize tasks. The good thing about this is it will discourage you from spending time on a piece in the hopes that "time spent" will be the fix to whatever problem you are working at. 

Set goals for yourself in your practice session.  A good general rule to follow: if a goal cannot be accomplished in a single sitting, it is too big - it needs to be broken down into smaller goals.  Take a bunch of small complete goals and string them together - you will be surprised what can be accomplished in short periods of time. 

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline pianotv

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Re: Focusing/Practicing for Longer
Reply #8 on: January 11, 2016, 03:21:32 PM
For the record, Chopin nor Hummel recommended that their students practice any more than two hours a day.

You have the rest of your life to learn how to properly play the piano.

This is how I approach it as well. I think it's natural for focus to wane after so long - after all, playing piano is immensely demanding both physically and mentally.

The times in my life where I have practiced the most (about 3 hours a day), I generally broke it up into 3 sessions - morning, afternoon, and evening - and even with each 60 minute block I would take 1 or 2 short breaks.

Besides, there are other things you can do, like study sheet music, listen critically to music, etc.
Allysia @pianotv.net

Offline xdjuicebox

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Re: Focusing/Practicing for Longer
Reply #9 on: January 12, 2016, 06:19:07 PM
You should never practice any more than you are able to sufficiently focus on what you're doing. Mindless playing is dangerous, even detrimental.

Personally, because my schedule is so sporadic, I practice twice a day in 2 hour chunks, usually having taken a nap before. On the weekends I'll play for 4-6 hours, but if I feel myself getting sluggish I stop and do less intense stuff like sightreading or improv (pattern) practice, or just practicing voice leading in every key. I might even practice dictation haha. But just not my pieces when I'm tired.
I am trying to become Franz Liszt. Trying. And failing.

Offline oldave

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Re: Focusing/Practicing for Longer
Reply #10 on: January 14, 2016, 12:52:59 AM
When I was your age, I got up at 5am and practiced for 2hrs, then again for 3 hrs after school. Take breaks every hr to maintain focus.

Offline isaach

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Re: Focusing/Practicing for Longer
Reply #11 on: January 14, 2016, 02:54:59 AM
I understand completely! Of course you want to practice as much as possible! Don't listen to all the "don't over practice" bunch, stop if it hurts (though not all pain is bad), otherwise, go crazy!! Piano when you're tired is awesome. When your really abstract mind takes over, you'll have all sorts of wild ideas that will expand your depth and soul as a musician. Piano takes all of you, or forget it.
As for your question, I have what I think is the perfect solution- get some exercise! Take up jogging, for instance. The effect it will have on your mental and physical stamina will put you into another class all together. Secondly, take a 20 minute nap after your first long, focused practice session, (or just after school) that should keep you fresh and focused for the remainder if the evening.
Unfortunately, my third piece of advice is to avoid competitions like the plauge. You will train yourself to play in a predictable manner pleasing to a mostly dull whitted, moderately talented jury of hacks. Art by commitee does not build meaningful careers; that, and the sheer number if people you are competing with makes it a waste of time. We are living in the online age! Spend your precious time playing music you love, not what is required on some application, and make your own way intelligently, using all the networking resources we all have available to us. Rather, you should view piano competitions as a useful distraction for the thousands super talented pianists who would otherwise be your competition in the real world, but are being taken out of circulation after competitives ruin their enthusiasm for the art and they give up.

Offline expressman70

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Re: Focusing/Practicing for Longer
Reply #12 on: January 26, 2016, 06:18:54 AM
I am sorry but no, not half talented, but usually highly qualified, internationally acclaimed pianists. I am a nobody to say this, but feel what you need, and listen to your body, don't overtrain. You need to practice more efficiently not longer. Learn how to do that, rather than getting those hours in, which might be counterproductive.
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