Improving finger weight and hearing

[jessipch]

How can you improve finger weight?
I have been playing brahms intermezzo op118 no.2
My teacher pointed out a very serious problem of mine: poor touch--not firm and even enough.
In the past I played a number of energetic pieces, my arms are quite strong. But when I come to this piece, it has been discovered that my finger touch and figer weight is not quite well. My teacher also said I am too energetic but not calm enough on this intermezzo, especially in the opening. She told me instead of using arm weight, I should use finger joint weight. But this has been difficult as my upright piano can't work well for this purpose, it just makes a small difference compared to grand piano.
Today, I went for a small competition with this piece. In constrast to my teacher, the judge comment my sound projection is the weakest among all. It was a hall with great space, not a small music room. The keyboard of the grand piano was way more lighter than my teacher's. But I should have been adapted to the atmosphere and heard my weak projection but I just didn't sound THAT weak to me.
So
First in imporving my finger:
Do you guys have any recommendation on what pieces to train with? I am look for list with different variety of difficulty and style. I think I should start with medium piece so that I can focus on my diploma pieces on the other hand.
Or do you have other ways to improve this? Like exercises...whatever.

Second
In improving my hearing and adaption to different piano
How can I eliminate the effect of subjective hearing? Apart from recording? I once recorded in my teacher's music room but the voices sound so different when I placed my Ipad in different position-_-

Should I book different piano in different studio, apart from my teacher's?
(but Studio might sound different to those hall with objects absorbing the sound...aruggg)
Thanks!

[adodd81802]

Here's my opinion on the matter, take from it what you will.

Hearing is a skill used most in the practice phase of a piece. You should be using your hearing to ensure to you that everything sounds how it's supposed to sound in a "perfect" environment.

It seems your lacking touch ability is either an underlying issue that is affecting all your pieces ,but some more than others, or that this issue is now playing on your mind and affecting your playing in other pieces too.

Adjustments required to different pianos, different environments are indeed required, but there are many other factors required to be perfected as much as possible so that you can concentrate on the sound without the worries of touch, correct notes, etc.

So it seems to conclude with regards to hearing that you need to have a 100% idea of how a piece should sound, and aim for that, and practice that relentlessly. With the intermezzo you mentioned it seems you were not even aware of your touch issue until your teacher told you? Make sure they either play it to you or recommend recordings you can refer too to help improve, listen to those examples with great detail.

Hearing, as a skill in a piece is as much as "on the spot processing" as it is recalling in your mind how a piece should sound based off that "perfect" performance and replicating that in real time. That recall of hearing is in combination with other recalls in the brain, like touch, like the height of your stool, like the feel of the keys and they all come together.

So regards to touch.

I don't have experience with the piece, and without your elaboration I do not know if you mean entire touch, touch with certain fingers, or touch with certain combinations with notes.

The problem with recommending exercises or pieces is that you're not going to play them any different, you're still going to play them with this same touch you're referencing, because it's how you play not what you play. My best advice again, is grab your teacher get them to really go through the motions with you what they are suggesting, have them get you repeat it until they are satisfied with how you do it, and again you study in great detail exactly what you did.

I commented on another post regarding playing the piano, and the illusion that being able to play one piece, means that you can 'play' the piano. (not that i'm directing at you specifically) but if we used driving as an example;

a drivers licence in the UK allows you to drive a standard car or small van.

Now in an arctic lorry, it still has the same pedals, the same gears the same steering wheel, however you have to do extra training and gain an extra licence to drive an arctic lorry, because despite the method of them being both classed as "driving" they are not the same in practice.

The piano is definitely similar in that respect that there are many technical skills required that need to be taught and refined, particularly if they do not come intuitively.

There are a number of technical exercises I can point you towards, but again, these would only improve your skill, if you already had the skill in the first place. If you're missing it, go back to your teacher and really point that out.

[michael_c]

I don't know what your teacher can mean by using "finger joint weight": the weight of a finger is barely enough to depress a piano key.

Instead of concentrating on the strength of your arms or your fingers, focus on really listening to your playing. Do record yourself, again and again, with different pianos in different situations. When you listen to the recording, don't bother about the timbre of the piano, the resonance of the room or the recording quality, listen to things like this:

- Is the melody distinct from the accompaniment?
- Does the phrase have a well-defined shape or is it all more or less at the same level?
- Does the music breathe?
- Does your interpretation communicate what you want it to communicate?

When you are criticised for weak projection, it is probably not because your playing is actually physically weak, or too soft. It's more likely that your interpretation just didn't grab the hearer. If you are really saying something with your playing, people will listen. Focus on communicating with your audience.

[louispodesta]

How can you improve finger weight?
I have been playing brahms intermezzo op118 no.2
My teacher pointed out a very serious problem of mine: poor touch--not firm and even enough.
In the past I played a number of energetic pieces, my arms are quite strong. But when I come to this piece, it has been discovered that my finger touch and figer weight is not quite well. My teacher also said I am too energetic but not calm enough on this intermezzo, especially in the opening. She told me instead of using arm weight, I should use finger joint weight. But this has been difficult as my upright piano can't work well for this purpose, it just makes a small difference compared to grand piano.
Today, I went for a small competition with this piece. In constrast to my teacher, the judge comment my sound projection is the weakest among all. It was a hall with great space, not a small music room. The keyboard of the grand piano was way more lighter than my teacher's. But I should have been adapted to the atmosphere and heard my weak projection but I just didn't sound THAT weak to me.
So
First in imporving my finger:
Do you guys have any recommendation on what pieces to train with? I am look for list with different variety of difficulty and style. I think I should start with medium piece so that I can focus on my diploma pieces on the other hand.
Or do you have other ways to improve this? Like exercises...whatever.

Second
In improving my hearing and adaption to different piano
How can I eliminate the effect of subjective hearing? Apart from recording? I once recorded in my teacher's music room but the voices sound so different when I placed my Ipad in different position-_-

Should I book different piano in different studio, apart from my teacher's?
(but Studio might sound different to those hall with objects absorbing the sound...aruggg)
Thanks!

If you so desire, please contact me (for free) regarding this piece and its overall related technique.  I am 64, and I have played this piece since 1974.

Best wishes.

[trollbuster]

If you so desire, please contact me (for free) regarding this piece and its overall related technique.  I am 64, and I have played this piece since 1974.

Best wishes.

this sounds creepy 

[jimroof]

this sounds creepy 

To me it sounds like someone is willing to help someone out. 

To the OP, I have always felt that Brahms' piano works need to be played with what my piano instructor called 'bear paws'.  It is passionate, weighty, full and heavy.  Not harsh and abrasive, and rarely dainty.  Sweet at times, but always with a richness pervades.  You are right that weight needs to be applied in order to achieve this, but the weight is not from the finger - the finger merely supports the weight.  It is not a matter of arm strength as much as it is a matter of arm weight and FINGER strength to transmit that weight to the keys.  If you can imagine relaxing your shoulders and elbows and just letting your arms be dead weight as your fingers 'walk' this weight on the keys, that is sort of what I am talking about, but it is used in measured doses.

The beauty of being able to play this way ensures that the weight of your arms (and/or torso) can be distributed with more control than the striking power of your individual fingers.  My 4th fingers (and yours too) cannot do the work that my index fingers can do with the finger muscles applying a striking force, but my fourth finger can totally equal my other 4 fingers when it comes to supporting the weight that goes into a carefully crafted musical phrase, with the crafting being accomplished through the careful distribution of weight.

Hope this makes sense.  If not, it is likely my ability to explain...

[trollbuster]

To me it sounds like someone is willing to help someone out. 

  yeah he is very willing   

he also posts a lot of BS trying to convince people he can play

you are new here

[jimroof]

  yeah he is very willing   

he also posts a lot of BS trying to convince people he can play

you are new here

Does anyone know for a fact that he cannot?  I tend to take people at face value until they lose that status.  BTW, I may be new here, but at 58... I ain't really that new.

[trollbuster]

I will let you be the judge.   listen carefully then let's discuss

dare you to watch it all   

[jimroof]

I will let you be the judge.   listen carefully then let's discuss

dare you to watch it all   

Why did you tell the OP that LP's offer to discuss things was 'creepy'?  That is not a statement that speaks to pianistic skills as much as to to moral character. 

The guy might not be able to play his way out of a wet paper sack, but that does not make him a stalker or a creep.  If you are going to publicly call someone on something then be specific.

[isaach]

To the OP, it sounds like your teacher does not really have a good grasp on technique, so maybe try to find a new one? That kind of wishy-washy criticism says more about your instructors ability to teach than your ability to play.

Firstly, as far as weight is concerned, you should always direct your weight forward into the keys. Not down, and your fingers should be slightly bent with the bridge of your hand being very, very strong at all times, never collapsing. It will give you the control that you need to produce a solid sound.

Next, good tone is produced by the fingers, but controlled by your ear. It is only one note following another, and balance between voices, nothing more complicated than that.

Good ears come from listening and deep concentration. Strong fingers come from exercising your fingers and wrists like hell for a couple of years, once you get sick of your half-baked technique. You either have to sit down and do some grueling work, or give up, there is no easy or magical musical solution.