If you were the last person on earth - How much would you practice?

[opus10no2]

Philosophical and hypothetical question - but I think a valuable one to ask oneself.

How much of your time do you devote to the ambition of impressing others? Of communicating art to others?

How much time would you devote to Music and to Practice if there were no one in the world to hear it but you?

Think about it a little and ponder those 3 reasons you may play -

1 - for the sake of the enjoyment of Music solely for oneself.

2 - for the sake of the communicative spirit of artistic expression - to express and share.

3 - for the sake of impressing others, pleasing others, making others smile - partly for the sake of ego but also for practical reasons like making a living and enhancing your standing in society.

I don't think any of these are bad reasons to play and I don't want to deter anyone from practicing for whatever reason - moreover I want to encourage self-awareness - to gain perspective on why we do what we do!

[outin]

I've never practiced for any other reason than wanting to be better for my own sake (nr 1 on your list), to get more out of music than what I get by just listening to others play. There's nothing I'd need to communicate to others with music (words are quite enough for me) and I certainly don't need to impress anyone. This is probably also why I never seriously considered music as a profession even though I have always thought it's as essential to my living as food.

[bronnestam]

The last person on Earth? Oh good, finally as much time as I want to practice!

That is what I think. 

[outin]

The last person on Earth? Oh good, finally as much time as I want to practice!

That is what I think. 

That was my first thought too...but then I started adding the hours I'd use to keep myself warm and fed without any services from other people...

[piulento]

That's a good question.
I have to admit that in some points in my life, having a musical 'rival' or somebody I wanted to hear me play, made me reach further than I would otherwise.
But since I joined the army and had so little time to play, I started realising that the reason I play is mostly for myself, because it helps me organize my mind and connect with myself.
If I were the last person on earth, I think I'd play just as much.

[hardy_practice]

As reality is a social construct experiences not shared never become real.

[outin]

As reality is a social construct experiences not shared never become real.

Who cares? Reality is overrated...

[hardy_practice]

Good point.

[goldentone]

Social construct - good term.  Society vs. reality. 

Some think it is better to starve themselves and the other than relinquish
a lie that will inexorably be relinquished.  I personally would rather deal
with some Kapustin.

[chopinlover01]

As reality is a social construct experiences not shared never become real.

Your philosophical backing for this? The only thing can be known for certain, as I'm sure you know, is "Cogito ergo sum".
I'd probably practice more or less the same, since I show off to myself more than I do other people

[hardy_practice]

Your philosophical backing for this?

On the whole you see things the way they are presented to you.  Even the concept 'things' is given in that way.  You'd need to do a lot of reading.

The only thing can be known for certain, as I'm sure you know, is "Cogito ergo sum".

Ol' René  got it wrong.  You can only say "Cogito ergo cogito."

[outin]

 You'd need to do a lot of reading.

I always recommend more thinking instead of just more reading...

[ted]

Now:

1. 90%
2. 10%
3. 0%

Fifty years ago:

1. 50%
2. 30%
3. 20%

The sharing aspect these days amounts to giving others the opportunity to hear a little and providing more only if requested. Forcing my music or playing on people has never appealed to me.

[bronnestam]

That was my first thought too...but then I started adding the hours I'd use to keep myself warm and fed without any services from other people...

Oh, I skipped that part as it was just a hypothetical question anyway. I would need people to maintain my piano etcetera. Free delivery pizza, electricity, all that.  But disregarding that ...

[theholygideons]

Oh, I skipped that part as it was just a hypothetical question anyway. I would need people to maintain my piano etcetera. Free delivery pizza, electricity, all that.  But disregarding that ...

And free prostitutes!... uh, oh wait..

[outin]

Oh, I skipped that part as it was just a hypothetical question anyway. I would need people to maintain my piano etcetera. Free delivery pizza, electricity, all that.  But disregarding that ...

I would just teach myself how to tune. And pizza I can make if I have to.
To have the whole world to myself...not bad... I think surviving on my own would be an interesting challenge

[briansaddleback]

Practice all day. If hypothetically all services like electricity still work then I will have no responsibilities anymore to anyone.  24-7 sweet music books and practice.

[dcstudio]

I keep thinking of that Outer Limits episode where a very near-sighted Burgess Merideth is the last man on Earth.  He has the entire library to himself and then breaks his coke-bottle glasses and can't read anymore. 

[1piano4joe]

Hi opus10no2,

All things being equal it would be the same amount because of reason no. 1

1 - for the sake of the enjoyment of Music solely for oneself.

However, everything would be different wouldn't it?

Possibly no water, food, electric, gas, oil etc.

We pay money for these things but somebody else is doing the maintenance. Well, they're gone now right.

When I'm gone then the human race becomes extinct?

Honestly, I don't think I would be able to survive for very long but trying to would probably take up all my time.

Therefore, no playing at all!

Final answer, Joe.

[dcstudio]

Hi opus10no2,

All things being equal it would be the same amount because of reason no. 1

1 - for the sake of the enjoyment of Music solely for oneself.

However, everything would be different wouldn't it?

Possibly no water, food, electric, gas, oil etc.

We pay money for these things but somebody else is doing the maintenance. Well, they're gone now right.

When I'm gone then the human race becomes extinct?

Honestly, I don't think I would be able to survive for very long but trying to would probably take up all my time.

Therefore, no playing at all!

Final answer, Joe.

Hey Joe, wow... way to take a nice post-apocalyptic fantasy and ruin it with obvious realities such a scenario would present...lol

the OP seems to be suggesting that recognition from others is what motivates people to play the piano.  Remove that recognition and there would be no need to practice? is that the point of this question?

[outin]

I keep thinking of that Outer Limits episode where a very near-sighted Burgess Merideth is the last man on Earth.  He has the entire library to himself and then breaks his coke-bottle glasses and can't read anymore.  

If everyone just disappeared and all stuff was left behind, the world would be full of glasses. It's only a matter of finding a pair that suits you

BTW. It is actually quite possible to survive without electricity and running water...Here we call it a summer vacation 

[chopinlover01]

On the whole you see things the way they are presented to you.  Even the concept 'things' is given in that way.  You'd need to do a lot of reading.

I'm decently versed in philosophy; please do give me your explanation, and feel free to recommend me some books if you'd like.

Ol' René  got it wrong.  You can only say "Cogito ergo cogito."

No, you can definitely say "I am", "am" being defined as existing in this experience we call reality. Even if it is all a simulation, we can successfully conclude that we exist, because if we didn't exist we wouldn't be able to think.

[hardy_practice]

You can start by reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito_ergo_sum

You cannot posit a thinker just because there are thoughts.  I was taught that in Philosophy 101 many moons ago.

[opus10no2]

Hey Joe, wow... way to take a nice post-apocalyptic fantasy and ruin it with obvious realities such a scenario would present...lol

the OP seems to be suggesting that recognition from others is what motivates people to play the piano.  Remove that recognition and there would be no need to practice? is that the point of this question?

Partially. I suggest that for most people a certain percentage of their motivation is based on artistic expression - moving people - and recognition - impressing people.

I do see some sincerity in people who say that they largely 'play for themselves' but I think in most of us there is a percentage of our motivation derived from others.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm saying it's a human thing and it's interesting to ponder this question for self-awareness sake- also I'm referring to a comfortable environment with no struggle to survive.

[outin]

Partially. I suggest that for most people a certain percentage of their motivation is based on artistic expression - moving people - and recognition - impressing people.

I do see some sincerity in people who say that they largely 'play for themselves' but I think in most of us there is a percentage of our motivation derived from others.

That is probably true for normal people. But I think playing the piano is an activity that can draw in more people who are not social in a normal way.

[dcstudio]

Partially. I suggest that for most people a certain percentage of their motivation is based on artistic expression - moving people - and recognition - impressing people.

I do see some sincerity in people who say that they largely 'play for themselves' but I think in most of us there is a percentage of our motivation derived from others.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm saying it's a human thing and it's interesting to ponder this question for self-awareness sake- also I'm referring to a comfortable environment with no struggle to survive.

I have been playing the piano for 47 years... most here have no concept of how long that is.  I never have to force myself to play and if I am not careful 12 hours will go by and I will barely notice.  I play professionally because, well... I can and it's nice to get paid.   To stay with it as long as I have you have to be self-reliant when it comes to validation.   Sure, it's great to go out and impress people... I do it all the time... but I also love just spending the day alone with my instrument.   playing the piano is part of who I am and occupies a big part of my day... during that time I tend to isolate myself from the world anyway.  If I was the last person on Earth all I would do is play the piano I think. 

[hardy_practice]

also I'm referring to a comfortable environment with no struggle to survive.

Even worse!  'In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed,...'

[chopinlover01]

You can start by reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito_ergo_sum

You cannot posit a thinker just because there are thoughts.  I was taught that in Philosophy 101 many moons ago.

And why not?
If there is no thinker, what is the source of the thoughts?

[hardy_practice]

And why not?
If there is no thinker, what is the source of the thoughts?

Yes!

[opus10no2]

There is a difference between playing and pleasure and practice towards a goal.

I'm more referring to the latter, the 'work' - although I do understand it is a labour of love 

For me - I made this topic because I myself realized that I push myself beyond the amount that I'd play for my own sake because I feel sharing is a big part of the joy of music and constitutes a percentage of my motivation. As does the motivation of impressing others, I'm willing to admit this(even if others aren't haha).

I'd be doing the wrong thing with my time if they constituted the bulk of the reason I play though - my own love of music is the overriding motivation - I just found it interesting to observe and acknowledge the others.

[outin]

There is a difference between playing and pleasure and practice towards a goal.

Deliberate practice gives me much more pleasure than just playing something I can. I hardly ever "just play". That is one reason why I don't like playing for others. Then I cannot stop and start fine tuning something or experiment when I feel like it.

[pianoplunker]

Philosophical and hypothetical question - but I think a valuable one to ask oneself.

How much of your time do you devote to the ambition of impressing others? Of communicating art to others?

How much time would you devote to Music and to Practice if there were no one in the world to hear it but you?

Think about it a little and ponder those 3 reasons you may play -

1 - for the sake of the enjoyment of Music solely for oneself.

2 - for the sake of the communicative spirit of artistic expression - to express and share.

3 - for the sake of impressing others, pleasing others, making others smile - partly for the sake of ego but also for practical reasons like making a living and enhancing your standing in society.

I don't think any of these are bad reasons to play and I don't want to deter anyone from practicing for whatever reason - moreover I want to encourage self-awareness - to gain perspective on why we do what we do!

Nice angle on an age old question. If I was the last person on earth, I would also be the best piano player on earth.  I would still practice, wouldnt want to disappoint myself

[chopinlover01]

Yes!

I'm confused as to your argument. We agreed there needs to be a thinker for there to be thoughts; therefore, "I think, therefore I am".

[virtuoso80]

Interesting question. I think I wouldn't practice. There's be no one to practice for. I might still play for fun, but I have perfection in my head, I don't need my hands to do it.

[hardy_practice]

I'm confused as to your argument. We agreed there needs to be a thinker for there to be thoughts;

No - that was you and Descartes.

[opus10no2]

Interesting question. I think I wouldn't practice. There's be no one to practice for. I might still play for fun, but I have perfection in my head, I don't need my hands to do it.

There would be someone to practice for - yourself! But yes motivation would be rather different with no one else around.

I think the consensus for most people would be that in this scenario someone would perhaps PRACTICE less...but actually PLAY more. 

[chopinlover01]

No - that was you and Descartes.

Then what was the point of

Yes!

[cuberdrift]

You know this thing about the "ego" thing reminds me of the thought of, "What if you were already accepted and known as the greatest person on earth"?

I personally think a person could and would feel more free to do benevolent actions if this were the case. I have a feeling a lot of stress comes from trying to "prove oneself". If you're already known as the greatest person there is, maybe you'll be more concerned about others' welfare, than yourself.

In any case, assuming I were the only person around on earth, and I didn't need to worry about all other needs, I think I'd end up spending much more time practicing, simply because I don't have other needs to worry about.

I think it's kind of like a doodling thing...you know, what you do on a piece of paper when you're bored. You're not really planning to show it off, but at the same time, it might be an enjoyable thing because it is something creative.

[hardy_practice]

'If there is no thinker, what is the source of the thoughts?'  Answer that for yourself.

[adodd81802]

I would like to think that the reason I play is selfishly for myself more than anything. I strive to better myself in the things I enjoy, and the piano just happens to be one of them things.

I am a very nervous performer even much so that the GF could be in the bath, upstairs not paying attention and hear me play a piece perfectly. Soon as she comes down to actively listen, it often falls apart and so for me, playing for others is not something I particularly enjoy.

But i'd say the things I practice in life are influenced by various factors. The piano I practice for myself, Computer programming I practice for my job, going to the gym I do to keep in shape and healthy (physically attractive to the GF!)

It's very tough to give every aspect of our interests equal attention and so for me in particular, I find I go phrases, for a couple of months I may spend hours and hours at the piano, then drop it for a month and concentrate on my fitness, maybe balance some piano with my career over the next couple of months and so on.

So being the last person on earth here's my thought process.

My interests are now massively influenced by different things. No longer would I need to concern myself with a career, no longer would I concern myself as much with fitness etc etc. Take away a lot of factors and see what i'm left with.

The piano would be on that agenda throughout, as it's one of the few things I honestly think I do just for myself. So that would never be given up and always be something I'd come back to.

But ultimately I would also have to consider the long term goals, and as this is a hypothetical situation, i'm going to be quite "out there" and say i'd start getting my head down in researching AI computing and start getting some company to stop myself going MAD!!

[mjames]

I am a very nervous performer even much so that the GF could be in the bath, upstairs not paying attention and hear me play a piece perfectly. Soon as she comes down to actively listen, it often falls apart and so for me, playing for others is not something I particularly enjoy.

I have the same problem. I get way too nervous when she asks me to play for her.

[briansaddleback]

I have been playing the piano for 47 years... most here have no concept of how long that is.  I never have to force myself to play and if I am not careful 12 hours will go by and I will barely notice.  I play professionally because, well... I can and it's nice to get paid.   To stay with it as long as I have you have to be self-reliant when it comes to validation.   Sure, it's great to go out and impress people... I do it all the time... but I also love just spending the day alone with my instrument.   playing the piano is part of who I am and occupies a big part of my day... during that time I tend to isolate myself from the world anyway.  If I was the last person on Earth all I would do is play the piano I think. 

I agree. Suggestive opinions of others , like the one by op10-2 should just actually be seen as a reflection of themselves.

Sort of like if a person grew up hurt and neglected, hearing one person say 'i love you' would not be able to interpret it in a sincere way but cynically. no matter how much that person can say it is sincere. Because he sees through his own life's perspective.

 I would practice and get lost in my music 24 7 if it were the twilight zone case of the man with the smashed glases.

[abel2]

Philosophical and hypothetical question - but I think a valuable one to ask oneself.

How much of your time do you devote to the ambition of impressing others? Of communicating art to others?

How much time would you devote to Music and to Practice if there were no one in the world to hear it but you?

Think about it a little and ponder those 3 reasons you may play -

1 - for the sake of the enjoyment of Music solely for oneself.

2 - for the sake of the communicative spirit of artistic expression - to express and share.

3 - for the sake of impressing others, pleasing others, making others smile - partly for the sake of ego but also for practical reasons like making a living and enhancing your standing in society.

I don't think any of these are bad reasons to play and I don't want to deter anyone from practicing for whatever reason - moreover I want to encourage self-awareness - to gain perspective on why we do what we do!

You kidding me? I'd find a Steinway showroom and play till I die.

[keypeg]

When I read the question, it was totally incomprehensible to me.  Other variants would be:

- If ladybugs lost their white spots - how much would you practice?
- If chocolate stopped being delicious - how much would you practice?
- If mice roared and lions squeaked - how much would you practice?

In other words, one has nothing to do with the other.  We explore things and try to get more and more out of them, and get more and more out of what we can do, through our own innate impulses.  The existence of others has nothing do with it, which is why I didn't get the question.  You explore music because it exists.  The only disappearance that can change that is if music were to vanish.  But then maybe you would become its first new creator.

[chopinlover01]

'If there is no thinker, what is the source of the thoughts?'  Answer that for yourself.

Then there are no thoughts. There cannot be thoughts without a thinker. Where would they come from otherwise?

[hardy_practice]

Then there are no thoughts. There cannot be thoughts without a thinker. Where would they come from otherwise?

You can't posit an 'anywhere' for things to come from.  You can just say there are thoughts.   or maybe even you can only say 'thoughts'.  There are shelves of literature out there on Descartes you could try Damasio Descartes Error for starters but Nietzsche has plenty to say too.  The Postmoderns Foulcaut and Derrida too.    

[klavieronin]

I often think of this very scenario and in my head I feel like I would practice a good four hours a day - not too much but enough to make good progress. In reality though I feel like you would spend all your time just trying to stay alive. Without others to grow our food, generate our electricity, make our clothes etc. life would be pretty tough. Interesting question though.