Menuet sur le nom d'Hayden - Ravel pedaling and emphasis

[Nina_too]

Has anyone else played this?  I have some questions.

First, I know that the inspiration for this was based on Haydn's name... and it first appears right away in measure 1-3 as B-A-D-D-G.  How many times does it repeat?  I count 6 times:  meas. 1-3, 19-20 (inverted), 25-26 (inverted), 29-30 (inverted), 42-43, and finally at the end 52-53.  Do I have them all?

Second, when you perform this does anyone put any extra emphasis on these notes when they appear?  I'm not sure if doing so isn't a bit cheesy, sort of a nudge-nudge-wink-wink to the audience.

Finally, in measures 38-41, how do you pedal it?  I am playing with a few options, first catching the low B with the sostenuto pedal then either: 1) pedaling lightly between each chord change or 2) not pedaling at all until the very end.

Any opinions out there?

Thanks for any help!
Nina

[DarkWind]

I hope you noticed the theme coming in through the left hand and upside down. Different bar numberings from my version, it seems. Anyways, this piece was written for a "Hommage à Joseph Haydn." Haydn died in the year 1809, and this piece was written in the year 1909. I guess you can see what that year was supposed to mark. This piece isn't performed very often, which is a shame. It's a very unique an odd piece, with a rather light feel to it. I'm not sure about the pedalling, but I would suggest against emphasizing the notes. Let the people try to discover what the theme is, and when it comes in to play.

[quasimodo]

Listening to Samson François interpretation. He doesn't emphasize these notes but rather the group that's following, with ornamentation (I don't have the score sorry).
He doesn't seem to use much pedal as well, maybe just a little in the middle.
As far as Samson François was considered as one of the best specialists of Ravel's music for piano, this could be useful.

Btw, a little bit off-topic but I like the Menuet Antique (also Ravel) too, beautiful harmony.

[Nina_too]

I've been playing around with this piece for an hour or so now... I think I was trying to play it too impressionistically, sort of mushy and watery.  (I don't have a lot of experience with Satie, Debussy, Ravel and others of their general ilk.)

I've used less pedal and made it, for lack of a better term, a bit more "manly."    By that, I mean it moves along fairly well, fairly rhythmically, and sort of comes to a small crescendo on those ornamented chords that quasimodo mentioned.

I like it!  Of course it may be completely at odds with the style of the piece, but I'm going to play around with it a bit more before I listen to some recordings.

Thanks!
Nina

[quasimodo]

I've been playing around with this piece for an hour or so now... I think I was trying to play it too impressionistically, sort of mushy and watery.  (I don't have a lot of experience with Satie, Debussy, Ravel and others of their general ilk.)

I've used less pedal and made it, for lack of a better term, a bit more "manly."    By that, I mean it moves along fairly well, fairly rhythmically, and sort of comes to a small crescendo on those ornamented chords that quasimodo mentioned.

I like it!  Of course it may be completely at odds with the style of the piece, but I'm going to play around with it a bit more before I listen to some recordings.

Thanks!
Nina

People often make the mistake to consider Ravel's music as impressionist and compare him to Debussy. Some of his pieces are impressionist but his general approach is not. To make it simple, the music of Debussy or Fauré, who are epitomes of impressionist composers, is often based on chords and modal conceptions while Ravel's is more melodic. Obviously that's more complex than this but that's the general idea. The impressionists tend to let the melody blur in the harmonisation (like an impressionist painter would let forms blur in light and/or fog) which Ravel rarely does, though he uses similar chords that we find in Debussy's music. That's pretty interesting to study how Debussy and Ravel use similar harmonic schemes but with very different aesthetic intentions.

The way you describe your interpreting choices sound fair to me.

[Sketchee]

I agree with quasi that the second description of clean notes seems more like Ravel than the "mushy and watery" pedaled effects that might work with Debussy.  Keep up the good work. There are places in Ravel where that may be appropriate but I don't think this Menuet is one of them. It's Ravel in a more Neoclassical mode.  Sounds like you have a pretty good ear in that you discovered this on your own. 

[Nina_too]

Thanks, Sketchee... about the "ear" comment.  But I can't take all credit for it, after reading quasimodo's and darkwind's posts I tried it less impressionistically and thought it sounded much better.

So thanks to all!
Nina