you knw jeevs... it's not that I doubt you are receiving emotion from listening to Rach. It's this attitude that you are the only one...that you have some special ability. That those of us who have studied music for decades upon decades have done so without a spiritual connection and understanding of what we are playing. That we do not spiritually commune with the great master composers in our own way and receive our own emotional perceptions in much the same way that you feel you do. The difference is, I am able to use those emotional connections to convey the power in the music that I perform because that is why we have those connections.BLAH BLAH? that's still English To me, the Gmin prelude has a military feel to it. I hear an army choir of proud Russian soldiers singing and marching. I feel bravery mixed with despair... I feel the army is marching to doom. Marching to Death is what I feel that theme says--which in Russian works rhythmically. I can visualize this quite easily and render it in watercolor if I so choosenow, my friend, why is your "perception" correct and unique and mine is not?how can you possibly claim to understand how I perceive music and tell me that you have a special ability and I do not? I am able to let this music come through me and out of my fingertips...and I perform quite often.... do you honestly think your listening experience is even close to that kind of musical experience?. there is no way you can know now is there.these are not opinions...
I know I'm coming across this way, and while I have to respect that you have an opinion, I think you are way off.It's great that you studied music, I can only assume that you're talented. But studying something doesn't always make you an expert. You're gminor analysis, I can't come to terms with. It has nothing to do with the military, the "alla marcia" is not a real march, it's just supposed to convey authority. That middle section is hardly appropriate for a piece, written by a 16 year old who is probably more concerned with his own feelings than that of others as most teens would be, to be about an army? The despair you are correct, but it's introspective despair, he's talking about himself, he's writing about himself. He admitted this to us. It's not a death march, what the hell kind of death march ends in a quiet and playful ascending passage? is that supposed to me, when quickly and happily march to our death?To your question, I'm not a clasically trained pianist, but I can and do play, even with a dislocated finger on one hand and a broken pinky on the other. I wonder how those happened?I can hear music for what it is, I do have an ability, I'm sorry if this upsets you, you don't have to listen or respond, but I am going to share my thoughts.To you, and anyone else, who actually did listen to all the time stamps in my original post, the Bronfman cadenza, while thinking "blah blah" and not clue in, I am sorry, but keep trying, it's there, and it's absolutely hilarious, Rachmaninoff truly was a genius.
This will be incredibly hard to describe, but all of a sudden, as I was recording and playing back samples (digital piano), something inside of me, my brain, the way I hear music, completely changed. It's as though, all of a sudden, music started getting processed in a completely different part of my brain, because I wasn't just hearing music anymore, I was hearing real thoughts, words, stories, as though the piano suddenly had a voice that wasn't there before (perhaps I just wasn't listening properly). I figured maybe I am just catching up to what most people actually hear when they hear music, and I was a late bloomer.
"blah blah" "blah blah" "blah blah"
You're Rachmaninoff, on your way to the US, you write #3 as a way to explode onto the scene. You're practicing on the plane ride over.
What gives you the idea that Rachmaninoff wrote the piece "as a way to explode onto the scene" anywhere?From his bio:Rachmaninoff made his first tour of the United States as a pianist in 1909, an event for which he composed the Piano Concerto No. 3 (Op. 30, 1909) as a calling card. These successful concerts made him a popular figure in America; however, he was unhappy on the tour and declined requests for future American concerts until after he emigrated from Russia in 1917.Again, he needed something of substance to get him noticed so he could book concerts.Your point about the conductor, that's interesting, because the orchestra is SO CLOSE to being right with Rach and really nailing some sections, but alas, they couldn't always keep up. Because of the feud nature of this piece, a lagging orchestra can completely kill the point. Imagine you're yelling at someone, and they are yelling back, but always delay slightly. The argument would sound stupid. Thanks for your post.
Exploding on to the scene was just a figure of speech, I simply meant he needed to get noticed, he was already popular in Russia, and he wrote the 3rd in Russia, but didn't have anywhere near the following in North America.There wasn't a piano on the plane. He drew a mock keyboard and just worked on fingerings.Part of the whole issue here is people loved the piece, a bunch of people tried to play it, nowhere near Rach's speed and precision, and everyone has the non-rach version of his 3rd stuck in their heads, which moves by much slower than he played. As a result, people are actually hearing a different piece. Imagine Flight of the Bumblebee played at half speed. It would sound like a 6-year-old practicing chromatic. Certain music must be played at a minimum threshould in order for the real idea to come out, otherwise it just gets lost. That doesn't mean it would sound it, it just means there is a bigger gap between what the composer's intent was and what people actually hear from "mediocre" performances. Here's a quote from Rach himself:interpretation demands something of the creative instinct. If you are a composer, you have an affinity with other composers. You can make contact with their imaginations, knowing something of their problems and their ideals. You can give their works color. That is the most important thing for me in my interpretations, color. So you make music live. Without color it is dead."[He's bang on here, composers have this ability to "make contact" with each other's imaginations. It's a connection is just there. I think I'm getting a glimpse of it, and I was hoping others would too, that was the point of my post.
so Rach was looking for a way to explode onto the scene in the US?I explained what I meant, if you can read.first of all there were NO commercial transatlantic airline flights in 1918... so he didn't compose it on the plane ride--because he took a boat here. If this is part of your vision it is an anachronism.Nowhere did I say he composed it on the plane. I said he composed it in Russia. I said he PRACTICED it on the plane, because he did, go look it up and add it to the rest of your "very well-known facts". You're starting to sound ridiculous now. he had been forced to leave his beloved mother Russia due to the revolution and had been living in Sweden and Norway--odd that he makes no mention to you of the bitter homesickness he felt at this point as he emigrated to the US. He only composed six compositions during the 25 years he lived in Europe and the US. Upon his arrival in the US he had to tour constantly... it was said that it "was as if he had left his inspiration behind." Much ado about nothing. What does this have to do with anything that I said? Yes, he stopped composing until he got a house and restored it into a traditional Russian home. He admitted he couldn't compose out of of the purview of his heritage. Not even sure what you were going for here.yet you are envisioning him riding in an airplane that didn't exist and being inspired by his desire to "explode on the scene."I'm not envisioning anything, I READ it, go read it yourself. Stop trying to nitpick what I'm saying and say something of substance for once.I do believe the very well-known facts of his life are in contrary to your vision.As you've so decidedly demonstrated.I am sorry that you are unimpressed by my view count... 42 vids--1.7 mill views... my account goes back 10 years. I also apologize that you feel I am trying to force my channel on you. I only offer my view count as evidence that, in spite of the fact that you do not connect to my playing, there are many others who would argue that they do enjoy hearing me play. You can make no such claim, my friend. You only offer the 1st mvmt of Moonlight sonata to evidence your "expertise." I don't care who likes to hear you play, or me play, I don't play for the audience, I play for me. The difference is, I received 0 instruction, 0 lessons, 0 anything. Technically speaking, my abilities should be nowhere near yours? I'm the zero remember, I can't learn things intuitively, because unintuitive people don't know a thing about intuition and how powerful it is. Why is it always Moonlight Sonata... lol.Eh, why not? Most people play it wrong anyway, let's join them.perfect pitch and ahinton are also long time members... they are both highly educated in music.Good for them, I'm sure they're nice people (I mean that seriously ).this has been fun...but I have a gig tonight... so in spite of the fact that I am truly hearbroken and so jealous of your amazing skills... I guess I need to pull it together so I will be able to sit at my piano and earn the money I need to feed my family. Knock 'em dead! And to quote Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata:"Don't bother me! (in German the me is two sylables, which is why Eb always resolves to E)"XD even though I'm probably the only one who gets this joke. gee maybe I should just go work at McDonalds I'll ask my manager and get back to you.
How'd I do?
I think I solved it. The credibility bit is, even if people are wrong, but they all agree on nonsense, they are credible. The toilet part is where those kinds of minds belong.How'd I do?
(didn't MS do that, too?...he was at least likeable)
Erm... No, I wouldn't go that far. Was he the one that said Liszt talking to him personally, or was that another user?I forget - we've had so many crazies on this forum over the last year.
Hilarious. Cellular manipulation of thematic material reduced to this.Did you know that the opening of Beethoven's 5th Symphony is blah blah blah BLAH?
Your description of this concerto (that being "Blah Blah") seems more fitting to describe what you're saying, rather than what Rach is.
I posted the video and timestamps of Rach himself playing it. If you can't hear what he was going for, I'm sorry, but it's there.
perfect pitch you and I have been accused of being a "gang" of friends... YOU and I... I miss our arguments... you were a worthy adversary my friend... one prone to logic and reason... I won some...but I lost some, too. Nowadays we can't afford to argue with each other anymore... lol.
La do do do la da da dais all I want to say to you... Sting is a genius, too with his finger on the pulse of the universal language of music... so glad he changed his name from Gordon...perfect pitch you and I have been accused of being a "gang" of friends... YOU and I... OMG... this guy should have seen us a few years back, huh? wow... that is something I never thought I would have ever seen in a million years. I miss our arguments... you were a worthy adversary my friend... one prone to logic and reason... I won some...but I lost some, too. Nowadays we can't afford to argue with each other anymore... lol.
Aside from the Blah Blah thing.I don't like this recording. It is impaired. I remembered having read something that Rachmaninov didn't quite like it, too, but had to give in due to technology constraints at that time.
I wasn't sure where to write this response, as there are responses to this contention of 'Blah' on the OP's 'Moonlight' thread as well. I am wondering if the confusion is just over the 'terms' applied here.To me, the OP is simply identifying an idea that is very common in discussing compositional analysis… That being, a musical dialogue going on between 2 voices… And if this is all that was meant by 'Blah', i wonder what all the fussing is about - as it certainly, also, wouldn't be seen so much as a revelation, really, but something common in music. Perhaps if the OP would have framed the idea a bit clearer, it would have been easier to understand what she/he was getting at.(Or perhaps there is more to this 'blah' idea that i am not getting… )ps.. i enjoyed hearing the recoding..
Yes, of course. 'Dramatic' dialogue. It is almost a cliche to notice the structural 'at oddness' between orch. and soloist in many parts of most (romantic) concerti - as it is a primary part of the structure. (Though, not to be overlooked, there are parts where they 'come together' as well, as a unified 'voice').All the best to you.Theme.
generally speaking if a composer was inspired by something... they would indicate that inspiration and the work would be what we refer to as programmatic. Berlioz Symphony Fantastique is a great example of programmatic composition.Not if, all composers are inspired by SOMETHING. What does nothing sound like? I'm going to write a piece about nothing, I'll just indicate in the score full rests. What I'm trying to get across is, sometimes this SOMETHING can be as basic as blaw blaw. I showed an example of how a contemporary song takes 3 simple words and creates an entire song. Rach only needed two, and he composed an entire concerto, because he was a genius, as was Liszt, Beethoven, and many other composers....or are you claiming that not even the composers themselves were fully aware of this universal music language when they were writing... Of course they were fully aware. Not only that, I believe composers were "aware" of each other's true intent behind pieces. Composers' minds think differently than ours, they are incredibly intelligent, I know this by looking at how tactful they are in their markings, and how they use every single conveivable "tactic" to produce unique sounds. This is why Liszt loved writing transcriptions, because he "understood" music, he could extract ideas, make them more concise, build on them. He loved doing this, because he could get into the minds of other composers. Please don't misunderstand my use of the term "universal language". It's not a real language, there aren't any books on it. I'll try to use the following example. You know how mothers (maybe you have kids?) have a pretty reliable ability to "know" what's on their child's mind based on their behaviour? For example, a child will act a certain way when they need to be changed, or they are hungry. This is the "theory of mind" that I'm talking about when it comes to composers. Among themselves, they simply had that ability to, instead of looking at a child, they can look at a score, play it, and get an accurate gauge on the composers' "theory of mind" and know what they are saying. if you were to personally ask Rach if blah blah was on his mind when he wrote the 3rd Concerto--would he agree? if he had to tell the truth.I've actually thought about this scenario, if he were alive would I ask him? Not for any personal satisfaction because I am already convinced that this is true. However, I might make a joke and say something like "that 3rd, I heard it and couldnt help but think, yeah yeah blaw blaw". I think he might have found that amusing.But in all honesty, I don't need to be the only one who hears this, it's right there in front of us. Just listen to him play as if you knew nothing about music, and just listen to the sounds he's producing from that piano, it's so funny!
there are formulaic compositions and what we call "absolute music" and there is also programmatic music... and yes if a composer was aware of these words that inspired these great works...ok... so why didn't they teach this to their students? or speak of it to anyone, or write program notes as was the fashion? this is a compositional tool--to replace words with pitch, but there are many compositional tools and each master composer had their own unique way of composing.This is a good question, I have wondered it myself. Why would they not have taught this to their students? I think the answer is, they probably tried to (Liszt did teach composition) but the problem isn't simply changing words into pitch. Music is more than that. It's attaching a "tone" to these pitches, allowing them to form a progression which creates a narrative that possesses a very specific "tone". I don't think this is something that can be taught, it requires immense creativitiy. One needs to be meticulous with exactly how to modulate the pitches to create a desired "effect", the end result needs to sound "human-like" unless the composer is bonkers. It's sort of like poetry, you can teach someone the rules, good practices, but you can't teach them to be creative. It takes a pure genius to craft these works. I wish I could make a better case for just how "genius" these works are, it really is absolutely mind blowing. I haven't even touched the surface of "technical" analysis in anything I've presented yet, I got much too excited with the discovery itself.so, if all composers are inspired by "something" as you say... perhaps you can tell me what inspired this composition that I am playing on guitaras it is my own composition... I should know what inspired it... translate... in fact we have many composers here on the forum...if you can translate Rach's works from Russian... well surely you could do the same for some of these compositions?Now let me come right out and say something here. The ability to reverse-engineer this music requires:-Meticulous attention to detail by the composer when composing the work (Accents, dynamics, rests etc). Without this, the narrative would be "generic" and can not be narrowed down. This is precisely what happens with Schubert's Impromptu's. They are not "serious" works, though they follow a "generic" narrative, it's not specific in any sense, and one can't "make out" exactly what's being "said" (though I can indeed outline the general narrative). In fact, it's so clear how these impromptu's are written. They really are that, "impromptu"'s, take a very very simple idea and plays with it on the fly. Not specific though, it's very generic.-The "mind" behind the work to be of exceptional brilliance, creativity, with immense clarity in their writing, intention and expressionor does this only apply to long-dead composers of the Romantic Era? Surely, Blaw Blaw isn't any more complex than my composition.This applies to any composer who has a clear vision of their work, which is founded on real thoughts, who intentionally set out to write a piece based on an idea(s), and they have the intellectual prowess to have their ideas meticulously manifest in music.Now "blaw blaw" itself is not particularly complex, but NO musical work's idea that I have encountered thus far is "complex". That's what I've been saying this whole time. The ideas are often SO SIMPLE, it's the CREATIVITY, the application of tools to bring the simple idea about, the various ways they develop these ideas, that makes these composers geniuses.I want to make an analogy here. I might compare a genius composer's "voice" as wind chimes, very clear in their sound, intent, modulation, etc. But without the immense depth of expression, meticulousness in markings, the wind chimes suddenly become a foghorn, which is impossible to discern (unless the piece is called "foghorn").Please do NOT take this as any sort of insult, I am simply saying, these composers' level of meticulousness when marking their scores is absolutely mind-boggling. Even tempo, whenever they syncopate passages, it's saying something about the tone of the piece, every single detail matters, and every single detail is just as important as the last.I swear as God is my Witness that should you "Rumplestiltskin" the answer you will make a believer out of me. I will start a new thread.Do you have the sheet? I will try to provide an analysis of what I'm given, but if there is another work of yours that has any more "detail", please bring forward.
I was wondering what you would make up to get out of this...Damn, I was hoping you'd have gotten off the offensive by now.because we can find you a composer or two around here with a clear vision of his own work... Not to sound rude, but if a composer here had anywhere close to the "vision" that these geniuses had, they would be world renowned. And if they are, and they can commit to me that their work is based to some sort of real narrative, I'll gladly take up the challenge. Are you yourself willing to admit that you are as gifted as Liszt and Rach were when it comes to applying vision to your work? Be honest with yourself?and meticulous with all his rests and accents...lol and syncopates passages... This very well could be the case. May he or she step forward.by the way I took 2 semesters of notation along with 4 semesters of theory and sight-singing... 98% average. writing "meticulously" marked scores and making them "mind-boggling" is taught in core classes. Much time is devoted to harmonic and structural analysis of great works...what makes them "tick" in a technical sense... and the ways that composers broke the rules of traditional forms. I don't understand why you would want to see the score... how does that help?I don't care how many classes you took. I JUST finished explaining that you can't teach creativity. I JUST finished explaining that one can be given the tools to perform the task, but the inspiration does not come from a classroom. My challenge above stands, and I'll repeat, are you willing to claim your intellectual prowess to rival those of great composers and poets? Be honest with yourself?you do realize that MOST editions of these works have additional markings not made by the composer? can you tell the difference?In my analysis of Un Sospiro, I used two versions. One I got from this site, one I've had for years. The copy provided by this sight had numerous errors, missing accents etc. It was almost a "yeah here are the notes" version. My version has meticulous markings that must be intended by Liszt, because their application is integral to forming the cohesive narrative I produced earlier. It is a tale about a french girl named Lottie, with some attachment at the end "-Do". Someone has a surprise for her.. blah blaw you know the drill. If the markings aren't from Liszt, then there is a genius out there who took a Liszt piece and transformed it into a narrative, and didn't tell anyone, and left Liszt's name on it.I am a 4th generation piano teacher descendant of Liszt himself through my professor the late Dr. Jack Roberts.. I would like to believe at least some of what I learned at UNT was passed down from the master Liszt himself. there is no way of knowing though really... Come on now, just because you're now claiming a direct bloodline to Liszt (dubious) that has nothing to do with his offspring's offspring etc. score 1 for the scientific method.
I never said bloodline... I said I am a piano teacher descendant... my teacher's, teacher's, teacher's, teacher was Liszt. I would like to hope at least something I learned from Dr. Roberts came from Liszt himself. that's my connection to Liszt and I would say it's a fair one... that's all. "I am a 4th generation piano teacher descendant of Liszt himself" bit threw me off I have offered ways for you to prove this objectively... so many reasons why there are so many predicating conditions for this ability of yours.I told you it's coming.it seems highly situation based and transient... lol... I think you are full of baloney completely and I have for a while.. I don't think you believe you have any power whatsoever you are just farming reactions...You got me. I decided the best use of my time is to sit on a forum and make things up. A piano forum, at that. If my intention was to get reactions, I'd go somewhere with bigger bang for the buck. This isn't about having an ability or power, it's not what I'm trying to sell. I'm saying that these composers' works are much more profound than I think we realize. I was hoping to persuade someone else to see the beauty I see. If I'm just here for reactions and you believe none of what I say, simply ignore me and continue about your life.see ya.
but I am having so much fun... you wouldn't be the first to figure the best use of their time is to come here and try and convince people that they know something they don't or can do something they can't.if you are serious... than read thishttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking
Oh Jeev...We've had so many snowflakes like you come through here. Only "they" can truly appreciate someone's genius. "They" have some deep insight into the composition/composing process that the rest of us plebs will never comprehend. "They" alone have the true vision for a piece. Each time this happens, all you people do is remind me of this:When you make your "blah blah" Rach 3 debut to rapturous reviews at Carnegie, give me a shout. Until then, your keyboard-warrior rantings are worthless.This of course isn't to say that people are not entitled to their own interpretations of pieces, but the typical blustering of fools like you that come and go on this board is always good for a chuckle.