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Recitals and associated challenges (Read 1332 times)

Offline diomedes

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Recitals and associated challenges
« on: February 26, 2016, 04:12:11 AM »
Performing is a joy and always a challenge, what more can you ask for.

So, I learned a recital program within a couple months, set a date, and few days before the date I finally realized: god bloody damn it, not enough time, I need more.

So memorizing and learning over an hour of music, sure impossible is definitely fun, but being able to generate an audience and predict when all this is ready to go. Should I buy a crystal ball next?

Share experiences and discuss
Ravel, Alborada del Gracioso
Schumann, Kreisleriana
Scriabin, Sonata nr.3
Liszt, Don Juan

Offline diomedes

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #1 on: March 28, 2016, 10:25:57 PM »
Looks like no one does recitals around here. They're fun, some of you should give it a try.

Anyway, recitals are done,  my estimate for being prepared was off by a whole month (!!!!) than initially expected.But Saturdays performance was confident and clear and I was shocked to see the program was an hour and 20 minutes in length.

Obviously I need more experience.

Anyone with similar experiences?
Ravel, Alborada del Gracioso
Schumann, Kreisleriana
Scriabin, Sonata nr.3
Liszt, Don Juan

Offline mjames

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #2 on: March 29, 2016, 01:04:56 AM »
Cant share sorry
Am amateur


Composing/improvising

Chopin's 4th ballade and 3rd sonata.
Scriabin Op. 42 no. 1, 2, and 3.
Bach Partita No.4

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #3 on: March 29, 2016, 10:01:54 PM »
Cant share as well amateur too. However we are all amateurs in this thread. I wil just say this two points:
1  Dont expect an audience will be willingly (mentally) attentive throughout even a half hour of work by an amateur or someoen they dont know. A Professional or someone who specializes in a genre of music? Sure. give them an hour.
That is why the last two recitals I set up are not just 'about me' as I am no one. I brought 4 other student friends from class and we all shared a piece or two on the piano. That was entertainment for the crowd.

2 Youre way off if you think you only need two months to prepare a recital's worth of new music? Let alone, 1 hour? Even the pros present performances of pieces they learned over the years. And even 2 months is pressing it. But they are pros. But any amateur who has any perspective of respect for those who attend a recital and appreciate music should think twice before committing to only 2 months to slap together some music, which at that point, is not really about the music, but it is really about 'hey look what i can do in 2 months' .

thanks hope it helps.
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline diomedes

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #4 on: March 30, 2016, 12:36:46 AM »
It does help, it's always valuable to reflect on the opinions of others.

Technically I'm an amateur also, but everyone is at a different
stage. I'm somewhere 10 years after completing a piano performance degree and checking my abilities to perform again after developing my learning routine for year and years tirelessly. It's like an experiment in cognition.

I'm keen to see where the boundaries are, and you're main concern is definitely what should always the biggest one, which is audience response. I'd never perform unless I specifically stand with something to offer confidently.

But you do read about people who can learn as much as 2 recital programs per month.

I think though the idea of listening to an amateur is generally uninteresting unless they have some professional capacity. Just because someone doesn't do it for money means they're no good.

I recorded the Rachmaninov and I was surprised that it was rather clean and communicative.
Ravel, Alborada del Gracioso
Schumann, Kreisleriana
Scriabin, Sonata nr.3
Liszt, Don Juan

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #5 on: March 30, 2016, 01:08:36 AM »
Ok i give you credit then. I believe however, that giving yourself a set schedule to cram some stuff together is not really wise. I am not sure where you got the 2 month benchmark , but if anyone has said that on the forums then I would advise you take all of their advice w a huge grain of salt. There are always a number of conditions they leave out basicalyy half truths are always churned out on the forums so give yourself credit for even being able to come close to 2 or 3 months
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Online rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #6 on: March 30, 2016, 01:25:34 AM »
No matter how much I prepare for one I never feel prepared.

So it's just something I deal with.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline diomedes

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #7 on: March 30, 2016, 01:35:08 AM »
Ok i give you credit then. I believe however, that giving yourself a set schedule to cram some stuff together is not really wise. I am not sure where you got the 2 month benchmark , but if anyone has said that on the forums then I would advise you take all of their advice w a huge grain of salt. There are always a number of conditions they leave out basicalyy half truths are always churned out on the forums so give yourself credit for even being able to come close to 2 or 3 months

Couldn't agree more. That's where the issue is, what's the timeline? I think experience tells.

But a timeline is necessary, cause you got to tell people of the event too. I think with enough time with the process of learning and putting out it can be done but all music is radically different to learn.

I did 3 recitals to examine the process last September, repeated the program 3 times (tempest, estamps some Scriabin and a big toccata) and the program was generally light weight on purpose to see if I actually *can* perform comfortably with my new memory methods. That as a pioneering effort took about 3 months to assemble from nothing.

This last program was a technical suicide.... But it more or less worked.

I do plan to do this perpetually, and as efficiently as possible. Just curious if other people have experience that's similar.

And as said above, you're never really prepared, it's valid.
Ravel, Alborada del Gracioso
Schumann, Kreisleriana
Scriabin, Sonata nr.3
Liszt, Don Juan

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #8 on: March 30, 2016, 03:24:41 PM »
I m sure you'll agree that the more and consistently you take on these recital projects and stress towards a deadline, whether a success or technical suicide , the more acceleration in growth you have. The more rigors and demands you put on your body and mind they get adapted to it and even though you don't notice it now, but in a few years you look at past videos or audios for comparison , and voila, you just realized you're at several levels above that you never noticed while you were in the trenches.


I'm curious to hear your estampes. The whole or just one or two piece?
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline reiyza

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #9 on: March 30, 2016, 05:56:03 PM »
For the sake of sharing.

I'm scheduled for my very first recital in my whole life this coming may, though I've been assigned only 2 piece(s). I'm finding it hard to study and fully learn this two pieces, the chopin 64-2, and mozart K.545(1st mov). For one, the mozart is terribly technical demanding for a beginner like me, I'm having a hard time with even scales and the long trills with fast alberti bass. It's an absolute nightmare.

I think I am really short of time, given that I started learning mozart this march, and for the chopin, I'm still learning fingerings and pitch. Maybe I'll just back out like a good man before I embarrass myself in front of professional musicians. :(

Sure the process of learning for a recital is fun, but there is also the stress of underperforming on recital day. Even though I haven't really performed yet, the fear of delivering a bad performance haunts me every second of my life.
Still a complete beginner after 4 years of playing

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #10 on: March 30, 2016, 06:33:07 PM »
For the sake of sharing.

I'm scheduled for my very first recital in my whole life this coming may, though I've been assigned only 2 piece(s). I'm finding it hard to study and fully learn this two pieces, the chopin 64-2, and mozart K.545(1st mov). For one, the mozart is terribly technical demanding for a beginner like me, I'm having a hard time with even scales and the long trills with fast alberti bass. It's an absolute nightmare.

I think I am really short of time, given that I started learning mozart this march, and for the chopin, I'm still learning fingerings and pitch. Maybe I'll just back out like a good man before I embarrass myself in front of professional musicians. :(

Sure the process of learning for a recital is fun, but there is also the stress of underperforming on recital day. Even though I haven't really performed yet, the fear of delivering a bad performance haunts me every second of my life.

K545 1st movement is technically demanding  for all. Some just handle it better than others, but dont worry. Also dont be haunted by the possibility of delivering a bad performance. Do you best to prepare , yes, dont give up and go do it.
I learned much more about myself and has strengthened me and humbled me in multiple ways (and I am a better person due to it) after a couple of crash and burn recital performances in front of crowds of 50.

If you have the right mature perspective on it,
A piano recital sets you up for a win-win proposition..

You perform well, it is an accomplishment and progress for your pianistic goals.
You fail (or your definition of fail) and it is an accomplishment and progress for your personal character. ..if you handle it right.
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline reiyza

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #11 on: March 30, 2016, 06:45:56 PM »
Then the sonata shouldn't be called "facile" as it is not beginner friendly. Thank you for the encouragement, I am doing my best. But I think it won't be enough. I'm gonna open a thread regarding these two particular pieces when all else fails, and then upload a recording of these two by the end of april or may. Please do wait for it, or not.

Good advice sir brian. But performing in front of people is not my forte, and I'm usually a negative person. So more or less, I'd say the chance of me appearing at recital day would be, say 50/50 at best. Haha.
Still a complete beginner after 4 years of playing

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 06:54:42 PM »
Then the sonata shouldn't be called "facile" as it is not beginner friendly. Thank you for the encouragement, I am doing my best. But I think it won't be enough. I'm gonna open a thread regarding these two particular pieces when all else fails, and then upload a recording of these two by the end of april or may. Please do wait for it, or not.

Good advice sir brian. But performing in front of people is not my forte, and I'm usually a negative person. So more or less, I'd say the chance of me appearing at recital day would be, say 50/50 at best. Haha.
It is called facile because it is facile to Mozart.  And a lot of these terms and titles have sarcastic implications by the author or publisher.

"But performing in front of people is not my forte, and I'm usually a negative person. So more or less, I'd say the chance of me appearing at recital day would be, say 50/50 at best. Haha."

Let me break down your quote for you:

Quote
But performing in front of people is not my forte,
So that is why you do these things/practice doing the things that are not your forte.

Quote
and I'm usually a negative person.
I was too for the longest time. I said it is time to start taking control of what I think and focused on it and years later I am more strengthened and refined and proactive (negativity usually result from reactive to cues and influences around you, without discerning or filter or any control on your part) more so today.
And a music recital is a perfect venue to going through rites of passages and forks in the road. Prepare for and embrace these moments in your life forthcoming and do not run away from them. Mediocrity is not based on your failure or success at attempt. It is based on your approach to these opportunities by running away or dealing with it.

Quote
So more or less, I'd say the chance of me appearing at recital day would be, say 50/50 at best.

Why set yourself up for failure? Try your best prepare your best. Dont think about what you think will happen. WHy? Your body and nerves believe every word you say or think you dont believe me? Ask a few doctors on what they believe about the power of the word and health.

Quote
Haha
At least you have a good sense of humor about yourself and dont take your self too seriously.
Take life and life actions seriously. Dont take yourself too seriously.
Some here unfortunately have it reversed.
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline diomedes

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #13 on: March 30, 2016, 06:56:24 PM »
I m sure you'll agree that the more and consistently you take on these recital projects and stress towards a deadline, whether a success or technical suicide , the more acceleration in growth you have. The more rigors and demands you put on your body and mind they get adapted to it and even though you don't notice it now, but in a few years you look at past videos or audios for comparison , and voila, you just realized you're at several levels above that you never noticed while you were in the trenches.


I'm curious to hear your estampes. The whole or just one or two piece?
The more you do anything the better you get, that's been my take on it. I had another recital program learned for last December and then personal life became a total whirlwind. So I called that off, and I'd say, it dented my learning method analysis and did slow me down.

My theory is if I do about 3 consecutive recital programs within about 8 months I'll have a really developed method, I'm fairly sure.

Contrary to the university expectations of one year having one appointed recital. You obviously learn nothing and waste time..

Here's my Debussy from last September, was my first time presenting a recital in something close to 10 years maybe.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JQfH7Pd13hg

Quote
You perform well, it is an accomplishment and progress for your pianistic goals.
You fail (or your definition of fail) and it is an accomplishment and progress for your personal character. ..if you handle it right.
Yes, failure teaches you a great deal too. I have a very advanced student now intending to cancel a performance, which I think they'd learn a lot from even if their stage fright gets the best of them.
Ravel, Alborada del Gracioso
Schumann, Kreisleriana
Scriabin, Sonata nr.3
Liszt, Don Juan

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #14 on: April 01, 2016, 09:18:38 PM »
You have to set some sort of timescale, simply because you can't, unless you are very fortunate, just schedule recitals "whenever you're ready". That said, timescale is almost unjudgeable if you are using new-ish material. It has an unpleasant habit of turning up problems which you couldn't necessarily anticipate. If it's with material you already have significant performing experience with, I think you should be able to revise and get it in an acceptable shape within a month or less, but nobody wants to play the same programme over and over again. (Acceptable defined as "the audience will be happy" not "you will be happy" because the harsh truth is I think it pretty rare to come off the stage and think "ooh that went really well", you often come off thinking "damn I played that note wrong in bar 157 and I shaped such-and-such phrase like a paraplegic hippopotamus" even if you did genuinely play well! A week later you often feel much more positive.)

Short answer is, the more you do it, the better you can judge what timescale to work within.

Offline diomedes

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #15 on: April 05, 2016, 05:30:34 PM »
The whenever you're ready is not a smart approach, agreed.

I'm toying with adjustments such as if I'm planning something like Rachmaninov moments musicals op.16 you can be sure the program won't be longer than an hour maybe even 50 minutes.

A time scale should be possible, but so much experience will have to come first. 
Ravel, Alborada del Gracioso
Schumann, Kreisleriana
Scriabin, Sonata nr.3
Liszt, Don Juan

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #16 on: April 05, 2016, 08:25:03 PM »
Here's my Debussy from last September, was my first time presenting a recital in something close to 10 years maybe.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JQfH7Pd13hg
This was great. I like your expression in this in that middle part w all the different timbre d instruments in the gamelan orchestra, lot of people play the Pagodes w strict time , which is fine and sounds good still, but you add the natural un evenness of gamelan gongs here and there and it plays more into that cultural feel (although , I dont really know too much about indonesian music, just what i feel that is all)
also usually the last part /ending part is when the piece makes my eyes tear up. but so many people play it too fast and tempoed hurried. you give it all the time in the world. it wasnt perfect, but you had that ' i have all the time in the world , and it moved .

unfortunatel due to work i coudlnt listen past the Pagodes, but that is my fav piece of the suite anyways so , nice job.
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Offline theholygideons

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #17 on: April 06, 2016, 01:27:09 AM »
No matter how much I prepare for one I never feel prepared.

So it's just something I deal with.
Aye man, but black people don't need to be prepared, they have other things going for them, like improv jazz.


Offline diomedes

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #18 on: April 11, 2016, 12:05:37 AM »
This was great. I like your expression in this in that middle part w all the different timbre d instruments in the gamelan orchestra, lot of people play the Pagodes w strict time , which is fine and sounds good still, but you add the natural un evenness of gamelan gongs here and there and it plays more into that cultural feel (although , I dont really know too much about indonesian music, just what i feel that is all)
also usually the last part /ending part is when the piece makes my eyes tear up. but so many people play it too fast and tempoed hurried. you give it all the time in the world. it wasnt perfect, but you had that ' i have all the time in the world , and it moved .

unfortunatel due to work i coudlnt listen past the Pagodes, but that is my fav piece of the suite anyways so , nice job.

Thanks, in that particular performance it went well. When I prepare things I like to tell people in terms of memory work I like to feel like I know the piece so well that it's all in front of me like an entire landscape. There's great comfort in that and when you play music like that it's like meditation, awareness of the audience vanishes. I love the expansive bass line in this, the B moving to the A particularly, I got the voicing of that just right in that play through in the coda, felt very good.

I had those moments when playing Rachmaninov op.33/3 and op39/7 at the last recial couple weeks ago. It's an exhilarating experience.
Ravel, Alborada del Gracioso
Schumann, Kreisleriana
Scriabin, Sonata nr.3
Liszt, Don Juan

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #19 on: April 11, 2016, 01:30:22 PM »
Thanks, in that particular performance it went well. When I prepare things I like to tell people in terms of memory work I like to feel like I know the piece so well that it's all in front of me like an entire landscape. There's great comfort in that and when you play music like that it's like meditation, awareness of the audience vanishes. I love the expansive bass line in this, the B moving to the A particularly, I got the voicing of that just right in that play through in the coda, felt very good.

I had those moments when playing Rachmaninov op.33/3 and op39/7 at the last recial couple weeks ago. It's an exhilarating experience.
I understand completely what you mean when you say you see the entire landscape of a piece (that you have been intimated with for so many months) and it shows.

I am compelled to ask you to take  a look at the expression of the last few notes starting w the E# chord in left hand on the middle section (where the several trills appear ) during the second trill  in the last trill measure. That part starting w that E# chord is an emotional emphasis closing off that middle section and it really tugs at me if those last notes are given their presence before melding back into the tempo 1.

I just ask you this above because you play it well, thus I am highly interested in sharing my opinion of expresssion w you on that. Thanks.
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline diomedes

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Re: Recitals and associated challenges
«Reply #20 on: April 12, 2016, 05:08:53 PM »
Fair enough, im always interested in points of view. That's interesting, I never  considered that part to have a really heavy emotional weight, I'd place it in other spots, namely the spot I cited above. Usually it's obvious where that point might be, but here it's not as clear.

Rachmaninov said there was usually one clearly defined point that has to be built around and  towards, as far as his playing is concerned. I don't always think like that, sometimes it's intuitive.
Ravel, Alborada del Gracioso
Schumann, Kreisleriana
Scriabin, Sonata nr.3
Liszt, Don Juan