Older pianists, how has age affected your performance?

[virtuoso80]

I'm not talking about wife/kids/job = no time to practice, I'm talking about physical limitations. How old were you when you felt like it was starting to limit you just a little bit? Do you feel significantly limited now? I'm 35, and I have back stiffness I have to work out before I play at 100%, but I still feel like I'm learning and progressing and getting better, and definitely haven't reached my peak yet. How old were you when you 'peaked', if at all?

[jimroof]

I'm not talking about wife/kids/job = no time to practice, I'm talking about physical limitations. How old were you when you felt like it was starting to limit you just a little bit? Do you feel significantly limited now? I'm 35, and I have back stiffness I have to work out before I play at 100%, but I still feel like I'm learning and progressing and getting better, and definitely haven't reached my peak yet. How old were you when you 'peaked', if at all?

I am 58.  My hands are still in pretty good shape despite having taken off a LOT of time from serious practice.  What I DO notice is the length of time it is taking me to memorize certain works.

Maybe it is partly due to the pieces I am working on right now.  For example, there are fairly easy sections of the Brahms Second Piano Concerto that I just cannot recall.  Chopin is not as bad, but Brahms just seems to be full of quirky voicing, polyrhythms and phrasing across bars that just makes it hard for me to absorb.

I feel that I could get back to the same physical capabilities I had in my 20's in fairly short order.  I have been working on Chopin's Opus 25 #6 and it is far better now than it ever was when I was younger, so in that regard my physical playing is better, but the progress there is due mainly to better discipline at my current age.

I remember learning fairly major pieces in short order when I was a serious student.  I learned the Gm Ballade in 2 weeks (though it took months to really start to understand it musically).  After 2 weeks of strong practice on it I could sit down with blank manuscript paper and write it out for you, note for note.  Now?  Not a chance I could do that these days.  Of course, I was putting in 4-6 hours per day back then too...

[dcstudio]

ok.. so I am pro and 51 and I play better now than I ever have in my life.  My hands are in excellent shape.   Hoping I can ride on for a while.

the deterioration I notice is in my back and my neck--if I don't keep moving at the piano I will have some nasty spasms.   Those tingles scare the crap out of me.

I was worried about this at the concert I just did... usually my back goes sour at EXACTLY 45 minutes because, like Pavlov's dog, that is the standard length of a "set."   I was onstage for 2 hours the other night though and never had to stop and stretch once.

[michael_c]

I'm 60, a professional pianist: I play better now than I did at 20 (even if memorising does take considerably more time). A pianist I know who recently turned 70 said that the last year was the best of his career.

You never know what imitations may come as a result of illness (a stroke, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, degenerative arthritis...), but apart from that there's no reason you shouldn't go on progressing into your 70s and 80s.

[ted]

At sixty-eight, the physical aspect of my playing is improving well beyond what I would have considered acceptable. While the mental component can never be underestimated, I have no doubt that the main reason is the consistent use of my Virgil Practice Clavier since my early twenties. Another factor could possibly be my doing at least two hours cardio and resistance training over many years; it must have some effect on piano playing. The only physically annoying thing with ageing generally is that minor injuries seem to take about four times as long to come right as they used to.

[bronnestam]

I'll be 50 in e few hours    and I think I have never been a better pianist than I am now. I learn faster too, because my practice and learning habits are much more effective now.
And most of all, my musical understanding is far better now. When I was a teen, I did not understand the pieces I was playing. My teacher assigned me a lot of pieces which I hated, that was not good for my learning ... Now I am an adult, I pay for my lessons and I only play what I want to play.

When I started to play again, at the age of 45, I got several muscle inflammations that were rather troublesome, but this problem seems to have vanished now when I am in better "piano shape" and have learned a better technique. But problems with muscles and limbs seem to be a curse in my family, unfortunately. I got knee arthrosis some years ago and I do whatever I can to fend off the attacks - but suddenly they are there, and that is hell. My worst attack was in summer -14, I was very much disabled for a month there. And it was very hard to play the piano too! You might think that a bad knee wouldn't stop you from playing the piano, but it did. First, the inflammation spread to my whole leg and the pain was driving me nuts. Second, it was nearly impossible to find a seat position which I could endure. I was lucky to have a baby grand piano so I rigged a bit under the piano to be able to rest my leg while I was practicing - lucky again that it was my left leg that was causing me trouble.

My physician told me that knee arthrosis is often spread to your knuckles, and the best thing to avoid it is to keep your fingers moving - which means that piano playing probably is protecting me here. Yet another reason to play much! 

[teresa_b]

Hi, I am an older pianist, and haven't posted here since I was a younger pianist, LOL!  Anyway, I am 60+, and a "serious" amateur pianist.  What I've found is:  I don't have too much physical limitation, except intermittent trouble with arthritic hand joints.  I have found the secret to getting nicely warmed up is total body exercise for 30 min to an hour before practicing.

I find that with consistent practice, I can play as well or better than when I was young.  My interpretations, I think are far better! 

I also have difficulty memorizing (and not being a professional pianist, have not focused on memorizing anyway).  I play a lot of chamber music, so no memorizing necessary! 

[indianajo]

I'm 65 and I'm playing pieces that are years ahead of what I played when I quite lessons at 16.
My kinesthetic sense is not accurate anymore and I have to watch my hands when they jump around for visual feedback.  I was taught never to look at my hands in the lessons.
I don't memorize as fast or as completely as I did then, but the pieces are harder. Also much longer, one suite is 30 pages.   
I do have to exercise daily to keep my back muscles in shape for holding me up straight.  This is more of a problem on the organ where I have to suspend my feet to wave them around. 
I also exercise arm muscles with a 5 pound weight about 5 days a week.  Pilates exercises.  If they muscles aren't sore they deteriorate past age 55.  Stretching is necessary to maintain flexibility. 
Post age 62 I lost a lot of fat in the gluteal area, and it makes sitting on the bench painful. I've added more foam padding but I'm still limited by how long I can practice. 
I have arthritis in my knees due to no cartledge.  I served in the Army and running in combat boots pounded the cartledge out,  However the problem hasn't spread to my hands or back. 
I look at pianists like Pinetop Perkins and Horowitz who played in their nineties, and hope the hobby will keep my abilities at that level.  Incidence of exercise and dementia are reported to be negatively correlated. 

[timothy42b]

I am 63.  I am playing trombone and recorder better than ever before and still making progress slowly.  Piano is pretty much at a standstill because of where I'm spending my practice time so I can't really compare.

There seem to be three limitations affecting me.  One is of course memory.  I can still play some solos from my high school days but there is no way I can remember what I learned last week.   
There is some compensation in that I can play a little bit by ear now, which was never true before.  You would think playing from memory and playing by ear might be related but for me they are not.

Second is vision.  Bifocals make it very hard to read music on any of my instruments.  It is worse for those in which head position affects tone production. 

Third is an increasing tendency to develop repetitive strain injuries very easily.  I have to be quite cautious about my wrists. 

My hearing is still fine.  Well, I've lost the high frequencies, but the recordings say I still play and sing in tune.  Sooner or later that will go; as soon as I detect intonation getting sloppy I will gracefully retire from ensembles. 

I am very careful to keep an active exercise routine.  Past 60 once you let it slide it is very hard to get it back. 

[pianocat3]

I bought single vision glasses set at a longer focal distance just for piano music. They are wonderful!  Cheaper than bifocals since they are single vision and I went with cheaper frames since I only wear them for piano, so they aren't going to have to endure the little accidents of life. The eye doctor knew exactly what I wanted when I asked. I wasn't the first to ask for them.

[visitor]

i find i am much less concerned with impressing others and more focused on being pleased with what i communicated and was it an enjoyable performance for myself and those in attendance.

[dcstudio]

 
There is some compensation in that I can play a little bit by ear now, which was never true before.  You would think playing from memory and playing by ear might be related but for me they are not.

 

that "play by ear" thing...  it is  not memory related. 


when we get older that "play by ear" thing goes bezerk-- it is like it goes straight from your ears to your fingers and there isn't any conscious command by you save for the melody/chord in your mind.  It's kind of amazing really.   I know that years of taking requests and playing cocktail piano has a lot to do with it and I know what I am playing--but it's because I can identify the chords by touch and sight--not because I am telling my hands to play them..   From my experience and that of other pianists I have known... the ears go into high gear at about 50--give or take.   We don't "hear" better--we are just able to process that data far more rapidly.

[birba]

The only thing that has deteriorated a bit is my ability to learn new pieces.  That is, the memory part.  Technically, fortunately, nothing has changed.  I can play just as fast and accurately as I always have.   One good aspect is that I've decided I've acquired the privilege of playing the way I like and not according to urtext, critiques, blah blah blah.  I like breaking the rules.

[visitor]

The only thing that has deteriorated a bit is my ability to learn new pieces.  That is, the memory part.  Technically, fortunately, nothing has changed.  I can play just as fast and accurately as I always have.   One good aspect is that I've decided I've acquired the privilege of playing the way I like and not according to urtext, critiques, blah blah blah.  I like breaking the rules.

+1. yep.  yep   

[timothy42b]

I like breaking the rules.

Me too.

I had those stupid black keys removed.  Not much point to them, and they really get in the way if you have thick fingers. 

Sounds a bit odd at first but you get used to it.

Did I mention my hearing is fading a bit? 

[dcstudio]

Post age 62 I lost a lot of fat in the gluteal area, and it makes sitting on the bench painful. I've added more foam padding but I'm still limited by how long I can practice. 

lol... I never had fat there... it's always been painful to sit on a bench--I have no butt -- I literally practiced my ass off.

[indianajo]

LOL.   You're not senior, you don't even qualify for AARP yet.  Just wait!

[dcstudio]

 AARP yes and won't that be a GLORIOUS day when I can get in on that action...lol    I am pretty active... try to keep the weight down, eat right, exercise...  but I have always been known as "no ass-at-all"--that's why I wear skirts.  You should see my padded bench--two big divits from the bones of my butt forever pressed into the cushion.  I know of  this pain you speak of my friend... riding a bike with a hard seat is torture.  Doesn't matter how much padding you put down. lol

[virtuoso80]

LOL.   You're not senior, you don't even qualify for AARP yet.  Just wait!

What's funny is that as people are living longer, AARP keeps wanting to expand it's base. My brother turned 50 started getting AARP stuff sent to him and it freaked him out.

[timothy42b]

What's funny is that as people are living longer, AARP keeps wanting to expand it's base. My brother turned 50 started getting AARP stuff sent to him and it freaked him out.

I hope you loaned him some reading glasses so he could review it carefully.

[dcstudio]

What's funny is that as people are living longer, AARP keeps wanting to expand it's base. My brother turned 50 started getting AARP stuff sent to him and it freaked him out.

I am 51--they send me stuff too... I am in denial. lol.  that is hard to take...seeing YOUR NAME on an AARP envelope... yep--just go ahead and  get out the milk toast and put on the house dress...think I should start knitting.

[gerry]

I began piano at age 5 and went on to major in music/piano. I was always considered a pretty good pianist and kept active accompanying and playing although I had a regular money-earning job - luckily in the arts. I'm now 72. Remarkably, my most significant advances in technique and interpretation have come in the last 10 years when I returned to serious study with an excellent coach and began practicing well into the wee hours of the morning - retirement has it's rewards. I feel that now I have the time, patience and serenity to work on difficult passages until perfected. I'm beginning to get a few twinges of arthritis--nothing that has affected my abilities yet--but more interesting is that over time I've developed a slight tinnitus. I happen to have a very strident, Bosey 225 that I have purposely kept unvoiced. At first it was just one or two notes that seemed to have a slight metallic edge to them, but this has spread to other notes and was making practice a bit unpleasant. I was considering a major voicing for the piano until I came across a type of earplug made by Etymotic Research used for high-fidelity hearing protection. I now practice and play using these and I can suddenly hear clearly every note I play. It's made all the difference. I even gave a house concert for friends using them and the result was phenomenal. I know this probably sounds crazy to you younger folk, but that's my "older pianist" story for what it's worth.

[keypeg]

Sorry for the OT, but what or who or where is this AARP you guys are talking about?

[timothy42b]

Sorry for the OT, but what or who or where is this AARP you guys are talking about?

People forget this is an international forum, not a US one.

AARP is the American Association of Retired Persons. 

[louispodesta]

Sorry for the OT, but what or who or where is this AARP you guys are talking about?

As I am as an aforementioned pianist/philosopher, I get to say things like this.

1)  AARP (American Association of Retired People) is a socialist entity patterned much like its European counterparts.  As a philosopher, that is an analysis as opposed to a judgment.

2)  They lobbied successfully for the American Congress to adopt what is traditionally referred to as "Obamacare."  It is socialized medicine.

3)   As correctly stated in another post, you get to join when you reach the age of 50!.  I have cowboy boots that are older (and no wiser) than that. 

At the age of 65 (08-02-1951), I am now playing better than I ever have, and it is scary.  The reason being is that I got there by doing regular physical strength exercises that are not supposed to work for people my age.

Hey, my mentor Earl Wild recorded the "Hammerklavier (Op. 106) Beethoven Sonata when he was 76 years old.  And, my only criticism was that it was too fast!

[brogers70]

As I am as an aforementioned pianist/philosopher, I get to say things like this.

2)  They lobbied successfully for the American Congress to adopt what is traditionally referred to as "Obamacare."  It is socialized medicine.

I wish Obamacare were socialized medicine, because that's what we need. Instead it's an overly complex, hybrid system forced on us by the power of the insurance companies (who have about 3 times the overhead as "socialized" Medicare). Markets work for many things, but not for medicine; universal healthcare is a critical piece of economic infrastructure, like roads, bridges, ports, and police.

[timothy42b]

As I am as an aforementioned pianist/philosopher, I get to say things like this.

1)  AARP (American Association of Retired People) is a socialist entity patterned much like its European counterparts.  As a philosopher, that is an analysis as opposed to a judgment.

Sigh.

Not even close.

The only thing socialist about AARP is that they associate.

There really is no point in using the term.  It adds no information value whatsoever.  If something is a net bad idea, that will be true regardless of whether it is based on some socialist ideal, or on a system driven by pure greed (capitalism), or something else entirely.  Calling something socialist simply allows you to characterize it as bad while remaining too intellectually lazy to think about why. 

Insurance schemes - well, all insurance, whether auto, life, health, property, etc., is based on the same principle:  spread the risk.  Most of us can afford a $75 doctor's visit while few of us can afford a million dollar organ transplant, so we share the risk.  The basic principle is that the larger the risk pool the lower cost for all of us.  I have friends who prefer to "hope" they remain lucky - they are actually more socialist, because if they aren't lucky they will rely on public infrastructure to save their lives, they don't assume they will just die if they can't afford care.

Affordable Care in the US (this is an international list) exists because the only way to pay for more universal health insurance is lower the cost by spreading the risk pool as wide as possible.  I'm not fond of mandatory coverage but I can see how the math works out. 

[louispodesta]

Sigh.

Not even close.

The only thing socialist about AARP is that they associate.

There really is no point in using the term.  It adds no information value whatsoever.  If something is a net bad idea, that will be true regardless of whether it is based on some socialist ideal, or on a system driven by pure greed (capitalism), or something else entirely.  Calling something socialist simply allows you to characterize it as bad while remaining too intellectually lazy to think about why. 

Insurance schemes - well, all insurance, whether auto, life, health, property, etc., is based on the same principle:  spread the risk.  Most of us can afford a $75 doctor's visit while few of us can afford a million dollar organ transplant, so we share the risk.  The basic principle is that the larger the risk pool the lower cost for all of us.  I have friends who prefer to "hope" they remain lucky - they are actually more socialist, because if they aren't lucky they will rely on public infrastructure to save their lives, they don't assume they will just die if they can't afford care.

Affordable Care in the US (this is an international list) exists because the only way to pay for more universal health insurance is lower the cost by spreading the risk pool as wide as possible.  I'm not fond of mandatory coverage but I can see how the math works out. 

You asked for it, you got it.

"Sigh"

[No comment.]

"The only thing socialist about AARP is that they associate."

[Then, I guess the rest of your rambling post is to be defined as a commentary on capitalist ("pure greed") health care?]

"Insurance schemes - well, all insurance, whether auto, life, health, property, etc., is based on the same principle:  spread the risk."  Most of us can afford a $75 doctor's visit while few of us can afford a million dollar organ transplant, so we share the risk.  The basic principle is that the larger the risk pool the lower cost for all of us."

[For the record, those young U.S. millennials are 1) not signing up at all, and paying the tax penalty, or more commonly 2) signing up to get their surgery covered and then quitting.]

"Affordable Care in the US (this is an international list) exists because the only way to pay for more universal health insurance is lower the cost by spreading the risk pool as wide as possible.  I'm not fond of mandatory coverage but I can see how the math works out."

[The current math in the U.S, (where we don't pay 65% of our wages in taxes, as in Deutschland), is that ALL of the insurances companies (that are still participating in this ludicrous fantasy) have jacked up their premiums and deductibles by 40% to 60% a year.]


And, while we are at it, all of the orchestras in Europe would be flat broke (as in the U.S.) if it wasn't for a socialist government sponsored subsidy.  This is due to the fact that the millennials in their countries are not participating (going to concerts) just like it is in my country. Hey, no problem, just assess another "tax."

Why?  The stuffed shirt/classist/elite Oligarchs (who always know what is best for us) have alienated anyone under the age of 35 (and a large percentage of everyone else), by their hubris and high concert ticket prices.

Finally, you cannot import the Chinese to mitigate the causality and the associated dynamic of this particular situation.  It is of your own making!

[bernadette60614]

There's a web series titled "It is All Downhill from Here"..the premise being that after a certain age you inevitably decline.

I would agree that it has been all downhill for me after a certain age, but in a different way: Everything has gotten easier.

I used to lead a graduate student lifestyle long after I ceased to be a graduate student.  Now at AARP age, I know that my body is not indestructible.  I need to sleep well, eat well, and manage my body so that it can do what I want it to do...which includes practicing and playing.

On an emotional level, I'm no longer obsessed with being the best.  I am fulfilled by the work of learning music.  It takes a substantial psychological load off of me as a I develop as a musician.

Finally, since turning AARP age, I have 1) taken up weight training (which increases my upper body strength so hours at the keyboard don't effect me). 2) begun tower running, i.e., running up long flights of stairs in competitions 3) taken up yoga, which means I am far more flexible.

The window is closer on my achieving the status of a wunderkind...but always open as I age on being a wunderelder.

[azooza]

I started aged 6 and had a good teacher at 9. He was always expounding my potential to my parents. Unfortunately I was too impatient. I wanted to run before I could walk and thus never bothered to learn to sight read in real time - even to this day at age 64.

I have memorised quite a few pieces from the original score and can render some Chopin pieces quite reasonably for my own ear; the etude op 25, 1 and the fantaisie impromptu being probably the most notable.

Getting older has improved both my performance and patience. I lost the hearing in my right ear overnight a few months ago (SSHL) which totally gutted me as stereo recordings are now an experience of the past, but I'm playing much more piano now - must be a sort of 'compensation'.

I know this is an advanced level group; I don't honestly fit here, but the question posted begged an answer from those of us at OAP age.

Glossary:

SSHL: Sudden Sensory Hearing Loss
OAP: UK - Old Age Pensioner

[bernadette60614]

I had a birthday recently, and it caused me to think about what my "real" age is:  It is the number of times I chose to learn something new in a year and take a positive outlook minus the number of times I turn away from learning plus the number of times I complain.

I like this equation, and I'm sticking with it.