Not enough hand stretch for the chords/note changing

[sashapiano]

My daughter is learning piano but she doesn`t have enough hand stretch to reach all chords/notes. And I am wondering how and to which notes it is possible to change the original chords in different music pieces to still be able to play chords and not just a single note out of a chord. For example if she can`t reach C and C on two different octaves, what can be played instead of one C? Is there`s a chart for it? Or one can just go by ear? Thank you!

[marijn1999]

The end of you reply isn't really clear to me. Anyway, let me ask you first: How old is your daughter. If she isn't able to reach an octave on the C, it sounds like she might be too young to start playing the piano.

If that is not the case, try beginning to work on pieces which don't require the hand to stretch to octaves. Most likely, her hands will continue to grow and she will become able to play octaves.

But to me, it sounds like she might be too young and you should start working on listening instead of beginning with pieces right away.

BW,
Marijn

[louispodesta]

My daughter is learning piano but she doesn`t have enough hand stretch to reach all chords/notes. And I am wondering how and to which notes it is possible to change the original chords in different music pieces to still be able to play chords and not just a single note out of a chord. For example if she can`t reach C and C on two different octaves, what can be played instead of one C? Is there`s a chart for it? Or one can just go by ear? Thank you!

1)  The true ossification of the human body, including the human hand does not occur before roughly the age of 23.  Pick up the telephone book and ask any chiropractor or orthopaedist.

2)  The major difference between what Dorothy Taubman, Edna Golandsky today, and their mentor from 100 hundred years ago, Tobias Matthay, is that they did not teach stretching.  Even the late Earl Wild, who had huge hands and stretched himself, did not do so with his child student Albert Wong (who was allowed to do so only after his hand grew enough to reach an octave).

So, you can do what millions of other parents before you have done and ruin your daughter's hand, or you can use the common sense God gave you and postpone any repertoire other than that of the Baroque or early classical period.
 

[mjames]

Don't rush her development, let her grow into it.


Don't be a tiger mom

[adodd81802]

I don't think the op was about stretching? But seemed to be about an alternative option of notes that could be achieved with the daughters hand size.

Nevertheless I don't think alternatives should be substituted especially as she may come back to them when she is older and will have to relearn them.


There are plenty of pieces designed for children and pieces that can fit into a hand span of a 5th check a search engine for "album for the young" I think there is a couple books by maybe Schubert or brahms

[quantum]

My daughter is learning piano but she doesn`t have enough hand stretch to reach all chords/notes. And I am wondering how and to which notes it is possible to change the original chords in different music pieces to still be able to play chords and not just a single note out of a chord. For example if she can`t reach C and C on two different octaves, what can be played instead of one C? Is there`s a chart for it? Or one can just go by ear? Thank you!

Best sense can be gleamed from one's ear and a knowledge of theory.  There really isn't a recipe book for this. 

How old is your daughter?  One should not be pushing children to play things beyond their physical limitations.  Have patience, as your daughter grows more music will become accessible. 

[michael_c]

I see four ways of managing this problem:

A. Only give her pieces to learn that are within her physical capacities. Her teacher (she does have a teacher?) should supervise the choice.

B. Remove certain notes or replace them with others that she can reach. There is no simple rule of thumb as to which notes are best removed or replaced without ruining the harmony or the melodic voice leading: a knowledge of theory is essential and once more it is her teacher who should show her what needs to be changed. The good thing here is that if the teacher is good at explaining why this note should be changed and not this one, the pupil will also start gaining the necessary theoretical knowledge.

This is a perfectly valid solution and should not be considered "cheating". You can learn and re-learn as well: the human brain is flexible and there is no problem with learning alternatives and later changing them back to the original version.

C. In certain situations it's possible to play all the written notes even if the hand cannot stretch the whole chord, by arpeggiating. You need to be at a certain technical level, though, to be able to apply this solution: it's not really useful for beginners. Once again, it's up to the teacher to say what is appropriate for the pupil in question.

D. Buy her a piano with reduced-width keys, or if you already have a grand piano, buy a keyboard + action with reduced-width keys that can be swapped for the normal keyboard + action (yes, these things do exist). This is arguably the best solution, but it's also prohibitively expensive for most people.

[sashapiano]

The end of you reply isn't really clear to me. Anyway, let me ask you first: How old is your daughter. If she isn't able to reach an octave on the C, it sounds like she might be too young to start playing the piano.

If that is not the case, try beginning to work on pieces which don't require the hand to stretch to octaves. Most likely, her hands will continue to grow and she will become able to play octaves.

But to me, it sounds like she might be too young and you should start working on listening instead of beginning with pieces right away.

BW,
Marijn

Thank you for the reply. She's played for 3 years - adores it... Still young - 7. Likes playing "adult" pieces, I am thinking about how to reduce intervals in some pieces but still keep the melody close to original...

[marijn1999]

Thank you for the reply. She's played for 3 years - adores it... Still young - 7. Likes playing "adult" pieces, I am thinking about how to reduce intervals in some pieces but still keep the melody close to original...

I wouldn't recommend changing a piece to make it comfortable to play for hands which are simply too small for it at the moment. You will have to be patient until your daughter's hands are big enough for more advanced pieces. Just start with looking at more easy pieces. There are tons of pieces which don't require a bigger hand-span than a fifth.

Or, you can of course force her to play more difficult pieces, not waiting until her hands are big enough and also injure her hands, guaranteed. This will most likely result in her not enjoying playing anymore after a not too long time.

Have patience, wait for her hands to grow. Instead, listen to music make her acquainted with easy piano pieces and maybe work a little bit on theory already.

BW,
Marijn

[1piano4joe]

Hi sashapiano,

The simplest octave fix is to simply play either note of the octave. The texture isn't as thick but so what and harmony is minimally changed.

In other double note situations (intervals), the right hand top note is often the melody and the bottom is usually either an inner voice or harmony note. The melody gets priority here and if a note were to be omitted it should be the non melody note or bottom note.

In left hand double note situations, the bottom note is the base (often the root) and the top note of the left hand is not as important and could be omitted but yes, use your ear.

As for adding/substituting notes, a knowledge of chords is essential.

Notes in a chord have a priority. The root (tonic) gets top billing. The name of the chord is the root. For example, in a C major chord, the root is the note C.

The 2nd most important note would be an E which is the 3rd of the chord C.

The most unimportant note which like Rodney Dangerfield gets no respect is the 5th of the chord which in this case is the note G of a C chord.

The ear fills in the missing notes.

In elementary method books a G7 chord is just 2 notes. G of course and the 7th F. These books leave out the 3rd B and the 5th D of the 4 note 7th chord.

At an ever so slightly higher level, G7 becomes a 3 note chord of G, B and F. The 5th note, D is omitted.

A chord chart would be invaluable to someone not fluent with them.

I hope I have been helpful,  Joe.

P.S. Welcome to Pianostreet!
  



  

[thirtytwo2020]

Hi sashapiano,

Lovely to hear about your daughter and her hunger for "adult" pieces! I wish her the best of luck and a long and rewarding life with a lot of piano playing!

My answer to your question would be that yes, one can just go by ear, and I am sure there are absolutely no useful charts for the kind of thing you are asking about. In many cases, I think the best solution will be to keep playing only one note in each hand. But sometimes it might of course make it sound more "real" if more notes are added, and then it will be very useful to know a bit about chord theory (as in 1piano4joe's post). And of course you should discuss these things with a good piano teacher.

Above all, cherish the fact that your daughter already has a love for music, which will bring both you and her many wonderful moments in the coming years!

[xdjuicebox]

I don't really think there's such a thing as "adult" pieces; when I was 7 I yearned to play Chopin too! And while I don't have nearly the same appreciation that I have for it now, I think it might have been good for my brain development who knows that's some complex stuff we got there haha

Anyway, you could do what I do when I have to play an 11th or a really uncomfortable 10th - arpeggiate it and use the pedal...? Sometimes I hate myself for that but I'm trying to play Liszt and my hands are only so large. If you do it fast enough it ALMOST sounds right ^^ But people might want to light me on fire for saying that who knows

Though Rachmaninoff has written chords that are simply unreasonable and most people play them by doing an epic jump (think Op. 3 No. 2 at the epic climax), and Scriabin has done similar things (Etude Op. 8 No. 12)

But only playing the lower note if it's in the lower register or the higher note in the upper register is fine for now and just add it back when her hands are big enough. Don't strain! And if you do, do not hold it for longer than 1 second! (Or even half of one! As short as possible!)