Memorizing the piece before being able to really read it

[mrdrums]

Hi. I am a musician by training but am new to piano. Reading has been moderately difficult meaning that I can read already but getting it on the piano is a struggle.

I have started out with Mozart Menuet KV2 and it seems to be an appropriate level for me.

However I am noticing that I'm memorizing the piece before I can read it well. I can play the first 8 measures but as soon as I look back up at the music I get all fumbly. Is this normal or should I continue to try and play the piece while looking at the music? Or should I just continue to hack away, memorize more of it from the sheet music and the reading will eventually come together?

[dcstudio]

as long as you are memorizing it correctly that's not a problem... new piano students tend to be either good readers or good players--few are both.    Of the two--the whole idea is to be a good player so don't sweat the reading not being perfect yet.   This attitude comes from old school piano teachers who forbade "ear playing" altogether.   They were there to teach kids to read music and that's it.  There is a belief among outsiders that sight-reading is great playing.. sometimes it is.. but a lot of the time it's not.  (prima vista sight-reading and reading are not the same thing). 

most of the time it's the ear-players that really go the distance...  they learn to read very well later on and then they are the most expressive players.. 

[adodd81802]

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[keypeg]

Having the ability to read piano music is a good skill to have and it can be developed.  As a musician who already plays other pieces, it is natural that you will end up memorizing a piece such as this one fairly quickly, since it has such a simply structure and is predictable.  However you can do two things:  aim to develop your reading ability away from the piece, and also approach the piece itself differently.

If you work on the piece in order, playing an entire section, then its musical aspect will have you memorizing it.  But if you look at some measure anywhere in the piece, and not necessarily the first beat, and try to play those particular notes, you'll be focusing on the notes and piano keys that correspond to it.  What you want to do in piano is to relate a musical note to a piano key.  Every instrument is different.  In keyboards, that is the relationship.  You can also focus on the physicality of it - how is your hand moving, and so forth.

I play a number of instruments, and came into proper reading skills quite late.  I can also do a fair bit of predicting as well as relating to pure sound, and do not want to suppress those abilities as "interfering with reading".  But I do want to acquire good reading skills.  That does not mean "sight reading" - where an accompanist is handed a score she has never seen before and can dash it off.  But the ability to pick up a score, and at least slowly, play what is there so that I can see what the music is about, or work with it.

[mrdrums]

Thank you all for the responses. This is really constructive, balanced advice and it makes me feel more confident in my approach. I especially like the part about picking a random measure from the piece in working on and sight reading it. That sounds like a great practice.

[dcstudio]

"sight reading" - where an accompanist is handed a score she has never seen before and can dash it off.

myths and legends have sprung up around people with this ability... it seems to be the pinnacle of all knowing mastery and it is most definitely not that at all.   So many times non-musical people or inexperienced musical people weave these magical tales about pianists who seemingly can play anything at all... the legend almost always cites a reason that this person is not "famous."  These tales become taller and taller as they are told with the goal to impress--not provide accurate accounts of actual events.   People love to tell me about these other really amazing players they know... my uncles, brother-in-law's, cousin, could sight-read anything...lol    You don't prima vista sight-read when you perform... unless you have NO choice.  I have this ability but it's not that big of a deal...   being able to sit for 2 hours at a piano on a stage and entertain people with NO sheet music is far more impressive... wouldn't you agree?

unless the pianist says...wow I have never seen this before--(which an actual pro would NEVER do--)  how do you know she has never seen it?   I get the same music over and over and over when I accompany.

[xdjuicebox]

Most kids learn to speak before they learn to read. Piano should be the same.

[dcstudio]

Most kids learn to speak before they learn to read. Piano should be the same.

I taught my own daughter that way.   Oh did I ever get a load of crap from the other musical members of my family for that...  until my daughter won all-state two years in a row as a vocalist, made first chair Fr. Horn, and landed the 1 piano player spot in the HS jazz band. Oh and for fun--she plays guitar and sings in a band with her friends.

her musical education is very well-rounded and diverse.   She is discovering the big rep now and she has the chops and foundation to do it right.  I taught her to play and let her other music teachers focus on the reading.  (besides--it's impossible to teach your own kid that stuff... you will go bonkers!!!) I discussed it with her and helped her here and there but I have let her study at her own pace.   I have never pushed her and I am ALWAYS supportive...   it's working, too... she's way ahead of the game.

Now she wants me to teach her... she wants my help with stuff.   My sister rode her child's butt until the poor kid gave up completely.  He refuses to do ANY music now.   In my family--that is sacrilege...lol

[louispodesta]

Hi. I am a musician by training but am new to piano. Reading has been moderately difficult meaning that I can read already but getting it on the piano is a struggle.

I have started out with Mozart Menuet KV2 and it seems to be an appropriate level for me.

However I am noticing that I'm memorizing the piece before I can read it well. I can play the first 8 measures but as soon as I look back up at the music I get all fumbly. Is this normal or should I continue to try and play the piece while looking at the music? Or should I just continue to hack away, memorize more of it from the sheet music and the reading will eventually come together?

First, the brilliant scholars who manage this website need to focus their efforts more on teaching "first posters," as to how to research prior posts:

Therefore ONCE AGAIN!!, I proffer suggestions on this topic from multiple prior posts: 

"When I was young, I could memorize any new piece for my next lesson, so I never learned how to properly sight read.  When I was in music school, the very best accompanist in the U.S. could not teach me how to read.

So, at the age of 50, I finally made up my mind that I could learn how to read, and I did.  Mind you, I am not a great sight reader, but I improved well enough to read through 44 piano concertos in 5 years.

Accordingly:

1)  One needs to realize that the physical skill of basic sight reading is exactly the same neuro-process as learning how to type.  Its mechanization involves familiarity with a keyboard so you can get around without looking down.

2)  The first book you get is "You Can Sight Read Vol.I," by Lorina Havill who taught it at Juilliard for years.  It has exercises where you play single notes, double notes, triads, and then seventh chords up and down the piano in octave sections (all without looking down).

In terms of metronome markings, you start out as slow as you can in order to obtain accuracy (even though it doesn't seem possible at first).  If you practice this every day for a suggested 20 minutes, you eventually will get to where you can feel your way around the keyboard.

Remember, IT IS JUST LIKE LEARNING HOW TO TYPE!!

3)  There is a ten book series entitled "Four Star Sight Reading and Ear Tests, Daily Exercises For Piano Students," by Boris Berlin (required by all UK Royal Conservatory of Music matriculates).  These are very short (cheap) paperback books that contain short pieces at various levels of sight reading.

They have a mixture of all genres, including church hymnal scores.  Also, they have sight singing drills and rhythmic practice sections, which are essential to sight reading.  I recommend that you get volumes 7-10.  Once again, they are very inexpensive.

4)  Regarding Boris Berlin, then (as with the Lorina Havill books) set the metronome at the lowest possible setting where you can read without stopping (and not looking down!), and then read for about 20 minutes a day, and no more.  It is very important that you realize that if you go more than that, it will turn into drudgery and you will hate it.

In my opinion, a very major part of any pianists daily practice routine is to be very cognizant of repetitious drudgery, whether it involves any particular piece or a special skill such as sight reading.  Therefore, a great idea is start every practice session by practicing your sight reading.

5)  Therefore, after you have read through to volume 10 at a slow and steady speed, then you go back to volume number seven, slightly increase the tempo, and then read through to volume.  The reason they have utilized this methodology at the Royal College of Music (forever), is that it works!

6)  In about a year or two, your sight reading will have improved by about 300%.  A good basic yardstick is being able to sight read through Mozart or Haydn piano sonatas at a moderate tempo.  From there, you can decide on whether you want to study accompanying and increase your ability accordingly.

7)  So, practice the first book to develop your ability to get around the keyboard without looking down, and then the Four Star series to practice actual reading.

  In regards dcstudio, my major instructor, (the late Dr. Jack Roberts) was a renowned sight reader accompanist.  However, late in life, he admitted to me in a personal conversation that he was in essence an ear player.

Good luck to you OP, and remember, it is important to learn music your own way and not particular to my suggestion or anyone eles's.  Please contact me by PM if you need any further advice.

[indianajo]

Hi. I am a musician by training but am new to piano.
However I am noticing that I'm memorizing the piece before I can read it well.

I too memorized fairly easily.  I made sure back when (at age 65 I'm not that good anymore) I played the piece slowly enough that I could be sure I was playing the right notes when i did it.  Memorizing the wrong notes is very embarrasing, and liable in the future to fuzziness as to which set of movement are the right ones.  so, IMHO SLOW DOWN to where you are reading the notes completely,  and memorize it right the first time.  In 1959-1966  Mother had to pay a teacher to point out the wrong notes to me in the early part of learning a piece. She used black, and if repeated, red pencil, around the wrong note.   
Now we have $.50 LP's , free tracks on the internet, and paid for phone recorders,  where you can listen to yourself and compare the sound to the real thing, to see if you have it wrong.  Teachers are still useful for learning posture and physical tricks, and some will teach you their preferred interpretation. The last part I can do without, thank you.  I don't learn music to make a good grade or take some alphabet test to get a piece of paper.
As far as analyzing the structure of the piece and commiting that to memory, more power to you and I don't have a clue about that.  The music runs through my head like a free jukebox, the movements come out of the hands without thinking just like a softball player's , and connecting the two skills, ie playing by ear, is something I am just beginning to come to terms with in my sixth decade.    

[dcstudio]

  In regards dcstudio, my major instructor, (the late Dr. Jack Roberts) was a renowned sight reader accompanist.  However, late in life, he admitted to me in a personal conversation that he was in essence an ear player.

I believe you told me that our late professor said he was a "fly by the seat of his pants" pianist... which I totally get. (I have bitchin' long-term memory, too)  It's so weird that you should repeat his words to me and I can relate so well to them...because I was scared sh!tless of him in 1990. Maybe he is trying to apologize to me from beyond the grave for watering his plants during my juries...lol.   That guy profoundly influenced the course of my life... for better or for worse.  Your story of your experience at UNT and your conversations with him near the end of his life kind of helped me to forgive him for being...him... and focus on all that I learned instead... I am now so grateful that I had the opportunity to know him..  he was a pretty amazing musician.  May God Rest His Soul.  RIP Dr. R

[louispodesta]

Thank you for you kind words, however, me thinks that Dr. Roberts and many before him, knew the secret.  And, that is the ability to sight read anything, like my late father (who could transpose at will in all twelve keys).

Additionally, you have people like Earl Wild, who was finishing up a London recording session of a particular piano concerto, when the conductor received a desperate telephone call.

The next session was to record the Tchaikovsky Concerto, and the soloist was sick and could not perform.  The conductor looked over at Mr. Wild, and inquired as to whether he would consider filling in when the next session started in 30 minutes!

Earl Wild said yes, if they could get him the score immediately, which they did, and he went on to record said concerto, for which I have the recording.  So, this BS about sight reading and memorizing is just that, BS!

Richter could sight read, at the age of eighteen, orchestral scores.  Christopher Guzman, of Penn State, can do the same.  He learned and memorized the Scarbo from the Gaspar in 4 weeks in his early 20's.  And (unbeknownst to him), I heard him learn and memorize the Liszt Sonata in 6 weeks.

Therefore, it is one of my goals to break this code or silence, which will allow all pianists to gain this valuable skill.  My gut tells me that it all has to do with the ability to hear the bass line when sight reading and then be able to fill in the harmony by ear, just as the pre-classical keyboardists did with figured bass.

Earl Wild's first instrument was the Cello and so was Christopher Guzman's.  Anyone here ever sat next to a bass player in a music theory class, and wonder why they never made less than a grade of 100 on any harmonic dictation exam?

[larasmusic]

If you're only trying to learn that piece, as long as you are memorizing correctly that is not a problem. However, if you're trying to learn how to actually read, you must start with easier music. Try my course for free at www.larasmusic.com starting from Module 2 if you already know the staff, note values, etc. I guide you through the process of how to actually train yourself to learn how to read music rather than need to memorize everything you learn.

Have fun and please let me know how I can help!