It's Finally here! A recording of Chopin's Revolutionary Etude
in octaves!!...

i wasn't aware we were waiting for this.

certainly interesting thats for sure. I dont think there are a lot of people who can do this, your mechanical skill is superb. however I would love to see you direct all of that talent to something that's a little more meaningful. I would much prefer to hear a delicately played mazurka by chopin or you....

Just a suggestion.

thumbs up. I never understood godowsky

In the first parenthetical insert of this post, I forgot to write
"almost"; i.e., (at least ALMOST entirely in octaves)

and in the reference to Prok's 7th sonata I should have concluded
with "on the Internet". My bad. 

Can you provide a link to this video? I can't seem to find it.

woooow man! It is true that the right hand gets a bit too much covered by the left, but still, really amazing stuff!
I wish I had 1/100th of your talent.
Your channel could use some improvement on the video&sound side though, it would be nice to watch your performances in high quality.

I misspelled "Mallory" in my earlier post, leaving out the essential "r" in his last name. Still, I'm sure anyone reading (or remembering) the quote won't be too offended by my typo.

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I like dantesonata's explanation :-))

@adodd:
I was just making other examples of pieces which have been adjusted in a technically complicated way without necessarily an improvement on the quality of the piece itself (but then again, beauty is in the eye, or ear in this case, of the beholder).

The problem with the "stunt" word I used might arise from the fact that English is not my first language I meant to use stunt as in the movies, indicating a particularly difficult and acrobatic movement, so nothing to detract from the performance, but maybe it doesn't sound right in English.

Would you rate this piece differently if he played in a concert hall with 10'000 people applauding instead of in an old flat? Or if he had played many other pieces in his channel? Maybe the guy just didn't have the time/will/contacts/luck/whatever to be a succesful player in a big theater. Maybe he also didn't have the time to upload many other pieces that he's capable of playing.
But even if he cannot play much else, I personally think that we should judge a performance as a unique entity, without caring of its success, of how many people applaud, nor of what other performances the same person is capable of doing.

Still, I suppose you're not much into chops and more into "emotional" pieces, so I guess I can understand your point. Nothing that I could argue with. I just think that both things have their place in music. Must be 'cause I'm still a beginner and I get easily excited by showoffsy technical skills :-)

The reason you don't see him live in Carnegie hall is because his skill is in video editing.

LOL   the hands just don't look right.. I agree.

it's funny how people think that simply being a great pianist means you will get noticed and make it to Carnegie hall.   I believed at one time that if I just got my chops in shape everything else would fall into place and I would have all the gigs I want.   One day the powers that be would somehow sense my "warp signature" from playing at the speed of light and come to collect me and make me a world famous concert pianist.  
  That is so not the way it works...  it takes planning self-promotion, marketing--all of which you do on your own until you hit the big time.   This guy doesn't seem to be a very charismatic player... dramatic and extreme.. yes.   engaging...not really. Although it is mildly impressive it's not the kind of thing that will sell out concert halls.

Certainly an interesting biography/rant: http://antoniodomingos.net/about

Exactly as I thought.  Piano for this person is sport - not art.

I'm not sure how that biography "confirmed" in any way that "piano for this person is sport - not art".

Also, I still don't understand why one must watch a video in a concert hall and/or read a bio before judging a piece of music. How did you guys do before the internet? Have you never appreciated any previously unknown music at the radio? I'm somehow missing something.

I remember there was an interesting experiment some years ago:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/pearls-before-breakfast-can-one-of-the-nations-great-musicians-cut-through-the-fog-of-a-dc-rush-hour-lets-find-out/2014/09/23/8a6d46da-4331-11e4-b47c-f5889e061e5f_story.html

I guess it's not definite proof of anything, as people in a metro are generally in a hurry, but still this guy went from general acclaim in concert halls to being ignored in a subway. Somehow goes to show how the perception of a person are often dictated by the judgement of other individuals instead of what they personally really think about a piece of music.

Would you not question ONE video that shows an extremely difficult performance being nailed, from a guy that's been rejected from every music school and lost every music competition he's ever entered.

YES! and something is strange in that vid.


rejected by every music school... schools are businesses and they almost always take your money and let you in... it's getting out that's tough.   Rejected by the labels and the festivals.. 

why do you suppose he takes up so much of his bio recounting the exact number of times he has been rejected and by whom?   that's kinda odd.   He seems to be presenting those numbers like it's work experience.  It does show tenacity but says something entirely different about his performance ability.  IDK it sounds like he really believed he should have been signed --or booked--or allowed to go to university...   one things for sure... that bio won't get him a lot of gigs--but maybe that's not what he is after.

well, Liszt is said by some to have been the first rockstar. I wouldn't have any problem imagining him doing wacky technical stuff with the sole purpose to inflame the crowd. This doesn't lessen his artistic value one bit. Emotion in music is not just about bringing tears to your eyes, the excitement caused by awesome chops is an emotion too, just a different one.  I personally think that technique cannot be separated by the music itself so sharply as many other people do.
Of course this might be the only thing that this guy is capable of doing, we don't know for sure and are juding solely based on the biography and a couple of videos. Even if it was the case, I still would be extremely jealous of this guy's technique and I wouldn't criticize this particular piece for that. But at this point, let's just agree to disagree
I must admit that the biography is weird though! I'm not that surprised by the fact that he didn't get in any school or festival, because this is very possible when (I suppose) aiming at the top institutions/events where the talents abound and the competition is fierce, so even very skilled musicians can be left out. But still, was it really necessary to write it all in the Bio? That's kinda funny! Too Much Information! Definitely a faux pas from the "marketing" standpoint.

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I was not aware Liszt played rock and roll music, all the music i find is romantic piano and orchestral work.

Wasn't he that dude who bit a bat's head off during a concert?   




Adodd, the reason why I use "highly reputable pianists" to make my examples is exactly because, using the reasoning you used with this guy, you might as well end up criticizing "highly reputable pianists" unknowingly.
Let's absurdly suppose that at the times of Liszt one guy doesn't t know who Liszt is, and the only time he comes across him is during a short but inflamed uber-technical performance.
Using your reasoning, this guy wouldn't think much of Liszt. He would think "meh, too much technique, zero emotion". He would be juding based on limited information.
Therefore, when I see such kind of performance, the first thing I think is not "why?" but "wow, great chops". If at a later time I happen to see another performance from the same player, showing "emotional content" as well, even better. But I do think that technique is a necessary (but not sufficient) aspect of a great pianist.

Jimroof, the thing is, why would you want to understand the why of it? What would it change of your enjoyment of the music? My very personal opinion is that the reason behind a piece shouldn't matter in the evaluation of the piece itself. Even if it's made just to show off, I don't see what the problem is. If I had those chops, I would definitely do it too. Plus, I guess it can be just considered as an etude (it IS indeed a more complicated version of an etude), therefore its main aim is mastering a technique, and my personal guess is that the guy performing this wouldn't have any problems in easliy performing other music where the use of fast octaves is required.

Guys, this is the internet and sometimes it's difficult to understand other people's mood, so I would just like to clarify, in case it's needed, that I'm not trying to get polemical and I'm just trying to have a civilized conversion about a topic I'm genuinely interested about (I might open another focused thread about it in the future) and I do respect your opinions 100%. I've seen older threads deteriorating into wars in this website (the hanon book threads were a favorite place for this kinds of occurrences   ) so I just wanted to write this paragraph in order to make sure that we're cool.

What people ARE trying to understand is the WHY of it.  I know there was a time in the romantic era when pianists would strive for more and more technique.  Some did for the sake of the music and some did for the sake of attention.  I recall my edition of the Chopin Gm Ballade including the alternate fingering for a double minor thirds scale at the end of the piece (not in minor 10ths, but in minor thirds in each hand).  How anyone could do that at the now accepted speed of that run was beyond me.  Maybe someone COULD do it.  

I digress.  Music is communication above all else.  I would rather hear someone who has something to say as opposed to hear someone talk loud and fast, with perfect elocution, but just running on about nothing.

Friedman (iirc) closes his recording of the Minute Waltz with a lightning fast run in thirds instead of the usual scale.

I wouldn't say the performer has "made music" here, but nevertheless there is obvious merit in the sense that this feat, for what it's worth, is a documented part of historical performance legend, and the performer has managed to replicate it. Thie video doesn't imply the performer is not a musician. It should be just taken for what it is - a remarkable technical feat documented for the first time on video.

His bio is curious: it suggests a certain level of grudge-holding against the establishment and one can only speculate as to why.

Also not for the first time xD

I hadn't seen this before, but it's not really up to tempo is it? I could probably do that after a few days' practice. The OP's video is in a different class altogether.

While nobody should fail to appreciate the physical skills required to pull this off, everybody should also ask themselves... "why?".

I would never want to hear Mozart's Symphony 41 played in octaves or hear a two part invention played in octaves.

I'm fairly certain I've read somewhere that one of the famous conservatoires (Moscow or Paris, I think) at one time prescribed the F maj two part invention in octaves in both hands as an exercise.

I'm fairly certain I've read somewhere that one of the famous conservatoires (Moscow or Paris, I think) at one time prescribed the F maj two part invention in octaves in both hands as an exercise.

some teachers can be cruel 

I would never want to hear Mozart's Symphony 41 played in octaves or hear a two part invention played in octaves (hmmm... now there's an idea for you...  Try the A minor 2 part in octaves...).  OK.  Maybe I would be curious to hear that one, but the point is, the music suffers so much from the athleticism that it is hard to listen to.

Hi jimroof,

Here is Invention No. 14 partly in octaves starting at around 50 seconds in.  

Personally, I honestly believe that Chopin would have approved of this version of the 'Revolutionary', given the  feelings of revolt he must have felt, what with his homeland having been under siege at the time he wrote it. I remember reading in "The Great Pianists" by Harold Schoenberg about a young man (I believe one of Chopin's own students), who apologized for having broken a string while playing the 'Military' Polonaise for Chopin himself, to which the great master retorted, "Young man, if I had your strength, there wouldn't be a single string left in that piano by the time I had been finished."

People often forget that a piano is capable of much more than churning out prissy-wissy melodies and intimate dinner music. To me the piano is closer to an orchestra- capable of expressing the most powerful, noble, and repressed of human sentiments- while maintaining the precision of attack of a grinding ratchet or of a gumball burst.

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I also remember the same extract of information you're referring too.

However there are 2 things to consider, against and for.
Against
Firstly, Would Chopin not have composed it himself, in octaves, had that not been what he desired? He composed octave Etudes, so I would be inclined to conclude that this was not designed to be embellished in such a way. The lacking musicality becomes evident as you listen to the performance, it's not pleasing to the ears.

For
Secondly, and referring back to that Liszt extract, Chopin was known to have improvised on his own works and quoted to have played the same piece differently every time. Piano improvisation in general, I am certain was praised. Further, one may pick out a little jealousy between the two with such a comment, I further read that Chopin was in awe at how Liszt performed his Etudes, and despite Chopin's over all style and recluse to the Salon, you must ponder the thought that had he had that virtuoso confidence, would he had not preferred to have been appreciated upon a stage?

@adodd81802 I suspect that if Chopin had had Liszt's or Dreyschock's technique, he just might have written the Revolutionary etude, or something similar, in octaves. Ignoring the fact that he never wrote anything that was technically nearly as difficult as that, don't forget that had he had been endowed with superior physical reflexes, and hadn't been so sickly and frail, he would have FELT the piano differently, thus inducing him to write for it differently. But what with the way things were, I reckon that he might have in fact, freaked out if he had heard it performed in octaves, instead of in single notes, but, after having had some time to reflect on the sound and ultimate impression and let his ego cool down a little, he just might have come to realize, "Ah...... yes, THAT'S the way it should be done......"

Personally, I never liked this Etude much at all UNTIL I started playing it in octaves- it simply acquired a new dimension at that point. If you could name anything at all more technically challenging, I would really appreciate that; I'm seriously very curious to know if any composer has come up with something more difficult- if it's really good music, I just might feel compelled to tackle it.

It is obvious why this pianist has been unsuccessful at music schools, record labels, and so on: What he is doing has nothing to do with what they are doing, other than that they both involve pressing on keys.

He ought to look into playing keyboards for a progressive metal band. That is a genre where acrobatic feats are often prioritized over the music itself (moreso than in progressive rock). He could be enormously successful. I imagine that he could go down in history as they greatest and most respected progressive metal keyboardist of all time.

Thanks, preludetr, I really appreciate your suggestion. I even might seriously consider it, as long as 1) I can find a band that's willing to accept me and 2) it will be only a part-time thing that won't interfere with my career as a classical-oriented pianist. The thought has crossed my mind, honestly, but I've never even ventured into that type of music- although I certainly don't think it would be even nearly as difficult to learn or perform as classical/romantic stuff.

However, with regard to schools, competitions, etc., you've got it all wrong: I've been rejected from every piano competition I've played in since the year 2000 - a total of 8 - and I assure you, except in maybe 3 cases, it wasn't due to banging, excessive speed, or lack of poetry or finesse (or even making too many mistakes, for that matter). Apart from those 3 occasions I just mentioned, in which case I simply hadn't had the time to prepare adequately and made a mess on the stage, I was eliminated invariably from the 1st round in all of them, having competed against some contestants who did little more during the course of their performances than press keys, like a bookkeeper would do on a typewriter. And once I auditioned for a school, whose name I'm not going to mention, where one of the professors on the panel of my audition was so unbelievably arrogant and condescending, that I knew I wouldn't be accepted there right from the start. Not that I needed that school for anything- I just was trying to get a scholarship so that I could reside for a year or two in one of Europe's big capitals. Anyway, when I arrived home, I looked up that professor on the Internet, and listened to an audio sample of his playing on a music streaming service. Guess what? He played like an ALS victim in handcuffs might have done- which leads me to suspect that when it comes to competitions, music schools, master classes, the thing which plays the biggest role isn't talent, or level of achievement - it's jealousy. I also have a theory about competitions, which I'm not going to elaborate on as of yet, but it pretty much explains why stuff like this goes on- especially when the contestants whom I expect to be competing against in the 3rd round are all eliminated from the 1st, just like me- and you'd be surprised why I think it happens.

By the way, just to show that I can actually turn around and offer a a contemplative, poetic reading of non-super-virtuosic, craze-driven tours-de-force, here's a recording of mine that I think you might enjoy:



Regards,

Octave

By the way, just to show that I can actually turn around and offer a a contemplative, poetic reading of non-super-virtuosic, craze-driven tours-de-force, here's a recording of mine that I think you might enjoy:

Is that really you playing?