Piano Forum

Topic: Chopin Berceuse Op. 57 in D Flat Major  (Read 4892 times)

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2119
Chopin Berceuse Op. 57 in D Flat Major
on: March 11, 2016, 06:55:27 AM
I have worked on this one on and off for about 2 and a half weeks. It is not perfect obviously it is actually pretty horrible lol but I need to move on to other things. I will appreciate feedback. This little stinker is actually pretty technically challenging for non-serious practice over 2 weeks. Let me know what you think :)

You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline mjames

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2557
Re: Chopin Berceuse Op. 57 in D Flat Major
Reply #1 on: March 11, 2016, 07:07:43 AM
Not experienced enough to give any critiques but I can tell (well any schmuck can!) that you're still not comfortable with it yet. Needless to say I quite enjoyed your playing. Well done.

Offline philolog

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 94
Re: Chopin Berceuse Op. 57 in D Flat Major
Reply #2 on: March 11, 2016, 01:04:58 PM
While the technique may not be totally perfected, you have a lot of poetry in your playing and in the end, I think that's probably the most important ingredient for a successful performance of the piece. Having heard some of your Chopin Concerto tape, it's obvious that you have the requisite fluency to play this up to whatever standard you desire.

One interpretive comment if I may: I get the feeling that you hadn't established an overarching tempo in your mind before beginning.

It's understandable why there are many slow performances of the Berceuse----after all, the title indicates that it's a lullaby and the music is very persuasive when heard from that perspective. However, did you know that it's one of those pieces the title of which was chosen by someone other than the composer? Lisitsa claims that it was originally written as a serious of variations and can therefore accommodate a considerably faster tempo. At the risk of corrupting your ideas about the piece, you might like to listen to Josef Hoffman's, to some, scandalous rendition. I'm quite fond of it. Certainly, trying to imitate him is good for the technique if nothing else and you can always revert to your original conception.

Offline philolog

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 94
Re: Chopin Berceuse Op. 57 in D Flat Major
Reply #3 on: March 11, 2016, 01:09:27 PM
In my previous post I must have unconsciously substituted "serious" for "series." Probably just a typo, but who knows?

Offline birba

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3725
Re: Chopin Berceuse Op. 57 in D Flat Major
Reply #4 on: March 11, 2016, 02:05:42 PM
There are indeed some beautiful moments in your berceuse.  (despite that awful amplitude of the sound.  How did you record this?  and do you have a troupe following you around to take different angles of your playing?  Love it.)   I think you know it has to go a bit faster.  (That way you won't have to speed up in certain sections like you did!)  That's one of the reasons it sounds a little plodding now.  Just like you mold many of those phrases in the right hand beautifully,  do the same with the ostinato bass.  i personally feel it with a resonant base and a slight diminuendo in the last three chords.  At any rate, make it sound like a musical phrase.  And it should stay basically the same speed throughout.  Too many ritardandos.  ritardandos that may be alright in themselves, but not here in the berceuse.  No, I don't find this piece easy at all.  It's so clear and exposed.  Almost like MOzart.  You hear everything, no matter how much pedal you use.  And by the way, you make fine use of the pedal.

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2119
Re: Chopin Berceuse Op. 57 in D Flat Major
Reply #5 on: March 11, 2016, 03:02:14 PM
Not experienced enough to give any critiques but I can tell (well any schmuck can!) that you're still not comfortable with it yet. Needless to say I quite enjoyed your playing. Well done.

Thank you mjames!! I will pick it back up, perhaps in a few years, and get that darn technique down ;)

While the technique may not be totally perfected, you have a lot of poetry in your playing and in the end, I think that's probably the most important ingredient for a successful performance of the piece. Having heard some of your Chopin Concerto tape, it's obvious that you have the requisite fluency to play this up to whatever standard you desire.

Well thank you philolog. That is quite a compliment. My teacher has taught me a lot about poetry over the years I am very grateful.

One interpretive comment if I may: I get the feeling that you hadn't established an overarching tempo in your mind before beginning.

Guilty as charged. Oops. Idiot noah

It's understandable why there are many slow performances of the Berceuse----after all, the title indicates that it's a lullaby and the music is very persuasive when heard from that perspective. However, did you know that it's one of those pieces the title of which was chosen by someone other than the composer? Lisitsa claims that it was originally written as a series of variations and can therefore accommodate a considerably faster tempo. At the risk of corrupting your ideas about the piece, you might like to listen to Josef Hoffman's, to some, scandalous rendition. I'm quite fond of it. Certainly, trying to imitate him is good for the technique if nothing else and you can always revert to your original conception.

Thanks for the input. I will consider the ferrari tempo. Thank you for the insightful post!

In my previous post I must have unconsciously substituted "serious" for "series." Probably just a typo, but who knows?

Ok, not so insightful.... XD haha I changed it for you in my quote

There are indeed some beautiful moments in your berceuse.  (despite that awful amplitude of the sound.  How did you record this?  and do you have a troupe following you around to take different angles of your playing?  Love it.)   I think you know it has to go a bit faster.  (That way you won't have to speed up in certain sections like you did!)  That's one of the reasons it sounds a little plodding now.  Just like you mold many of those phrases in the right hand beautifully,  do the same with the ostinato bass.  i personally feel it with a resonant base and a slight diminuendo in the last three chords.  At any rate, make it sound like a musical phrase.  And it should stay basically the same speed throughout.  Too many ritardandos.  ritardandos that may be alright in themselves, but not here in the berceuse.  No, I don't find this piece easy at all.  It's so clear and exposed.  Almost like MOzart.  You hear everything, no matter how much pedal you use.  And by the way, you make fine use of the pedal.

I'm sorry, I have a recorded in which the notes come through clear and LOUD AND ROUGH. It does not sound like that in real life. Yes, it should be faster. I know. I think Pollini picks a pretty good tempo. I will work on that 3-note dim. in the left hand. Thanks about the pedal :) And thanks for your time to type all that out. I will consider it carefully!

Thank you all for listening :D
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline kawai_cs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 572
Re: Chopin Berceuse Op. 57 in D Flat Major
Reply #6 on: March 11, 2016, 10:03:03 PM
Noah, I admire it how fast you learn new pieces! Just a few days ago I heard this little snippet and now you play the whole thing so beautifully!
I just love how you feel at home with Chopin's music. I hope to see you in Warsaw in a few years;-)
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2119
Re: Chopin Berceuse Op. 57 in D Flat Major
Reply #7 on: March 13, 2016, 01:06:52 AM
Noah, I admire it how fast you learn new pieces! Just a few days ago I heard this little snippet and now you play the whole thing so beautifully!
I just love how you feel at home with Chopin's music. I hope to see you in Warsaw in a few years;-)


Thanks kawai! I'm sorry I didn't have a lot of time to spend on it. I just have to move on to new things. But I hope you enjoy it :D
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert