hardest piece for piano

[BoliverAllmon]

I was talking with my friend and we started discussing what was the hardest piano piece ever written. So, far I have found many people who believe Donald Martino's "Pianississimo" is the hardest. I haven't heard a recording and the sheet music costs 45$ online, so I don't know. What do you think?

Boliver Allmon III

[SteveK]

Ravel's Scarbo

[trunks]

Hey Boliver,

Such notion as the hardest piece to play is inappropriate on music. The hardest piece for the piano is simply non-existent, my friend. For any existing hard piece I can write something harder than it.

There is indeed an infinite number of combinations of notes in a piece that could make that piece hard to play. So what's the point looking for some fictitious entity?

[comme_le_vent]

there is such a thing as the hardest piece worth playing - and i would assign that title to godowsky's passacaglia.

[trunks]

hm . . . godowsky!
curiously, why not your favourite alkan?

[comme_le_vent]

alkan isnt as demanding as godowsky - playing godowsky is like playing bach - but even more complex.

the passacaglia in particular is a theme and variations, using virtually ever piano technique known to man, you have to be extremely contrapuntally sensetive while dealing with these obstacles - you cant simply plow through it - unlike some alkan.
its also extremely difficult to hold together cohesively - as it is 20 minutes long.

there are of course harder pieces to play , but i feel this is the hardest in a tonal romantic style.

beyond romantic piece we get to boulez,sorabji, ligeti and xenakis(sp) which push the boundaries of the physically possible.
but the thing is - do you think these are great pieces of music?

i think that the godowsky passacaglia is the most difficult work in a generally appealing style.

[trunks]

Oh I have only vaguely heard of the Godowsky Passacaglia, but never heard the actual music. Where could I find the score and a recording?

I have heard many of Godowsky's re-writing of the Chopin Etudes. To be very frank I don't like them at all. Although highly showy elements abound in these works, the music in the original Chopin is sadly - quite brutally - taken away. The variant for Chopin's E major Etude (Op.10 No.3), however, was nicely done for left hand alone but - AHEM! - in Db major!

[comme_le_vent]

marc-andre hamelin's recording is AWESOME - impossible to beat.

i have the score, but i dont know a site to download it from.

and i completely disagree with your comments on the chopin-godowsky etudes.

they are independent pieces and they completely stand on their own, they arent showy at all, they are actually much more difficult to play than they sound, unlike most liszt which is easier to play than it sounds.

they arent meant to be played as extovertedly as the originals, they are inward and sensetive, and extremely rich and dense.

listen to them as pieces of music and not as stunt works, and listen more - hear all those added melodies and counterpoints and textures - this is incredibly inventive piano composition.

[anda]

technically difficult? try manuel infante "el vito" and tell me what you think.

[BoliverAllmon]

I am still curious. has anyone heard this piece by Donald martino?

[stevie]

I am still curious. has anyone heard this piece by Donald martino?

[g_s_223]

Xenakis' Herma is up there...

[BoliverAllmon]

I know those pieces are hard. i want to know if anyone has heard of pianississimo

[apion]

I know those pieces are hard. i want to know if anyone has heard of pianississimo

No, apparently.

[kreso]

I think that the most difficult pieces for piano are Chopin-Godowsky studies. It's very difficult to play them with such easines and clarity and yet to try to focus listeners ear to hear originaly Chopin Etude.

Also I think that originaly versions of Liszt's Transcedental Studies and Paganin Studies are almos unplayable.. Liszt was realy crazy (Remember extremly difficult Don Juan Fantasy... )

And I also heard that Hamelin wrote some Studies which he (!!!) found almost unplayable. Can you imagine that Hamelin canot (?-I think he can) play some of theme...

[tompilk]

Alkan solo concerto or Opus Clavicembalisticum or Finnissey...

[sara81]

Ofcourse...Godowsky.
Although the Balkirew's Islamey isn't a piece of cake

[sevencircles]

Also I think that originaly versions of Liszt's Transcedental Studies and Paganini Studies are almos unplayable

What´s the best recordings of the original versions?

[ahinton]

And I also heard that Hamelin wrote some Studies which he (!!!) found almost unplayable. Can you imagine that Hamelin canot (?-I think he can) play some of theme...

The only one of Hamelin's studies that he himself has not played is the first of his projeted set of 12 in all the minor keys which is a transcription of The Flight of the Bumble Bee.

Best,

Alistair

[steinwaymodeld]

The only one of Hamelin's studies that he himself has not played is the first of his projeted set of 12 in all the minor keys which is a transcription of The Flight of the Bumble Bee.

Best,

Alistair

I believe his score of the Bumblebee etude is for sale, so is there any recording out there played by other pianists or people?

[mikey6]

Also I think that originaly versions of Liszt's Transcedental Studies

the original version of the etudes was done in the 1820's called 'etudes en douze excercises' - there vaguley similar to the later versions.  I'm guessing your thinking of the 1838 (i think) version.

[trunks]

the original version of the etudes was done in the 1820's called 'etudes en douze excercises' - there vaguley similar to the later versions.  I'm guessing your thinking of the 1838 (i think) version.

1837. I only know of Leslie Howard who recorded this version together with the final (1851) version.

[presto agitato]

This question again?

The hardest piece is something that you can not play. As simple as that.

Example: I will never be able to play Chopin Op 10-1 but i know a guy who plays this etude with much facility but this guy can not play a fugue (5 voice) by Bach and i do.

Anyway, Leslie Howard told me that Hammerklavier sonata is the hardest piano piece ever.

[ahinton]

I believe his score of the Bumblebee etude is for sale, so is there any recording out there played by other pianists or people?

It is indeed; we sell it ourselves. For further information, please write to
sorabji-archive@lineone.net

We are not aware that anyone has recorded or performed Hamelin's "Bumble Bee" study yet.

By the way - is there a difference between "pianists" and "people"?

Best,

Alistair

[mikey6]

1837. I only know of Leslie Howard who recorded this version together with the final (1851) version.

ok maybe so, but the music to the 1826 version is printed in the second volume of the Konemann edition of Liszt's piano music.  Some of the revisions are new but most are based on the 1826 version with beefed-up technical difficulty's.

[ibbar]

Yes, I am familiar with Pianississimo (both recording and score).

It is very difficult, probably more difficult than pieces such as the Boulez Sonate #2, but I really don't care for it musically.

[JCarey]

Yes, I am familiar with Pianississimo (both recording and score).

It is very difficult, probably more difficult than pieces such as the Boulez Sonate #2, but I really don't care for it musically.

Is it possible that you might share the score and the recording? I saw the sheets for sale on SheetMusicPlus and the recording on amazon.com, but I'm afraid I just don't have the money right now to pay for something like that.

If you don't want to share the whole piece, would you mind at least posting some samples?

[ibbar]

I'll see if I can save the file of the recording from the disc to my computer and email it to you.  If not, I'll try to work something else out.

The score was from the library, so I'll re-request it but I can't be sure how long it'll take to get here.  Normally, I photocopy scores that I take out, but I didn't bother with this one, as I don't plan to learn it.

[JCarey]

I'll see if I can save the file of the recording from the disc to my computer and email it to you.  If not, I'll try to work something else out.

The score was from the library, so I'll re-request it but I can't be sure how long it'll take to get here.  Normally, I photocopy scores that I take out, but I didn't bother with this one, as I don't plan to learn it.

Thanks much, I'd really appreciate it! It would benefit many others as well, since I have often seen requests to see/hear this piece on other forums, but nobody has scanned it yet.

My email is jcarey_compositions@yahoo.com.

Best regards,
John Carey

[liszt-essence]

1837. I only know of Leslie Howard who recorded this version together with the final (1851) version.

The Transcendental Etudes (sometimes Études d'exécution transcendante or Transcendental Studies) is a series of twelve compositions written for solo piano by Hungarian composer Franz Liszt, begun in 1826 and finalized in 1851.

The first version of the etudes was published in 1826 under the title Étude en douze exercices, when Liszt was 15 years old. In 1839, a second version, Douze Grandes Etudes, was published simultaneously in Paris, Milan and Vienna. The third and final version (the most often recorded version) was published in 1852 and dedicated to Carl Czerny, a composer and one of Liszt’s piano teachers.

The etudes, particularly in their second-version form, are among the most difficult pieces for piano ever written. Robert Schumann declared that they were playable [at the time] by "at the most, ten or twelve players in the world". Liszt realized that his virtuoso piano technique, which influenced the composition of the etudes, was virtually unsurpassable; consequently the etudes in their final form are less difficult, but still pose incredible physical and technical demands for the performer. The fifth étude, "Feux Follets", is among the most demanding of the set.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_Etudes)

[canardroti]

Godowsky's stuff.

[dnephi]

My book on the transcendental studies says the 2nd versions were published in 1838. (The Douze GRandes Etudes)

[houseofblackleaves]

2nd version of Transcendent studies were "dumbed" down, and the set we all hear played most is the dumbed down version.  No doubt, they all are among the "hardest" peices for the piano.  Whence "transcendental."

Sorabji's OC obviously, but recently I heard one of the recordings and have recently discovered that it sounded like the greatest technique in the world being improved by a three year old.  Kinda like Kurtag's "Jatekok," except harder and not as awsome. 

It depends on the player.  There are some peices that certain people just can't... "pull off."

[desordre]

 There's another thread with the very same question. Both are from early 2003.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,463.0.html

 Best wishes!

[arbisley]

Pieces are actually all hard, because there isn't a complete and fixed solution to how to play them! Technically of course, any number of pieces could jump to mind, but musically I think that almost every single piece has the capacity of being impossible to play in the best way possible

[JCarey]

Here are some likely candidates, with samples of the sheets for you to judge:

https://pianochat.proboards25.com/index.cgi?board=pianogeneral&action=display&thread=1151250015