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Topic: tempo in Beethoven op. 111 first mvt.  (Read 1727 times)

Offline liszmaninopin

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tempo in Beethoven op. 111 first mvt.
on: December 30, 2004, 07:30:48 PM
What tempo do you feel is best for the first mvt. of Beethoven's Sonata op. 111?  I have been experimenting with a number of ideas today, it seems to me that the range right around quarter=100 sounds good.  What do you think?

Offline Rach3

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Re: tempo in Beethoven op. 111 first mvt.
Reply #1 on: December 31, 2004, 11:34:03 AM
Probably should go a few ticks faster than that. My understanding is that Beethoven intends the allegro section to be exactly double-tempo the maestoso, which is around quarter=60.
"Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them."
--Richard Wagner

Offline r.schaefer

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Re: tempo in Beethoven op. 111 first mvt.
Reply #2 on: December 31, 2004, 12:08:13 PM
Maestoso: Czerny: 56
                  Moscheles: 56
Allegro con brio: Czerny 126
                           Moscheles: 126
                           Kolisch: 184-224

Adagio: Czerny: 60
             Moscheles: 60
             Kolisch: 50

source: Musik-Konzepte 8: "Beethoven - Das Problem der Interpretation"

Offline liszmaninopin

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Re: tempo in Beethoven op. 111 first mvt.
Reply #3 on: December 31, 2004, 01:38:36 PM
Thanks for the info!

Offline Rach3

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Re: tempo in Beethoven op. 111 first mvt.
Reply #4 on: December 31, 2004, 05:57:46 PM
Quote
Kolisch: 184-224

This isn't the quarter note is it?
"Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them."
--Richard Wagner

Offline r.schaefer

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Re: tempo in Beethoven op. 111 first mvt.
Reply #5 on: December 31, 2004, 06:05:43 PM
it is the quarter note

hopefully a printing error???

But I think we can trust Czerny and Moscheles.

Offline Rach3

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Re: tempo in Beethoven op. 111 first mvt.
Reply #6 on: January 01, 2005, 04:44:53 AM
Definitely a printing error... I hope!

What is the full source?

I looked up a different metronomizations, from Rosenblaum, "Performance Practices in Classic Piano Music":

[maestoso/allegro]
Haslinger: 54-60/132
Czerny: 54-56/126-132
Moscheles: 52-56/126
"Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them."
--Richard Wagner

Offline r.schaefer

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Re: tempo in Beethoven op. 111 first mvt.
Reply #7 on: January 01, 2005, 12:27:00 PM
"Musik-Konzepte 8
Beethoven
Das Problem dem der Interpretation"
edition text + kritik
https://www.etk-muenchen.de/etk/etk_framemaker.php?content_id=5198&top_nav=musik

The whole book is about the tempo of Beethoven's music. In it you can find 10 pages (86-96) with metronomizations from Beethoven, Czerny, Moscheles, Kolisch and Leibowitz.
Czerny's 56 and 126 are from the second edition of his book ("Über den richtigen Vortrag der sämtlichen Beethoven'schen Klavierwerke"). 54 and 132 are from the first edition.
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