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Picking up the third movement of beethovens moonlight sonata. Looking for tips (Read 1514 times)

Offline sumpianodude

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Hi
If you were there when I posted the original video of me learning the moonlight 3rd, you would know what I am referring to. If you don't, this link( http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=58224.msg627146#msg627146 ) should take you there. If you don't have the time to read everything, I'll summarize: I sucked, people told me to stop. I stopped and played some easier pieces.

So I'm picking it back up now and I am having trouble in just a couple of places(one in particular), and it seems that my "tough spots" and not the same as the ones of the other posters on this forum, because I can't find anything on it.

So, then:
How should I practice the Rythms of the coda?(I am referring to measure 182, with the diminished ascending arpeggios, and measure 186 right after it, where the chromatic scale speed up right before hitting the trill on A. Whenever I play this section I find myself simply doing an accelerando through the parts(and I stop counting).

So if you have any advice to give on this(or any other generic tip on the movement,) please put them down! I will be very thankful!  :)
excuse pleeze de gremmar and spelling and CapItALizaShuns

Offline pjjslp

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So, then:
How should I practice the Rythms of the coda?(I am referring to measure 182, with the diminished ascending arpeggios, and measure 186 right after it, where the chromatic scale speed up right before hitting the trill on A. Whenever I play this section I find myself simply doing an accelerando through the parts(and I stop counting).

So if you have any advice to give on this(or any other generic tip on the movement,) please put them down! I will be very thankful!  :)

Ok, I am actually working on this right now and have it basically note perfect at 80 bpm. For measure 182, you need to slow it WAY down until it's slow enough that you can count it accurately. Like, seriously 50 bpm or even slower. If you count 1+2+3+4+ and mentally break those sextuplets into triplets, the rhythm of that measure will make sense. You can do the same thing for measure 186, but in all actuality, I don't play that strictly in tempo leading up to the trill.

Good luck! I've been wanting to play this for years and it is so much fun  :D

Offline briansaddleback

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Most advanced tip : play it very very slow be intimate w ev err yee fin ger jes ch yur on pee Anne oh
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline indianajo

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My computer won't allow me to look at videos without releasing my passwords to every hacker in Bellorussia, so I can't see what you are doing.
Measures 182 -188 of Moonlight 3rd movement are where you can show what kind of an artist you are. Are you only a technician?  I couldn't have dealt with these when I was 16 and gave up lessons, I was even tempered & really favored JS Bach.   But I've since had an emotion or two.  
Bear with me, before satellite radio, before classical FM radio, I discovered Beethoven & JS Bach through Disney's  Fantasia movie.  We were from Waaay up the hollow where any music allowed was shape note singing without instruments.   So the  image in my mind of those measures may be silly, but seems appropriate to me.   I accent the  first of triplets 176-178, then I accent the first of quadtuplets 179, then back to quads, then 1 of 5 then 1 of 6.  So on through 183-184.  Then heavy accents on first of group 185-186- It reminds me of that park ride where the runaway mine train chugs up the hill 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4 then turns into a roller coaster and runs away down the hill with no power at all, just gravity.  188 you get a relaxing ride down the mist of the waterfall in an umbrella with the fairies or some moths.  
I'm sure Beethoven never thought of it that way. You historically accurate people can think of ballrooms or sleds on the snow or something.  I like the 1950's piano, so much better than Beethoven's time.  
Enjoy expressing your emotions.  It's Beethoven.  

Offline briansaddleback

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And what's wrong w your signature? Just another pianist wading amongst the mass of pianists? Your perspective is all wrong w that statement. I don't even see it that way I see myself unique player only able to deliver what I have as art and I share that bc no one else can. I really believe that. You should too.
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline pjjslp

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Measures 182 -188 of Moonlight 3rd movement are where you can show what kind of an artist you are. Are you only a technician?  I couldn't have dealt with these when I was 16 and gave up lessons, I was even tempered & really favored JS Bach.   But I've since had an emotion or two.  

I love this the way you put this! Along with learning the third movement, I have decided to relearn the other two so I can play the entire sonata. I "learned" them both, as many of us did, as an adolescent (an age at which I favored zippy Mozart and Haydn first movements, probably for the same reasons you loved Bach!). The first movement of the Moonlight used to bore me, as I played it at a plodding tempo and had to focus hard on getting all those accidentals correct. As an adult, now that I've also had an emotion or two besides adolescent angst  ;D, relearning it is a revelation. I love every note and even my kids will make comments like "that's so pretty, Mom, but it makes me sad."

Offline sumpianodude

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Ok, I am actually working on this right now and have it basically note perfect at 80 bpm. For measure 182, you need to slow it WAY down until it's slow enough that you can count it accurately. Like, seriously 50 bpm or even slower. If you count 1+2+3+4+ and mentally break those sextuplets into triplets, the rhythm of that measure will make sense. You can do the same thing for measure 186, but in all actuality, I don't play that strictly in tempo leading up to the trill.

Good luck! I've been wanting to play this for years and it is so much fun  :D
Whenever I try that I can't count the sixteenths(too slow? Maybe I'll need to learn that) but I can't count the sextuplets. Not the quintuplets though. And don't even get me started on what happens when I try to speed it up... ;D

Indiana your vision of this passage is... I don't even know how to say it, other than the fact that it's very unique. For me the initial passage in f# minor and D Major reminds me of water(I have no. Idea why) and I'm not sure what to make of the diminished 7th chord (Doesnt feel the same as the other three) as well as the chromatic scale. I suppose when I become more creative I will be able to get something out of it :-\.
And what's wrong w your signature? Just another pianist wading amongst the mass of pianists? Your perspective is all wrong w that statement. I don't even see it that way I see myself unique player only able to deliver what I have as art and I share that bc no one else can. I really believe that. You should too.

I won't argue that we are not all unique, but perhaps not everyone sees How unique someone is(because, well, they have millions and millions of other pianists to look at). Maybe "just another unique pianists wading amongst the mass of unique pianists out there" would be a better line.. But that's too wordy  ;D
excuse pleeze de gremmar and spelling and CapItALizaShuns