Beethoven Op 27 No 3 F## trill troubles

[xr280xr]

I'm working on the 3rd movement of Beethoven Op 27 No 3 and about measure 32 (see attached photo), there's an F# trill followed by a couple accidentals that I'm having trouble with. The octave with 1 and 4 is a stretch and because of that, I can kind of play the trill with my pinky (hard to do without the thumb involved) but finger 3 really doesn't want to press down when 1,4 & 5 are in that position. Especially with the F# key in between 3 and 4.

I'm not sure if this is a coordination thing in my brain not wanting to do that or a physiological thing in my hand itself preventing that movement, and/or a lack of strength. I know this is a pretty hard thing to talk about via text, but I thought maybe this was a common trouble spot in the piece and maybe there were some tricks or drills some of you are aware of to achieve this.

[pjjslp]

Yes, this one was the trickiest for me of the 4/5 trills. I have small hands, which adds to the fun. Honestly, what I did was practice it over and over and over VERY slowly, and speed it up very gradually. I also do not even attempt to hold the lower note in the octave. I basically hit it with my thumb and let it bounce right back off. Of course the thumb has to get right back for the next octave, but letting it join the rest of my hand briefly keeps the whole trill from being way too tense.  Does that make sense? Easier to show than describe with words. But slow practice was the key for me to get that motion.

[xr280xr]

Thanks, pjjslp! That makes perfect sense. I was coming to the same conclusion about releasing the thumb. Glad to know the good ol' "start slow" approach works.

[diomedes]

I'm playing this sonata now, both the Henle and Peters (arrau) editions support using something like the 4/5 trill.
I'm using 2/3 without any difficulty, and the trill has probably better speed and elasticity. Your 3 would move to the G# immediately and 2 goes to the F double #.

Although I've never tried the 4/5 trill, it just doesn't sound inviting.

[pjjslp]

Although I've never tried the 4/5 trill, it just doesn't sound inviting.

It isn't, lol. However, I have seriously small hands (reaching a 9th is extremely difficult), so the only way I'm doing a non-4/5 trill is if I skip the bottom note of the octave entirely. Honestly, that trill was the scariest part for me when I started working on this, but it has not ended up being my greatest challenge!

[xdjuicebox]

Yeah this trill is one of the more annoying ones. I don't hold the bottom note, I gently tap it and then do what I call the "wiggle trill," which is basically playing a really bad chord 5-6 times and it sounds like a trill if you do it fast enough. Try turning your hand slightly sideways [so that instead of facing straight ahead, they face a bit to the left, and make sure you lift your wrist for your pinky on the black note.

[toughbo]

Op. 27 No 3?