What's your biggest fear

[outin]

Care to explain?

You've read the book? Just compare what he said and did with the writings of some famous socialists. There's plenty in common...

[pencilart3]

such as

[outin]

such as

I'm not going to tell you, you must find out by yourself

[pencilart3]

How did I know you would say that? No thanks. Not worth it

[chopinlover01]

Jesus said to give to the poor, the sick, and the downtrodden.
Seems like a good social safety net and universal health care would fit into this.
Also, "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (a mountainous pass known for killing camels due to dehydration) than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:24

[mjames]

Just to make it clear I meant also books beyond school subjects. Science is important but one's mind cannot thrive on textbooks alone.

Yes you need to read peer reviewed papers as well.

SCIENCCE IS LIFE!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

such as

Really?

[outin]

How did I know you would say that? No thanks. Not worth it

And that exactly is your problem my friend!

Many people seem to avoid expanding their knowledge and understanding in fear for risking their existing beliefs. But fear not, one rarely becomes a communist just from reading "Das Kapital" no more than one becomes a Christian simply by reading the bible. The existing structures in the mind will largely determine how one reacts to such material.

[mjames]

I was quite biased against Karl before I read his works because um...school, but yeah, though I might not agree with his ideas I sympathize with him. He sounded like a really nice guy. Please read his works, you probably have more in common with him than you think.

....Except for the religious bits >.> <.<

[outin]

Yes you need to read peer reviewed papers as well.

SCIENCCE IS LIFE!

Ok...You too could benefit from spending some time with less scientific literature  

No matter how much I personally would love a more "scientificly run" society, the fact is that science alone is still very inadequate in understanding humans. Observing the products of their minds and creativity and the effects these have on yourself greatly helps.

[outin]

I was quite biased against Karl before I read his works because um...school, but yeah, though I might not agree with his ideas I sympathize with him. He sounded like a really nice guy. Please read his works, you probably have more in common with him than you think.

....Except for the religious bits >.> <.<

He was a brilliant economist. Whether one accepts his ideals does not change that fact.

But for Pen I would recommend starting with something less revolutionary. Not all sosialists concentrated on class struggle, many were more interested in democratic reform. Especially today the ideas considered "dangerous sosialism" by him seem to be quite compatible with the present right wing political climate in my country.

[mjames]

He was a brilliant economist. Whether one accepts his ideals does not change that fact.

Oh yeah he was an economist too. LOL
I've only read his philosophical stuff. I know they intertwine with each other but I didn't really focus on that.
I've tried studying economy back in high school but man it's just way too brutally boring...sorry

[mjames]

But for Pen I would recommend starting with something less revolutionary.

He seems to be a little bit too sure of himself, so why not cause an existential crisis by introducing him to Descartes XD

"WAIT WHAT, YOU CANT PROVE THAT THE WORLD EXISTS?!?!?"

[outin]

Oh yeah he was an economist too. LOL
I've only read his philosophical stuff. I know they intertwine with each other but I didn't really focus on that.
I've tried studying economy back in high school but man it's just way too brutally boring...sorry

I thought you liked math and scientific models? Maybe you just weren't introduced to the really cool stuff  

[reiyza]

What's scary about death really? Things end and while it kinda sucks, it's nothing to be scared about.

I missed this post. I was so caught up with the discussions.

Why aren't you scared? When you die you won't be able too feel everything that's happening to you. There's not even a guarantee that you'll get revived or reincarnated. And there's really no guarantee if there's heaven nor hell or anything. Your mind will just rot away and you'll be forgotten forever. Just another piece of sand on the ground.

[mjames]

yeah but you'll be too dead to care, right?

[reiyza]

Yup. and that's what scares me, you'll be unable to experience all of the things we are experiencing right now.

[mjames]

Yup. and that's what scares me, you'll be unable to experience all of the things we are experiencing right now.

XD I honestly can't remember what this feels like anymore. I used to ponder a lot about death when I was a little kid, and I was always an atheist, so knowing I'd end up as nothing scared the living crap out of me. I think somewhere along the line I just gave up and accepted it.

Death itself doesn't scare anymore, knowing that I'm about to die is a little bit scary tho. <.> I'd rather just POOF in my sleep without realizing it happened...
Better than cancer...
or Bleeding to death
CRAP.

[outin]

I missed this post. I was so caught up with the discussions.

Why aren't you scared? When you die you won't be able too feel everything that's happening to you. There's not even a guarantee that you'll get revived or reincarnated. And there's really no guarantee if there's heaven nor hell or anything. Your mind will just rot away and you'll be forgotten forever. Just another piece of sand on the ground.

And what exactly about that is scary? As I said it sucks that everything I have buit inside my head will disappear, but I do not fear the inevitable, I accept it as part of life.

And it makes no difference that I am reassured that there's nothing beyond death.

I do try to remember to be glad I have managed to stay alive this long, considering how insecure life really is. I am well aware that I may be dead tomorrow. Hopefully someone will feed my cats.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

People are afraid of death just cause we don't know what happens when we die

[pencilart3]

Jesus said to give to the poor, the sick, and the downtrodden.
Seems like a good social safety net and universal health care would fit into this.
Also, "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (a mountainous pass known for killing camels due to dehydration) than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:24

Where does Jesus say that the government should make people give to the poor sick and downtrodden?

[thalbergmad]

Many people seem to avoid expanding their knowledge and understanding in fear for risking their existing beliefs. But fear not, one rarely becomes a communist just from reading "Das Kapital" no more than one becomes a Christian simply by reading the bible. The existing structures in the mind will largely determine how one reacts to such material.

I wonder if one could become an atheist by reading Dawkins or Hitchings?.

Religious nutters would find it too scary and would avoid such enlightenment.

Thal

[pencilart3]

I read plenty of Dawkins and I find it quite amusing that he states that he isn't sure if his theories are correct, and that if no new evidence is found (e.g. transitional fossils) then scrap his theory. What happened? No new evidence found! OOPS!

[thalbergmad]

It is because he is not sure that makes him a great man. It is people who are sure and almost certainly wrong that need to be feared.

He has done much to releive people of the burden of superstitious nonsense.

Thal

[pencilart3]

*thal doesn't get it*

[mjames]

I read plenty of Dawkins and I find it quite amusing that he states that he isn't sure if his theories are correct, and that if no new evidence is found (e.g. transitional fossils) then scrap his theory. What happened? No new evidence found! OOPS!

this is so vague....
Which theory?

You are probably misquoting him. it was probably more somethingalong the lines of he wasn't completely (100%) certain, but that's because he's a scientist. Scientists don't deal with absolute certainty, or proofs. 

[thalbergmad]

You are probably misquoting him.

He is probably repeating what some bearded sandal wearing twat down his local church told him. I doubt if he has read any Dawkins, or is even allowed to.

Thal

[gep]

My biggest fear is facing God at the end, and Him saying that I was a hypocrite.

What about hearing Her say you were a sexist?

[gep]

I read plenty of Dawkins and I find it quite amusing that he states that he isn't sure if his theories are correct, and that if no new evidence is found (e.g. transitional fossils) then scrap his theory. What happened? No new evidence found! OOPS!

Hmm, here I was thinking that each and every living thing presently and every fossil found so far and as will be found in the future is BY DEFINITION transitional, as every living thing is transitional between its parents and its offspring. The wise doubt, only the fools know for sure. And, yes, each and every scientist of even the slightest merit will state that, when new evidence disproofs (part of) an existing theory, that theory will need modification, or even be scrapped. Scientist actually do look for anything that will disprove their theories. Explanation first, facts to fit and follow = religion (including politics); facts first, explanation to fit and follow = science.

Easy to see the simple reality in and of that, but one cannot teach those who will not open their eyes...

My biggest fear? That the stupid will take of the world (and I am not quite sure I should put that in future tense, actually...).

All best,
gep

[mjames]

[reiyza]

This thread is getting out of hand.

I do try to remember to be glad I have managed to stay alive this long, considering how insecure life really is. I am well aware that I may be dead tomorrow.

You're dead right about life being insecure. That's what makes life hard and satisfying at the same time, you could be enjoying the time of your life now, then by tomorrow or the next few minutes, something unexpected happened, you got into an accident or your heart stopped.

This kind of thinking will really get me killed at this rate.

[chopinlover01]

Concerning death, I read something that read as follows:
"Why should I fear death? If I exist, it does not. If it exists, I do not, and cannot experience it."

[gep]

My biggest fear? That the stupid will take of the world (and I am not quite sure I should put that in future tense, actually...).

All best,
gep

I put this on a few days ago, and already today I get a message that is just one of many proofs to my point: http://www.euyo.eu/discover/news/breaking-news-euyo-announces-closure/. How many billions are being squandered in the massively corrupt 'Centre for European Democracy', Brussels, but this must be destroyed. QED...

Those taking an interest are much called on to write a note, although I am not at all optimistic how much good it may or will do. Gargantua and Pantagruel do not listen easily, I fear...

All best,
gep