Grieg Op.54 No.4 Nocturne WIP, Diary, 18.05.2016

[adodd81802]

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[adodd81802]

So this evening I have practiced bars 15-20 which is the trills. I am not able to make it work as indicated with the 2/3/1 for the trill, I will give that some separate practice, but I have made it work with 2/3 I will post a video in a couple of days after some more progress has been made.

Rhythm I am still finding difficult when learning new sections, I find just very slow practice helps you keep the concentration on the left hand.

[briansaddleback]

adood I only have one day off today so I didn't read all your verbiage but I I enjoyed your playing on your keyboard contraption. You have always a nice touch, sort of what would happen for me only after the 50th recording take.
But I have to admit I am mesmerized by your choice selection of jeans.

[adodd81802]

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[pjjslp]

Gorgeous piece, very nice playing. You really do have a wonderful touch. Looking forward to following your progress!

[pencilart3]

Excellent I will follow this also

[adodd81802]

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[kawai_cs]

Addod, great repertoire choice and fine playing, both the nocturne and arabesque! I admire how detail oriented you are and how nice and well balanced your touch is. Do you get to practice on an acoustic instrument as well?
I am looking forward to continuation!

[adodd81802]

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[adodd81802]

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[isaacmalitz]

In your video of Katsaris: That is the great Gyorgy Cziffra appearing at the beginning and end !

[isaacmalitz]

Here are some comments that I hope will stimulate you as you advance to “the next level” with this wonderful Grieg Nocturne. Let me know if these comments turn out to be useful. [I am using specific technical method in constructing these comments, so very interested to find out if the result is useful to you]

[1] I think of this Nocturne as a poetic work that is a tremendous stimulation to the listener’s imagination. Some words that I associate with it: “spacious”, “spatial”, “vast space”, “vast motions and curvatures”, “arcs within even larger and larger arcs”, “distortions of time; time almost stands still”; “emotional”;  “gentle pulsations which are felt more than heard”; “broad sweeps of energy and sound. ppp to FF”; “the rhythms and pulses are relaxed. Not metronomic. They are like what you experience in dance or in the recitation of great poetry”; “darkness; birds; melody”; “long, even vast silences”.; “broad sonic range from high to low, soft to loud”; “topological”; “the harmonics are somewhat like mid-century jazz, think Bill Evans”; “beauty and proportion”. I am providing the above language not as poetic balderdash, but because I think that some of this may help you to shape and organize the performance in a way that is more fully responsive to your own conception of the work.

Now for some nuts and bolts:

[2] mm 1 – 4: Splendid! And congratulations for deciding to play  B, Bb with your right-hand (cross-handed). This enables you to get the sound “just right”. The score that I have doesn’t suggest your strategy, but I think you are a real artist for doing this. Art is more important than rules or “the score”.

I hear perfect proportions, and the long arc. And the total sound hangs in the air. That’s the poetry!

[3] mm 5 – 14: Lumpy. You are paying too much attention to the “2 against 3”. You are just learning the work, so this preoccupation is understandable. Goal: The broken triplets in the left hand should be as quiet as possible; they should be felt more than heard, ideally (not easy). And the melody should have a life of its own. After you are comfortable with the mechanics, don’t worry about the exact arithmetic of 2 against 3.

Also: I would commit sacrilege and recompose all chords in mm 9 –13 so that they are played with the left hand only. It will be much much easier to play naturally. If you play it beautifully, Grieg will forgive. (Some pedantic musician will probably get mad, but who cares, this is ART not bureaucracy!!)

[4] Play up the contrast in dynamics (which is one factor in the emotionality)

[5] As for rubato and all that, I suggest the following: [a] Try dancing to it like a ballerina (do this when nobody is looking, please) Read some good poetry (try Henry Vaughan “The World”, or Yeats or ...)  Write a few of your own words for the music, to help you get a feel for the “natural rhythm” of the work. Use [a] and to gradually transition from metronomic playing to a more natural declamation. I can hear that you are starting to do this already. What I am suggesting is a little different from what is officially called “rubato”. In my experience, true rubato is rather strict and can sound a little weird. But if your guide is dance and great poetry, you will sound good (and true to the mathematics of the work).

[6] If I have a little time, I will do a recording of Part1 myself and post it. That may make some of my comments more tangible.

[7] Play as slowly as you like !

[adodd81802]

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[adodd81802]

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[isaacmalitz]

in the early bars 5 on wards the 2 grace notes C# and B, I prefer playing them on the beat and the 2nd note later, rather than playing them either both quickly or playing the grace note early and the second note clearly on the beat.

What are your thoughts? I have heard 1-2 performances the same way as mine.

Regarding the grace notes: I think they sound ugly in every performance I have heard. What was Grieg trying to do here ??!!?? My own solution: Play the notes together.

BTW, I understand that if you are playing for an exam, then some of my suggestions may cause a violent reaction with a judge. So for that reason, you may need to play somewhat "conservatively" when performing for an examiner.

[adodd81802]

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[isaacmalitz]

A ballet performance to the Grieg Nocturne
The filming is a little artsy to my taste.
But it demonstrates the "spatial" stimulation of this music

https://vimeo.com/90569142

(When I was in graduate school, I played for ballet classes at UCLA for several years. That was very good for my musical upbringing!)

[isaacmalitz]

[1] Regarding:

3 note - Could you please clarify the left hand chord thoughts you have mentioned. I see in those bars it's D/C with left hand and right hand D,F# while playing the melody notes. I don't know about you but my small hands cannot take and Octave and F# all in the left!

Try this change in Measure 9:
In the left hand, play  D, F#, C
In the right hand, play only the melody
(Similar changes in mm 11, 12, 13)

[2] Regarding the double notes later in the piece (starting in measure 21). I think the tempo can be quite slow, provided that your double-notes  are played with even-ness and clarity.

[adodd81802]

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[isaacmalitz]

Hello adodd81802 !

Since you requested musical illustration, here is a recording I have just made. In preparing this, I utilized my own advice ("I ate my own cooking") and I found it helplful.

I had studied this piece on and off several times in recent years. It was nice to revisit it and to try to get a better grasp of it.

My own impression of my performance: Good conception, a bit exaggerated and rough, but compelling. To really smooth it out, I would need to play it every day for about 6 months.

I recorded this using a great piano (Yamaha C7) and a mediocre recording device (my Samsung Galaxy phone) 

[adodd81802]

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[isaacmalitz]

My background: Undergrad at Oberlin College  - not the conservatory, but studied music at the conservatory. After that, 6 years of piano study at UCLA/Aspen with Aube Tzerko. Tzerko was a student of Schnabel. and he immersed me in the great traditions of Western Music, that was a fantastic education!

I never was interested in piano as a profession (my professional interest was Mathematical Logic / Philosophy / Computer Science. I became a software consultant and technology researcher). But I have always studied piano with great seriousness and persistence. I am proficient technically; not a perfect virtuoso, but very good at getting things to sound the way I want. My greatest pianistic attribute is persistence/patience - I can work on a piece of music on and off over long periods of time, and achieve continuous incremental improvements. If "genius is 2% inspiration and 98% perspiration", I am superb at that 98%.

I currently have two "professional" involvements in music:

[1] I am on BOD of www.MondayEveningConcerts.org  , which is one of the oldest and most renowned contemporary music series in the world. Our mission is "find the newest and the best, get the best performers, produce every concert superbly; no compromises, no limits". I get to hang out with some of the very best composers and performers in the world; and we are always "pushing the limits". This work is demanding, and I love it.

[2] I (and a small team) have developed what I think is a very useful and efficient method to analyze/critique performances or compositions. The method is deeply-rooted in the great western musical traditions, and then it is turbocharged with some current-generation science and technologyThe end-result is something that would typically require a top professional critic or musical coach. But we can deliver at a low cost (a lot less than the cost of a piano lesson with a top artist). I applied some of this method to critique of your performance. This method is expected to be commercialized soon.

... and thus I am never bored ...  

btw: I have learned that sometimes even the greatest artists will study a work for months and years and will practice in the most painstaking detail. So if it were to take 6 months for me to get my performance of the Grieg to a high standard, that does not seem a long time to me. (A pianist told me that he once overheard Rachmaninoff practicing the Chopin Etude in G# minor. He was playing it through at about 1/20th of concert speed. At that speed, it took him about an hour to play it from beginning to end. Tzerko's term for this kind of patient/persistent practice was "sitzfleisch" !)

[adodd81802]

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