Nocturne Op 9 no 2 redone...Critique please

[lamadoo]

Redone it as best i could with a little help from Chopinlover. Please provide critique and improvements as i would like to move onto recording other pieces. I am self-taught so i have to rely on this forums wisdom, cheers guys  

&feature=youtu.be

(ive re-uploaded the link to a higher quality wav form since the previous one was a quick mp3)

[briansaddleback]

I don't need to watch it to confidently tell you that you can move onto other pieces you already nailed this one from my watching of the previous one. You should be tackling a piece a step higher though you are at that level at least

[mjames]

tbh my fav type of members are the self-taught ones, cause I relate...
Love your playing man. *subscribed*

[lamadoo]

I don't need to watch it to confidently tell you that you can move onto other pieces you already nailed this one from my watching of the previous one. You should be tackling a piece a step higher though you are at that level at least

Ah...thanks Brian, now i can comfortable let this piece collect dust and move forward.

tbh my fav type of members are the self-taught ones, cause I relate...
Love your playing man. *subscribed*

Cheers James, you understand the feelings well Thanks for the sub! If you have ur own channel too please share, it can be a lonely endeavour  

[abielikesu]

Very nice, you should be pleased.

A bit on the slow side I think, but very enjoyable.

[lamadoo]

Very nice, you should be pleased.

A bit on the slow side I think, but very enjoyable.

Thanks abielikesu, 

[perfect_pitch]

Did you add fake reverb onto your recording??? It doesn't sound natural...

If you did, I would consider giving us just the raw sound. Reverb doesn't necessarily make it sound better.

[lamadoo]

Did you add fake reverb onto your recording??? It doesn't sound natural...

If you did, I would consider giving us just the raw sound. Reverb doesn't necessarily make it sound better.

Originally no, after when i found the recording acceptable then i proceeded to do re-uploads and to also add some reverb for that dreamy color/church hall effect. i found it quite enjoyable during that time since to me the tone felt a little dry  

[isaacmalitz]

Here are some comments that I hope will stimulate you as you advance to “the next level” with Chopin Nocturne Op9#2. Let me know if these comments turn out to be useful. [I am using specific technical method in constructing these comments, so very interested to find out if the result is useful to you]

• You play it very well already! Coherent, with feeling, good sound, free of cliches, convincing, free,  and original. Amazingly - for someone who hasn’t had lessons - you play more like an “artist” and less like a “student”! And there are additional positive attributes.

One problem that I suspect you are wrestling with is how to make judgements about artistic license - e.g. the give-and-take of the melody, nuances with embellishments,  or how you want to handle the accelerando in the candenza. I’ll definitely shed some light on those matters.

[1] I think of this Nocturne as a poetic work that stimulates a listener in many ways. Different listeners will respond to these various stimuli in greater or lesser degrees; and a listener can respond to many stimuli in parallel. Here are some words and phrases that characterize some of the main stimuli:
   Melodic; a song; “vocal”, like a fine singer
   Ballet, slow and graceful
   Speechlike, like the recitation of a wonderful poem
   Emotional
   Elegantly structured; transparent in architecture and detail
   Highly imaginative
   Leisurely and spacious; spatial
   Time slows down, and maybe even stands still in places
   Beauty of sound

(There are also various subtle effects that a listener would barely notice, but they can be “felt”. E.g. there are a few sounds that are slightly “odd”, e.g. the first D flat that occurs in the melody; the second occurrence of the D flat; the dissonance at the climax just before the cadenza; a few very subtle dissonances in just the right places; the extreme freedoms that Chopin takes with the two principal melodies (how about the 4-against-3, that’s really nice) ).

[2] It is up to you as an artist to be sensitive to these stimuli and to decide how you want to convey them to the listener. The judgements are entirely up to you. To become aware of these main stimuli, here are some suggestions:

   - Listen to your recording and note your own reactions.
   - Dance to the music (when nobody is looking)
   - Read some great poetry, and associate some words and phrases with the music
      (“… I love you for-ev-er …”) . Silly words are permissible (a long tradition about this ...)
   - Away from the piano, sing and wave your arms like a conductor
   - Turn on your recorder, experiment, try crazy things, listen to the playbacks

As you do this, I predict that you will want to make some changes to your performance.
Continue your search for “natural” declamation and pacing - whatever your ears tells you is good.

[3] Specific suggestions:

- Turns, embellishments etc.: Chopin himself suggested putting a priority on even-ness rather than speed.

- Go for a wider variation in dynamics

- The cadenza can be played with two hands if that is easier for you

- Listen carefully to how your particular piano resonates; and adjust your playing to show off those resonances.

[4] Your performance reminds me in some ways of the legendary Chopin Nocturnes recording by Ivan Moravec. On YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He9HdEs7Op8

[5] FYI: This Nocturne was a favorite of Chopin's. He wrote down a number of variants for various passages. Let me know if you need a reference on this.

[lamadoo]

Isaacmalitz, firstly I would like to express my deepest thanks for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. Reading your  comments  and teachings has given me the framework and grounds into becoming a much better and capable player. I feel your comments are of the utmost importance in becoming my own individual artist and the greatest advice I have been given in my journey to playing the piano.

At times I felt like I was trying to draw some abstract picture but didn't have any coloured paint to complete it, it felt incomplete. I made countless recordings of this piece and became confused with how to make judgements on the 'artistic licence' (had no idea what that was...)and also if I did Chopin wrong by reciting it with my own personal nature. I love how you have put into words these stimulus and characterised them so they are no longer blurred and abstract to me. Like Pluto in the ''Allegory of the Cave" waking up and finally realising the truth and what can be done has shed light onto the subject.

A few days ago I've started learning Chopin's Nocturne in C# Minor  and already just by listening to your suggestions have made it sound much more poetic with a clear direction on where I need to go with completing rendition. Likewise the same with Op 9 no 2 no doubt plans have already been made with your spot on suggestions. If you can provide the reference for the passages, i'll be interested in reading them as well.

My deepest thanks Isaac, I feel like its only right to pay you for your invaluable lessons in striving to become my own individual artist. Please message me with your paypal email and I'll send a small tutor's donation payment as thanks, its the least I can do for your help.

[isaacmalitz]

Lamadoo: Your feedback is very well expressed (including the Plato reference), and much appreciated!

The critique you received is the beginning of what I predict will be a very successful commercial venture: I (and a small team) have developed what I think is a very useful and efficient method to analyze/critique performances or compositions. The method is deeply-rooted in the great western musical traditions, and then it is turbocharged with some current-generation science and technology (I am a PhD technology guy, and also a well-trained musician). The end-result is something that would typically require a top professional critic or musical coach. But we can deliver at a low cost (a lot less than the cost of a piano lesson with a top artist).

I am glad that you are willing to pay for the critique - that is "music to my ears"!!! But no payment is necessary. However, your testimonial will be valuable to our venture. And spread the word. For the time being, we want to do more critiques for any performing musician - in return for feedback on "how we did". Once we have enough experience and feedback, we will charge a fee. But free for now.

The Chopin book is https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Pianist-Teacher-Seen-Pupils/dp/0521367093 . It is a wonderful resource, the author must have spent 10 years assembling the materials in this book. Detailed notes on what Chopin had to say about Op9#2 including musical variants that he wrote out for students. And the same for many dozens of other Chopin works.

[pencilart3]

Cheers James,

*milton

[lamadoo]

Lamadoo: Your feedback is very well expressed (including the Plato reference), and much appreciated!

The critique you received is the beginning of what I predict will be a very successful commercial venture: I (and a small team) have developed what I think is a very useful and efficient method to analyze/critique performances or compositions. The method is deeply-rooted in the great western musical traditions, and then it is turbocharged with some current-generation science and technology (I am a PhD technology guy, and also a well-trained musician). The end-result is something that would typically require a top professional critic or musical coach. But we can deliver at a low cost (a lot less than the cost of a piano lesson with a top artist).

I am glad that you are willing to pay for the critique - that is "music to my ears"!!! But no payment is necessary. However, your testimonial will be valuable to our venture. And spread the word. For the time being, we want to do more critiques for any performing musician - in return for feedback on "how we did". Once we have enough experience and feedback, we will charge a fee. But free for now.

The Chopin book is https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Pianist-Teacher-Seen-Pupils/dp/0521367093 . It is a wonderful resource, the author must have spent 10 years assembling the materials in this book. Detailed notes on what Chopin had to say about Op9#2 including musical variants that he wrote out for students. And the same for many dozens of other Chopin works.

Thanks again Isaac, sorry for the delay in my response (computer was out of commission). Keep us updated on your development as it will be a great help to many pianist, I'll let my friend know of it as well 

[chopinlover01]

Very well done.
My only suggestions would be to vary the dynamics slightly more, and to bring out the bass a little more. The balance is quite hard to achieve; the bass should come out, but only slightly above the accompaniment chords. I'm picturing three levels of volume (from greatest to least): Melody - Bass line(s) - Accompaniment chords