Yamaha YDP-162 and Kawai CN-14 (KDP90)

[jacobson]

Hello,

the two instruments I'm choosing between are Kawai CN-14 and Yamaha YDP-162. The price is about the same. Here in Germany, the CN-14 is very similar, almost identical to the KDP90 in the US. I have read reviews of both the KDP90/CN-14 and the YDP-162, but it is still difficult for me to decide.

Here are the things I'm pondering:

1.) More realistic key action on CN-14 vs. somewhat less realistic but (supposedly) more reliable key action & quality of keys on YDP-162.

I have heard that Yamaha is more reliable, better constructed, and for Kawai there are supposedly more users who needed to get repairs done, with some keys being damaged. I have absoutely no idea if this is true, but it is worrysome to hear something like that, as I want something of high quality where I don't have to worry that a key will break because of repeated practice of fortissimo passages, or other reasons.

2.) 196 note polyphony on CN-14 vs. 128 note polyphony on YDP-162.

Is there any known piece in classical music which would require more than 128 polyphony? Is there any piano sonata, or piano concerto, or etude, or any other composition, where 128 polyphony wouldn't be sufficient? This is very important to me.

3.) Keys requiring less finger pressure on CN-14 vs. keys requiring more finger pressure on YDP-162.

If I remember correctly, a user on a forum complained that he wasn't able to play some Chopin etudes very well due to the heavy keys. He wrote there were quite a few slipped notes, and that it was the key action's fault. Is this really something one should worry about, or does it really just come down to skill level? I mean, I can play pretty difficult, fast passages. Will I have to worry about slipped notes on the YDP-162 if my piano technique is very good? The other question would be, is it a problem to play one single note fast repeatedly on this instrument?

A little background: I'm a pretty advanced player who played piano (classical music) a long time ago and wants to return to it. I hope to get some advice in this thread. Please keep in mind that I'm not interested in Roland or Casio at the moment, and an acoustic is out of the question. It's a decision only between these two instruments I mentioned.

Thank you in advance.

[lhorwinkle]

The polyphony numbers are not relevant
The reliability rumors are not to be trusted.

Choose based on sound and touch. Which do you like best?

[hfmadopter]

This guy tends to give a pretty realistic evaluation generally:

https://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2013/10/Kawai-KDP90-Digital-Piano-REVIEW-2014-model-furniture-cabinet-weighted-hammer-piano-key-action-under-2000.html

Polyphony works different than most people think but none the less, in a program like Pianoteq you can set up a screen that is showing the polyphony used while you play. I use Pianoteq mostly these days for my piano sounds vs a DP manufacturers rendition, it's much more realistic or at least so in my now older Kawai MP6. And it has many more options for sound setups and all the various dynamics of a real piano sound. Anyway, if I load up my bass with really fast repetitive notes in my compositions and if the treble is fairly complex or has fast up scale rolls, for instance, I can hit 110 on the polyphony scale in Pianoteq. i could imagine that someone capable of playing two fists full of really fast complex music could trip the 128 scale and that at that it would be unlikely you heard the difference. Still 196 I guess could be said to give some cushion.

My MP6 is a professional stage piano and has 4 channels, it has a polyphony of 196 per channel. I use Pianoteq which has a native polyphony of 128 for the piano sounds ( it can be set higher but 128 is the suggested polyphony to use that compliments latency ). I've never run into any trouble with either setup. In Mixcraft, I want to say I have polyphony set at 96 to keep latency down. Mixcraft is my VSt I use when i want to mix instrumentation or if I want to record and have full recording software at my disposal. As such, I have far more going on, sometimes several channels of instrumentation. But since the piano's polyphony is not used in a VST, then that's it, 96. Never an issue even though I just said a ways back here that my playing can hit 110. Some of this may be the fact that I'm playing though an audio interface that helps bring clarity. i don't know , but it works.

Some people have complained about some Yamaha YDP series pianos and heavy action. I have no experience with them other than trying them out in a store, to which I just didn't like any of the Yamaha cabinet type home use pianos. Non of the keys, in fact not the entire instrument, felt like a piano to me. The MP6 has the balance and pivoting feel of real grand piano keys. And later models are supposed to be better yet. I will probably always own Kawai digital piano's, I don't see myself owning a Yamaha but possibly a Roland before that, if not Kawai . And since I use VST software for sound generation, I doubt I will buy another full sound DP, the next would probably be Kawai's controller ( no on board sounds). I build an all birch stand and I made a wooden music rest for that attaches to the back of that and I can plop any DP or controller on there .

[jacobson]

Right now I'm seriously considering the YDP-163.

It's the successor to the YDP-162, with GH3 action and 192-note polyphony.

The only thing holding me back is the fact that there are zero reviews for it out there. It's understandable, seeing that it came out recently in April 2016, but I'd love to be able to read at least one single review for the product.

[hfmadopter]

People get all hung up with the name "Yamaha".  Why , I have no idea but it is the case. I've played GH3 instruments, you can play any number of them or get reviews on pianos with GH3. Personally, I felt the keys did not have the same kind of resistance that my real grand piano gives me.

The YDP 163 sounds very digital in this video at leas:   https://www.kraftmusic.com/brands/yamaha/pianos-keyboards/digital-pianos/arius/ydp163/?utm_source=adcenter&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=yamaha&utm_content=yam-ydp163&utm_term=yamaha%20ydp-163

The Kawai :     https://www.kraftmusic.com/brands/kawai/kdp90/?utm_source=adcenter&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=kawai&utm_content=kaw-kdp90&utm_term=kawai%20kdp90&utm_creative=e&utm_device=c

[jacobson]

Alright, here's an update, as I've been playing my new YDP-163 for a week now.

I'm very satisfied with the instrument. The action (GH3) is indeed a bit on the heavy side, but it doesn't bother me at all. It is very expressive, and I can easily go from ppp to fff and everything in between. Playing very fast passages is not a problem either. The sound through the internal speakers is good, and through headphones it is much better, very good actually, although this is a matter of taste. In short, I'm very happy with my purchase.

That said, I'm really enjoying playing these days, as I haven't played anything with 88 keys in a very long time. Right now I'm relearning old pieces I once played, while also practicing new pieces.

I intend to post some recordings eventually.

[hfmadopter]

Enjoy !!

[reiyza]

Some people have complained about some Yamaha YDP series pianos and heavy action. I have no experience with them other than trying them out in a store, to which I just didn't like any of the Yamaha cabinet type home use pianos. Non of the keys, in fact not the entire instrument, felt like a piano to me.

Maybe I am one of those people

I have found performing trills on a yamaha igital is difficulty compared to a real piano. Or is it just me and my inadequate technique.

Compared to a well maintained acoustic. The cabinet style yamaha series does not fare well due to it's heavy key action, though it's great if you can execute fast passages on your y162, if you try to adapt it to an acoustic(given that it is well maintained), you could play like *zoom*..

[jacobson]

I have found performing trills on a yamaha igital is difficulty compared to a real piano. Or is it just me and my inadequate technique.

Compared to a well maintained acoustic. The cabinet style yamaha series does not fare well due to it's heavy key action, though it's great if you can execute fast passages on your y162, if you try to adapt it to an acoustic(given that it is well maintained), you could play like *zoom*..

I have the YDP-163, which is very similar to the YDP-162, and have no problems with fast passages. I'm learning Chopin's 1st Scherzo at the moment and also relearning some old pieces I used to play (I played piano a long time ago), and I have no issues with speed. No issues with trills, either. When the time comes, I intend to post some recordings.

That said, even acoustics differ from instrument to instrument, and a long time ago I remember playing on a few upright acoustic pianos that were really heavy, pretty similar to this Yamaha.

Yes, the YDP-163 is on the heavy side, but the keyboard is very expressive to me, which I find most important. At the end it's a matter of taste.