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Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12 (Read 2637 times)

Offline kawai_cs

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Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
« on: June 28, 2016, 01:14:37 AM »
Comments appreciated!

Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

piano sheet music of Etude


Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #1 on: June 28, 2016, 02:28:12 AM »
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Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #2 on: June 28, 2016, 04:27:37 PM »
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Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline mjames

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #3 on: June 28, 2016, 09:23:27 PM »
Cool. This is such an 'awesome' etude but whenever I see someone play it, it gives me the impression that it would be an absolute chore to learn it. So props to you for working it through, must have been difficult!

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #4 on: June 29, 2016, 01:15:33 AM »
Mjames, I am revisiting this piece now and it still is a WIP. I guess that kind of gives you an idea ;)
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline richardb

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #5 on: June 29, 2016, 01:57:03 AM »
Very nice performance kawai_cs.  I only wish the sound quality was better.  This is one of my favorite Chopin etudes.

Mjames, I recently watched a Paul Barton youtube tutorial on this piece. He recommends learning the 3 note chords first. That is, learn the entire piece first in 3 note chords.  I might try it, but this is really beyond my level. I've never played a Chopin etude before and I don't think I'm ready for them yet.

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #6 on: June 29, 2016, 02:15:52 AM »
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Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline visitor

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #7 on: June 29, 2016, 01:06:24 PM »
looks like it's taking shape nicely for you.
i like your technical facility and natural looking arm/hand positioning when i watched a few seconds of it somewhere towards the middle before I minimized again but kept listening  
I think you can slow it down a tad to work some kinks out.
Also, maybe it's recording equipment but i feel you can explore some more swelling/backing off up and down the keyboard.
I like to try and play out as i head up to higher registers when appropriate , the strings are shorter w higher tension and they have trouble competing w the middle lower registers, so maybe look at cresc up more as you head up , which means you can hit the attack/first notes of the chord then back off a bit so you have room to build volume into those to end swells. I think you can play up the drama, A LOT more. analyzing the harmoney and building larger dramatic cresc to line up w/ the more harmonic tension and backing off on resolutions would be something to explore as well...

still those are minor relative to the achievement you have built so far. Kudos for taking on and sticking to/w the piece. not my cup of tea Fred wise (i like-LOVE the mazurkas, but etudes a couple are sorta neat but they don't appeal to me all that much). Given i don't care for the piece, i just sorta listened to in the background w the tab minimized so i could listen while i did some other things, and there's some neat /interesting moments in there.


Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #8 on: June 29, 2016, 02:07:48 PM »
Brian, richardb and visitor- thank you for feedback! :-)I will write more later.
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #9 on: June 29, 2016, 02:38:20 PM »
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Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline kalospiano

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #10 on: June 29, 2016, 06:05:21 PM »
woah! I see, you're hot, now I understand why brian is stalkering you all the time in the forum.

Excellent playing, for sure it's improvable but still I wish I was at that level.
I also wish the video had a higher audio quality. Hope you'll get better recording equipment for next time :)

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #11 on: June 29, 2016, 09:34:38 PM »
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Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #12 on: June 30, 2016, 04:07:49 PM »
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Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #13 on: July 10, 2016, 01:01:35 PM »
Thank you guys for taking your time to listen and comment!
Visitor, thank you for your kind remarks! I heard exactly the same advice about dynamics from my teacher, indeed.
Richardb, you are right. Learning the etude in 3 note chords first speeds up memorizing process and helps find out the most convenient hand positions to execute each arpeggio.
Also Cortot exercises for this particular etude are very helpful.
The quality of the recording is not really good. I will see what I can do to improve it.
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline 109natsu

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #14 on: July 11, 2016, 12:19:07 AM »
Hi Kawai_cs,

First of all congratulations on playing such a fantastic piece! I love to listen to other people play the pieces that I have played, it gives me new thoughts and creates an atmosphere to give feedbacks.

I am going to ignore Brian for a moment... If you think you are getting stalked, call the Internet Helpline :) (idk)

Here are my thoughts;
-I really like how you grouped your notes in fours, not threes. Your use of arms was good. I took a lot of time figuring it out.
-Even though you were filled with bunch of notes, you never forgot about the melody and the chord progressions. Also, you were able to bring the bass out, not just the top.
-Your pedaling was clear.

Now, to constructive criticism... :'(
-I think you need to tune your piano. I have perfect pitch and it bothers me, sorry!!!
-I also think that you need to play from memory. You usually play from memory when you perform, and you should practice that when you are recording as well. Memorizing a piece also helps you practice on the go too.
-Measure 1: first note is the beginning of all the arpeggios! Everything blooms from there. Also, the first and the last notes are what the audience remembers the most. You need start without banging the key. (my personal opinion)
-Measure 23: More special there :) Transition to 6th.
-Also in measure measure 58, there is a Neapolitan 6th chord, (special flat 2), so in my opinion you need to drastically change the color there.
-Every time you have a four octave arpeggio (instead of three) you might want to bring out the 3rd note of the 4 sixteenth notes. For example, in measure 16, you want to bring out the low E natural (beat 2&), D (beat 3&), and G (beat 4&). Just a suggestion, try that and see if you like it.

Once again, these are just suggestions, you don't have to do them. I'm not a teacher, I'm still a student :)

*-*

Natsu Ozawa
Bloomington, IN

PS: I don't agree with
Richardb, you are right. Learning the etude in 3 note chords first speeds up memorizing process and helps find out the most convenient hand positions to execute each arpeggio.
They give you bad habits of sticking in to bouncy rhythms, and you will lose your sense of pulse.

Anyway, Happy practicing!

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #15 on: July 12, 2016, 12:01:42 PM »
Hi Natsu,
thank you for your feedback, highly appreciated! My piano is a digital, but probably already pretty worn out since I have been using it hard for more than 1.5 yrs. I will definitely give your suggestions  a try and see how I like them.
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline deandeblock

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #16 on: July 12, 2016, 03:39:26 PM »
Nice playing ! Only the recording quality is really bad... why not invest in a Tascam Recorder when you can play like that?


You look great btw  :)
work hard, play hard

Offline spenstar

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #17 on: July 12, 2016, 07:16:17 PM »
It sounded great! The only suggestion I have is to buy a better mic. The Sure SM57 is a decently priced one. You can find it on eBay for around $75. If that's took much, really anything not your phone mic is good lol.

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #18 on: July 13, 2016, 01:43:43 AM »
@deandeblock, @spenstar - thank you :)
I will definitely make a better quality recording of my next piece!
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline 109natsu

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #19 on: July 13, 2016, 01:48:08 AM »
Hi Natsu,
thank you for your feedback, highly appreciated! My piano is a digital, but probably already pretty worn out since I have been using it hard for more than 1.5 yrs. I will definitely give your suggestions  a try and see how I like them.
Your welcome! Hope to hear your next piece!
I didn't know a digital piano can go out of tune hmm... It might be the microphone. Anyway, I am not a specialist, and I too am looking to buy a good recording microphone.

Offline pjjslp

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #20 on: July 13, 2016, 02:26:10 AM »
Wow, very impressive! I love how natural and relaxed your playing is. You make it look easy, which I certainly know it is not. Lovely!

Offline swagmaster420x

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #21 on: July 13, 2016, 03:42:54 AM »
Hehe, briansaddleback is such a fu6q9ing creep it makes me gag  :)

Offline debussychopin

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #22 on: July 21, 2016, 03:40:45 PM »
This is a beautiful performance , due to a variety of reasons.  Entertaining and pleasing to view. Please make more.  :)))
Menuet Suite Bergamasque

Offline jeffkonkol

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #23 on: August 01, 2016, 02:21:42 AM »
Other folks have mentioned the tuning and recording quality, so I don't need to bring those up.

I have been working on this etude on and off for quite some time, so I am familiar with the challenges, and I'm quite taken by how easily you handle some of the passages that I find difficult.

I think you can improve your performance in a few areas.

1- pedal - It felt a bit ham-handed.  I think working in some flutter or half pedal in some sections will allow you to add some additional textures to your performance.  This piece is tremendous, but if each and every wave is given the same treatment, it can lose the audience over time.

2- tempo / rubato - you are probably 6-10 metronome points down from most performance versions of this, but with split keys already I wouldn't recommend pushing that tempo further right now.  However... have you considered playing a little bit within each wave?   For me, going up is much easier.... with the hardest point in each wave being the last few notes... maybe try to let the waves breath a bit more... speeding up as you reach the crest, and pausing ever so slightly at the top... letting them slow a bit at the end so that you have more dynamic control as you hit the melody notes at the bottom.

3- dynamics - more... simply as that... give us more !

4- gesture - I really loved watching your hands on this.  You can probably pick up some speed with some more wrist rotation, essentially rolling the chord at each hand position.... try it.. it works on some waves, but not on others.  What you have going isn't broken by any stretch of the imagination, so perhaps don't 'fix' it.

Offline chris2014

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #24 on: August 01, 2016, 07:47:46 AM »

Wow, nice work on the Chopin Etude

Any advice I could give to you is to voice the middle note of the arpeggios a bit more, in contrast to not have such a harsh bottom note, as it can ruin the mood of the piece.

Also if possible try to work a bit more on the dynamics and phrasing, especially with the crescendos and diminuendos as you rise and fall, like a storm at sea, but not too strong that it sounds too much.

Besides that, everything is quite to my taste besides the keys sounding a bit out of tune.
- Chris

Offline debussychopin

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #25 on: August 04, 2016, 08:37:36 PM »

1- pedal - It felt a bit ham-handed. 
But that's how she got those killer calf muscles
Menuet Suite Bergamasque

Offline jeffkonkol

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Re: Chopin, Etude op 25 no 12
«Reply #26 on: August 05, 2016, 03:15:26 AM »
I have literally no choice to bow to the wisdom of the last comment....