The Other German Pianos

[onesurfer1]

How do the other pianos such as German Feurich (not Chinese), Ibach, Bosendorfer compare to Steinway ??  u can always find them a better bargain used than any Steinway!!!!

[visitor]

The top shelf germans (and austriansince bosey= austria) i feel from experience of ones i played more to my liking than american ss i cannot say they are better than hamburg ss Probably close, but germans ss are really that good.

i still pick a shigeru over anything i have ever played.

the only two german  non ss thought i could really like was steingraeber und sohn, wow those things are incredible.  and a couple of super nice seiler grands i tried.

i have yet to play august forster.


https://www.steingraeber.de/english/home_29.html#!prettyPhoto

[iansinclair]

How do the other pianos such as German Feurich (not Chinese), Ibach, Bosendorfer compare to Steinway ??  u can always find them a better bargain used than any Steinway!!!!

Well... not quite true.  However, that aside -- the most accurate comment which I could make is that they are different, not only from Steinway but also from each other (both between makes and within makes).  Some people really like this one or that one; others really truly don't.  Therefore, if you are actually planning to look at instruments of that class, there is no substitute for actually sitting down in front of them and playing them, and then buying the one you like -- regardless of what it says on the fallboard!

[outin]

iBach seems to have a good reputation. My teacher has an older one and I think it's quite nice, light in touch, very suitable for things like Scarlatti. Not so much if you want a roaring bass...

[onesurfer1]

do any of those (other than SS) german/austrian pianos have a good enough bass for scriabin??  i.e. ibach, bosendorfer, feurich...

[visitor]

do any of those (other than SS) german/austrian pianos have a good enough bass for scriabin??  i.e. ibach, bosendorfer, feurich...

all well maintained and properly prepped piaoos in that tier should be more than adequate.  The bass properties are most affected by the size of the instrument and scale design.

a modern ibach
w ould be awesome  but they are pricey and its a shame they are out of production.

in the german camp  there really is Not a bad option between similar size new or good maint. Slightly used ones from steingraeber und sohne, steinway, grotian steinweg, schimmel bluthner bechstein, seiler sauter, august forster, etc.

honestly at a certain point quality control is there at a minimum std so it is personal preference after a while.

in that tier i would compare vs my top two 3 other pianos
 Shigeru kawai, i feel is best piano made but almost tied that i also absolutely fell in love w was a new 6 3 charles walter grand  i played. Loved it more any any german top end  piano i tried, and being american there is less of a snob tax on it,


Charles R. Walter Piano Company - Grand Pianos

https://www.walterpiano.com/profile/

[visitor]

if you are looking at tier one German, like I said before, one must also consider Steingraeber. Doesn't make sense to look at Bechy, SS, Bosey, Ibach, and company and not also try these guys. the instruments are incredible.

i mean this pretty much sums it up
If you buy a new Steingraeber, you will regret it. I don't know how else to put this. Consider yourself warned by one who knows.

We received a shipment of new Steingraebers on Wednesday of this week. I can no longer sleep, eat or concentrate.

On Wednesday, we opened a 212 and a 192. After working a 12 hour day, in which most of it was spent doing mind numbing tasks, I made the mistake of sitting down at the 212.

I blinked and 2 hours had gone by. It was close to 11 pm and I didn't care. I hadn't eaten since breakfast and I didn't care. All I wanted to do was play this piano. I was smitten. Bach, Brahms, Mozart, Bartok, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff and more got played and each sounded better than the last. I enjoyed playing the piano. I wanted to practice. I wanted to play. The piano was inspiring me. It was teaching me. It was helping me sound better than I deserved, yet at the same time showing me how very far I had to go. I had thoughts of giving concerts. I was ready to toss it all, find a cave somewhere, and it would just be me and a Steingraeber and I would do nothing but practice, play and compose.

I fell in love with that piano. Seriously. Love. I was so deep in love that I asked that Steingraeber to marry me. I knew I wasn't worthy, but I thought I could become a better man if only that piano would have me.

Well, fortunately for me, it didn't respond to my proposal, because today we finally got around to opening up the 232. I would like to express my response to that piano, but this is a family website.
What the heck. HOLY MOTHER @#(*@#(@&#(@&#@(#&@(#&@*&#(@&# how is it possible?
That 232 is so good, my head exploded. Literally. That is the only reason I stopped playing. KABOOM. Head exploded. It is some kind of miracle that I can even write this with an exploded head. It shouldn't be possible. I think I am summoning my last bits of strength to warn others, so they don't share the same fate as me.

Please listen. Unless you want to end up wanting to marry a piano, while no longer being able to take care of your normal responsibilities such as concentrating at work and being productive, not to mention completely ignoring your basic human needs such as eating and sleeping, quite possibly ending up living in a cave by yourself with only a Steingraeber piano, and spending what is left of your life with an exploded head, PLEASE DO NOT BUY A STEINGRAEBER PIANO.

heck, it is playing with fire to even try one.

I know for some of you this will fall on deaf ears, but if I can just save one person from my fate, it will all be worth it.

I would write more, but I have to leave. The only hardware store that sells surgical quality duct tape for holding one's skull together is closing soon, and if the rest of my brain falls out, I might drool on the Steingraebers as I play them and that just seems wrong somehow. Although, I suppose that might disuade anyone from buying one of them and taking them from me. Mine! All MINE!!!!!!! MuahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

Well, if you have gotten this far, you cannot plead ignorance. Whatever fate you suffer at the hands of a Steingraeber piano is your own fault.

You have been warned.
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann
www.pianocraft.net

videos

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

[pjjslp]

Really enjoyed this post! So sorry about your exploded head, but it sounds like it was worth it. Thanks for sharing this cautionary tale, so I won't make the same mistakes when I start my search for a grand in a few years.

[rich_galassini]

While I know and respect Keith Kerman, I have different preferences than he does. I have played several Steingraeber pianos in a high end dealership and, although they certainly are wonderfully built pianos, I prefer the beautiful pastel colors I can coax from a Bosendorfer or a Bechstein. The prep of the dealer I spent time with may be different than Keith's (although this dealer clearly said many times that his skills are better than anyone else on the planet).  

This is not meant as a slight to Udo Steingraeber, Keith, or any other lover of these beautiful instruments. I think it is more about personal preference. We can all agree on which pianos are beautiful, but which piano is above all others is very subjective and probably depends on the actual instrument in question.

Cheers,

[visitor]

While I know and respect Keith Kerman, I have different preferences than he does. I have played several Steingraeber pianos in a high end dealership and, although they certainly are wonderfully built pianos, I prefer the beautiful pastel colors I can coax from a Bosendorfer or a Bechstein. The prep of the dealer I spent time with may be different than Keith's (although this dealer clearly said many times that his skills are better than anyone else on the planet).  

This is not meant as a slight to Udo Steingraeber, Keith, or any other lover of these beautiful instruments. I think it is more about personal preference. We can all agree on which pianos are beautiful, but which piano is above all others is very subjective and probably depends on the actual instrument in question.

Cheers,

great counter. Although I did like the Steingraebers I tried, I still have not been as enamored with an instrument as with the Shigeru Kawais I played. To me (again  to your point it's subjective at certain quality/price points) they are as close to perfect as they can get from the  stunning examples I played.
On the other end of the spectrum I absolutely was floored by the power, color, tone of the Charles Walter  6 footer/plus I played at the Steinway house in town. They had a wonderful mahogany one on the floor that they said was still in need of a little tweaking as as it sat, i preferred it to every single SS they had in stock (including a couple really sweet Bs).

[escott]

I agree with BOTH Keith and Rich.

First, I have a Steingraeber 232 that I bought from Keith, and it is still my favorite piano that I've ever played.  My reaction to it is pretty much like Keith's post above.  I picked Steinraeber after looking at virtually every other piano out there, including the others that have been named in this thread.

That said, at this level, ALL of the pianos are extremely well made, and they are all different.  It's not possible to rank them on a linear scale -- there is no "batting average" for fine pianos.

My personal preference is for the Steingraeber sound and action.  But I can perfectly well understand a better player than me preferring Bosie, Bechstein, Bluthner, Sauter, Shigeru Kawai, or a good Steinway (among others).

It really is a matter of how well a good piano matches your personal taste and preferences.

[chrisbutch]

s a matter of interest were any of the Steingraebers mentioned the 'Phoenix' version? (ie with optional fitting of Richard Dain's bridge agraffes)?

[escott]

I have never seen a Phoenix/Steingraeber.