Digital piano/acoustic piano

[fowler]

Hi,

Something has been racking my brains for a while now, I have a Roland Hp7/e digital piano and feel like my playing is good and very good at times. However when I go to my piano teachers house and play on her Welmar upright I dont play anywhere near as well and all my confidence goes, I am wondering if I am only particulary good on my piano and not other real piano's. Is it unproductive to practice all the time on a digital piano maybe?  I spent loads of money on the piano, and it is fully weighted and a good tone based on a steinway grand. I am worried that I am not as good as I seem.

My teachers piano seems heavier and much harder to keep notes together and play fast, I dont understand and it really annoys me. Does anyone know how hard it is to play a real grand piano such as a steinway for example, are the keys very heavy making it difficult to play? Do you think an all round good performance can be just as good on a digital as a real piano, and is it essential to practice on the real thing as opposed to a digital piano?

[Alde]

I have tried every electronic keyboard in the market and I am convinced nothing beats a real piano.  The closest product is probably Yamaha' upright with electronic triggers.  This piano has a real action however no strings/soundboard.  The sound is OK, yet the action is good.

[Cadenza_Ad_Libitum]

That might be a reason why digital pianos are cheaper than acoustics in general: they have no strings. Consequently, the movements of the keys are not as realistic as acoustic pianos, often lighter, and playing too much on them will give out different technique that might be unsuitable to acoustics.

[timothy42b]

And yet, it might be that a good digital is better than a bad or poorly maintained acoustic.  Is your teacher's piano in really good shape?

The other thing is that with the pressure to perform under scrutiny, most of us play worse at a lesson, especially on the first couple pieces of the session, than we did at the end of the night at home, when we were comfortable and relaxed and had just got the piece worked out. 

I have noticed one specific problem that I attributed to doing my practice on the digital.  I was sometimes leaving a finger on a key without playing it.  This made no sound on the digital, but on the acoustic it let the string vibrate when other notes were played.  Though I didn't notice it without my attention being called to it, my teacher did (drove her nuts). 

[xvimbi]

Something has been racking my brains for a while now, I have a Roland Hp7/e digital piano and feel like my playing is good and very good at times. However when I go to my piano teachers house and play on her Welmar upright I dont play anywhere near as well and all my confidence goes, I am wondering if I am only particulary good on my piano and not other real piano's. Is it unproductive to practice all the time on a digital piano maybe?  I spent loads of money on the piano, and it is fully weighted and a good tone based on a steinway grand. I am worried that I am not as good as I seem.

My teachers piano seems heavier and much harder to keep notes together and play fast, I dont understand and it really annoys me. Does anyone know how hard it is to play a real grand piano such as a steinway for example, are the keys very heavy making it difficult to play? Do you think an all round good performance can be just as good on a digital as a real piano, and is it essential to practice on the real thing as opposed to a digital piano?

It is generally rather difficult to play on different pianos and get the same result. Even seasoned concert pianists need time to adjust to a given piano and a given hall. With experience, they are able to get the hang of a different piano within half an hour or so, but they still need to adapt. So, don't be surprised that you don't get the same results.

In addition, digitals, uprights and grands all have very different mechanisms for sound production. The action is different on all three types. It is only natural that you are having difficulties.

I would recommend playing on any piano you can get your hands on. Go to stores and check out any model, both digitals as well as acoustics; even if it's only a few chords and a few notes in the bass and treble. It's a good learning experience. You will also get an idea about which action and sound you like best, so when it comes time to get a "real" piano, you'll be prepared.

I have noticed one specific problem that I attributed to doing my practice on the digital.  I was sometimes leaving a finger on a key without playing it.  This made no sound on the digital, but on the acoustic it let the string vibrate when other notes were played.  Though I didn't notice it without my attention being called to it, my teacher did (drove her nuts). 

Halfway decent digitals nowadays have sound samples that include sympathetic vibrations. Older or cheaper sound samples, however, don't emulate this effect.

[Herve]

I have been a student of the piano for 30 years and currently I play both a Yamaha P-80 and a C. Bechstein B, a few feet away.  I learn notes on the 80 and polish and perform on the B.  In the past I've owned a Kawai GS 30 and a new Yamaha C7. 

I'm also an amateur piano technician and have recently helped an RPT re-build a Steinway M, including sound board and new bridge cap.

I've never palyed the Roland you are playing, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's a great instrumnet.

Sorry to have to bad mouth "the real thing", but my 80 is a far better "piano" than ALL uprights I've ever played and most grands, as well.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if your teacher's Welmar upright is inferior to your Roland in both "touch and tone". 

If you like your teacher, why don't you have her come over to your place to hear you play and try your instrument?  I'd love to hear what she has to say.

[richard w]

I'm a bit ignorant about how successful or otherwise modern digitals are with imitating sympathetic vibrations, but you can carry out a few tests to discover what differences exist. For instance, put the pedal down and play a big chord, or just an individual note. On the acoustic, you're likely to find that you get quite an unclean sound, compared to a digital. This can be one of the problems with practising on a digital - there is no difference in pedalling before a chord or after one, whereas on an acoustic it will be instantly obvious to the astute player that a much cleaner sound can be produced by pedalling after. You might find that your pedalling is partly responsible.

Of course, putting the pedal down after a chord actually changes the sound slightly on an acoustic, so even if you are pedalling correctly, it may well be that the pedal is adding to the tone of the acoustic in a way that your digital cannot.

Then, things like the tuning and voicing of your teacher's piano, which even if as perfect as possible may well contain minute inaccuracies which, compared to your perfectly tuned and voiced digital, could make the sound seem slightly less satisfactory. And, if your teacher's piano is not perfect in these respects this will make a vast difference. Even a very fine piano will not be as satisfying to play if it is not properly in tune. Tactile unevenness resulting from the imperfect regulation of the action will also have a similar effect - the player 'feels' the piano just as much as he hears it.

Just some thoughts which might account for the differences. As suggested, try a high-quality grand out in a music store and see how the experience compares.

[gyzzzmo]

hi fowler,

2 years ago i bought myself a yamaha clavinova clp-950. I went to many shops and played on almost every available digital piano.
My parents have a very good yamaha acoustic piano and i played many grand piano's, so i had something to compare with.
Some digital piano's are quite good when you play on them and playing on them is satisfactionary.
But when i go to my parents, and play on their piano the playing sounds very lousy.
Its not strange, because a digital piano has 4 soundboxes(?) and an accoustic piano
has dozens of boxes, because every single string is one.
So one note on an acoustic wil always have much more emotion then one on a stupid digital (i do like my digital piano though).

And youve probably seen the rediculous amount of mechanics, requered to create one note on a acoustic. It really cant be simulated on a digital piano.....

This is the reason.
So buy a digital when you dont like to bother the neighbours with your beatiful tones, and/or dont want to spend a lot of money.
But you wil always miss something about the sound, and you notice when you play on a acoustic piano.

Good luck,
Gyzzzmo

[tocca]

I think you will adapt to an acoustic Piano/Grand real fast if you play on one regulary.
For me it have never been a problem to switch, but then almost every Piano/Grand i've played have lighter action than my digital! I tested every single digital piano i could get my hands before buying, and this one was the only one i found with action that was good enough for me (at that time, four years ago. Today there are other good ones).

Richard W: There's a huge difference between pedaling after or before on most digitals. On my Kawai i can set the amount of sympathetic resonance, with the setting at default i am not able to tell the difference from an acoustic piano.

In my case, i played on first an upright from age 6 to 10 then a Grand from 10 up to when i bought the digital so this is most certainly a big factor in why it's easy for me to adapt to an acoustic. But with a really good digital: REALLY good that is, you'll be better off than with a less than good maintained actoustic one.

I would very much want a grand, and i was not happy when it became clear i needed to trade in my grand for digital to be able to have a piano at home (and above all to be able to practise at the hours when i'm free to practise!), but i must say that i'm more than happy with my digital.

[richard w]

Richard W: There's a huge difference between pedaling after or before on most digitals. On my Kawai i can set the amount of sympathetic resonance, with the setting at default i am not able to tell the difference from an acoustic piano.

No digital piano I have regular contact with offers sympathetic vibration, and that can't be good for a beginner to learn to pedal on, but I'm encouraged by the fact that this is now successfully imitated. What digital do you have? I'm interested, because I'll shortly be moving into a house where it might not be appropriate for me to play my acoustic piano late at night, which is something I rather like doing. Among the options is getting a digital. The other advantages appeal too, like recording and listening to my progress, as well as playing duets with myself, or indeed piano concertos.

Thanks.



Richard.

[xvimbi]

No digital piano I have regular contact with offers sympathetic vibration, and that can't be good for a beginner to learn to pedal on, but I'm encouraged by the fact that this is now successfully imitated. What digital do you have? I'm interested, because I'll shortly be moving into a house where it might not be appropriate for me to play my acoustic piano late at night, which is something I rather like doing. Among the options is getting a digital. The other advantages appeal too, like recording and listening to my progress, as well as playing duets with myself, or indeed piano concertos.

I think, all of the better digitals nowadays have sound samples that emulate sympathetic vibrations.  The regular Yamaha sound samples (P and PF series, Clavinovas) certainly do. The richness of the result will depend on the polyphony. With 32 polyphony, one can only sound 16 (in stereo) or 32 (in mono) notes at the same time, so if one plays a big 10-note chord with the pedal down, there will not be the full gamut of sympathetic vibrations. 128 polyphony should suffice for most purposes.

Also, I have yet to see a really good emulation of pedaling on a digital. The shades of sound one can achieve on an acoustic are just so numerous; built-in sound samples with on-the-fly sound modulation will not be able to simulate this. Really great samples combined with very good actions come awfully close though.

[gyzzzmo]

hi,
To my opinion, now most digital piano's (clavinovas) all have very reasonable technique (also good samples).
You should just try them and experience. Buy the one you like most. A more expensive one doesnt have to be better then a very cheap one! (but sometimes touche is different, the digitals with wooden notes are more expensive)
The greatest reason of the different price between piano's is related to the amount of special (not useful) functions, which we probably never use.

Good luck with buying,
Gyzzzmo

[fowler]

Thanks for the messages, my concern is more towards touch and technique, but it sounds like a lot of people can adapt well to other piano's anyway. Because my teachers piano is heavier to the touch I think overall playing is not quite as good as on my digital. Hopefully this does not affect my piano training in the long run with just practising hours on the same instrument.

[James_Robert]

I have both a digital and an acoustic.  I bought the digital so I could practice at night while the baby sleeps.  It is now at my office where I play almost every day.  I then go home and play the acoustic almost every day.  I have been doing this for so long that it doesn't bother me because I know what to expect from each piano.  I find it easier to start learning new pieces on the digital.  I tend to use less pedal so I don't muck up the sound so much. (I use too much pedal always)  This allows me to here my mistakes better so when I go home to play I enjoy the sound from the acoustic more. James