VIDEO: J. S. Bach - WTC 1: Fugue No. 2 in C minor (BWV 847)

[jacobson]

Instrument: Yamaha Arius YDP-163.

Recording equipment: Steinberg UR22 MKII

Software: Audacity

[georgey]

This is how a Bach fugue should sound.  Recording equipment also sounds great.

[jacobson]

This is how a Bach fugue should sound.  Recording equipment also sounds great.

Thank you!

I'm looking forward to posting more videos.

[ajlongspiano]

This is extremely well done. Great clarity, voicing, shaping, and sense of style. Glad to have you on the forum!

Best,

AJ

[georgey]

Thank you!

I'm looking forward to posting more videos.

Hi Jacobson.   It's me again. I listened to a recording of this fugue #2 WTC book 1 played by Andras Schiff in 1984 on London label and I enjoyed your playing more than his on this work and the quality of your piano sound was better to me.  Do you plan on recording more Bach WTC?  

I am a self-taught beginner piano player that made a very poor attempt at Bach WTC book 1 fugue 1 posted a few days ago.  I play a Yamaha Avantgrand N1 recorded using Yamaha AG03 mixer and Cubase software.  Forgetting my poor playing, I’m wondering why your piano recording sounds so much better than mine.  When you listen to you playing through headphones without a recording devise, does your piano sound the same as your recording, or does your recording device add extra acoustics, etc?  Sorry if this is a dumb question.  I have my Avantgrand set at full reverb. I hate anything computer related and I know next to nothing about Cubase and the AG03.  Thank you.

[jacobson]

This is extremely well done. Great clarity, voicing, shaping, and sense of style. Glad to have you on the forum!

Best,

AJ

Thank you!

[jacobson]

Hi Jacobson.   It's me again. I listened to a recording of this fugue #2 WTC book 1 played by Andras Schiff in 1984 on London label and I enjoyed your playing more than his on this work and the quality of your piano sound was better to me.

Wow, thanks for such very kind words. I'm glad you like it. Saying you enjoyed it more than Schiff's recording is very flattering, I must admit.

Do you plan on recording more Bach WTC?

Yes.

I am a self-taught beginner piano player that made a very poor attempt at Bach WTC book 1 fugue 1 posted a few days ago.  I play a Yamaha Avantgrand N1 recorded using Yamaha AG03 mixer and Cubase software.  Forgetting my poor playing, I’m wondering why your piano recording sounds so much better than mine.  When you listen to you playing through headphones without a recording devise, does your piano sound the same as your recording, or does your recording device add extra acoustics, etc?  Sorry if this is a dumb question.  I have my Avantgrand set at full reverb. I hate anything computer related and I know next to nothing about Cubase and the AG03.  Thank you.

Regarding your fugue recording, I will listen to it and comment.

Now, about my sound. As I've written, I use a Steinberg UR22 MKII audio interface. My digital piano doesn't have a line-out, only phones out, so I do phones out to Steinberg's line-in. Using phones out automatically turns the piano silent, but thankfully my piano has two phones outputs, so I use the other output to connect to very inexpensive PC speakers to hear myself when playing. Of course I could use headphones instead of speakers, but I don't like wearing them when doing videos.

Before I begin to record anything, I try to play as loud as possible, especially in the bass, while checking in Audacity if any clipping/distortion is taking place. Here are the details of my settings:

- Volume knob on my digital piano:  2 o'clock
- The L/R gain input knobs on my Steinberg interface: 11 o'clock
- Steinberg interface settings: 96 Khz
- Audacity recording settings: 96 Khz / 32-bit float
- Audacity recording slider: maximum, all the way to the right

The reverb you hear is from the digital piano. The only effect I used in Audacity is normalize. I normalized the audio at -0.1 dB, to get a louder sound without any distortion. Others normalize at different values such as 0.0, -1.0, -2.0, -3.0, et cetera. It depends on the original recording and how much loudness you want without the sound distorting. There are those who prefer "Amplify" instead of "Normalize", but that's a different discussion. Either way, you have to watch for clipping in Audacity, and "View -> Show Clipping" should be enabled.

I use the final Audacity file (96 Khz / 32-bit float) to export to various formats. The one used in this video is lossless PCM WAV 48000 Hz / 24-bit. YouTube downgraded it to 44100 Hz / 16-bit and compressed it, but that is normal with YouTube. There are many different debates on what kind of audio to upload to YouTube, but the most popular recommendations are: PCM WAV 48000 Hz / 24-bit (or 16-bit) and 44100 Hz / 24-bit (or 16-bit). If you want to burn your tracks to an audio CD, then you need to use 44100 Hz / 16-bit, as this is audio CD quality.
Hope this helps. If you have additional questions, please ask. If there's a delay in some of my replies, I apologize, as I have some things going on.

I'm sure there are much cheaper interfaces that will do a similar job, as I've talked to someone using a fairly inexpensive Behringer interface with very good results, so, maybe this could be of interest to you. Many people complain of latency issues with cheaper interfaces, but as long as you won't be using your interface for virtual pianos and trying to hear your playing through the interface, latency is not something you should worry about. That said, most of the cheaper interfaces would probably not allow to record at 96 Hz like the Steinberg does, so there would be a somewhat decreased quality in the end after the audio is finalized, although probably not much.

Hope this helps.

[georgey]

Jacobson,  Thank you very much for taking the time to give this information!  I locked my Bach WTC book 1 Fugue 1 thread the day after I recorded it because I am not happy with this so you will not be able to comment.  If you ever post this piece, I will surely use this as my reference recording if it is as nice as your fugue 2.  I am going to play around with my Yamaha AG03 and Cubase software to match some of the settings you say to see if this improves things.  You say you did not add reverb.  I wish my piano had a little more.  I may end up buying your Steinberg UR22 MKII and the audacity software if I can’t get better sound.  Thanks again and I look forward to you next WTC recording!

EDIT: I did want to mention my love for the Yamaha Avantgrand N1.  Even though it may not have the best sound, it has a real grand piano action (taken from Yamaha C3 grand?) and so I have confidence I will be able to easily adjust to a real grand piano when I start taking lessons or participate in a group recital.

[jacobson]

Jacobson,  Thank you very much for taking the time to give this information!

Sure, no problem.

I locked my Bach WTC book 1 Fugue 1 thread the day after I recorded it because I am not happy with this so you will not be able to comment.

You probably shouldn't have, as I'm sure the recording isn't as bad as you think it is.

If you ever post this piece, I will surely use this as my reference recording if it is as nice as your fugue 2.  I am going to play around with my Yamaha AG03 and Cubase software to match some of the settings you say to see if this improves things.  You say you did not add reverb.  I wish my piano had a little more.  I may end up buying your Steinberg UR22 MKII and the audacity software if I can’t get better sound.  Thanks again and I look forward to you next WTC recording!

Audacity is completely free software though. You'd only have to buy the Steinberg and proper cables. If you intend to use headphones while recording, you wouldn't need any additional speakers for monitoring either. On the other hand, if the Avantgrand has a line-out, then your speakers wouldn't turn silent while recording. There are many ways to set this up. For example, I don't like to hear my piano very loud while recording, especially at the volume level I record in, so that's why I like the fact that I can turn the piano's volume up and lower it on the external speakers.

EDIT: I did want to mention my love for the Yamaha Avantgrand N1.  Even though it may not have the best sound, it has a real grand piano action (taken from Yamaha C3 grand?) and so I have confidence I will be able to easily adjust to a real grand piano when I start taking lessons or participate in a group recital.

I'm sure the Avantgrand N1 is a great instrument. With the right approach, you could get fantastic recording quality with it. If I can do it with a YDP-163, then you should have nothing to worry about.

[georgey]

I just need to spend more time on the fugue and figure out what I am trying to say musically with the piece.   It is on the back burner now but I will try again in another year.  

My ear is weird and perhaps faulty when it comes to piano sound, but I know when I hear something I like.  I only listen with headphones.  My first piano I got 11 years ago was a Yamaha CP 100 and I thought it had the most beautiful piano sound after playing around with the many acoustic parameters.   The Avantgrand does not have any ability except reverb which I put on full.  It sounds a little dead to me, but I am sure it is very accurate to a real piano sound, but not in the acoustic environment I would like.  

Anyway, I have taken enough of your time.  Great playing and thanks again!  

[jacobson]

I just need to spend more time on the fugue and figure out what I am trying to say musically with the piece.   It is on the back burner now but I will try again in another year.  

My ear is weird and perhaps faulty when it comes to piano sound, but I know when I hear something I like.  I only listen with headphones.  My first piano I got 11 years ago was a Yamaha CP 100 and I thought it had the most beautiful piano sound after playing around with the many acoustic parameters.   The Avantgrand does not have any ability except reverb which I put on full.  It sounds a little dead to me, but I am sure it is very accurate to a real piano sound, but not in the acoustic environment I would like.  

Anyway, I have taken enough of your time.  Great playing and thanks again!  

No problem, you're welcome, and thanks.

BTW, I also sent you a private message a few days ago.

[georgey]

No problem, you're welcome, and thanks.

BTW, I also sent you a private message a few days ago.

I sent you a reply just now.  When I look on my "outbox" though, the reply is not there.  Let me know if you do not receive the reply.  Thanks.