Mendelssohn SONGS WITHOUT WORDS op.67 No.2 Isolating Melody in RH & Memorizing

[mrcreosote]

The score that I have has the "accompaniment" split between the L & R hands - the RH taking just the top note of the chord-arpeggios.

While this is best for distributing the notes between the hands, it is an extra challenge to on he RH to melody delays relative to the accompanyment which is also part of the RH.

I've tried playing the accomp entirely in the LH leaving the RH to focus on the simple melody, but at any kind of speed that becomes much more difficult for the LH.

I've been looking at isolating the melody in the RH only when I need to introduce the delays which are usually the first note in the phrase.

I'm wondering if different editions of this score have different sharings on the accomp?
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RE:  Memorizing: 

First, memorizing is quite difficult for me.  While I surprised myself and knocked out Prokofiev's Precipitato in 4-5 weeks (very fast or me), this piece's accompaniment is so arbitrary, there simply are no "memory markers" - it's like driving a race course laid out in a parking lot - no visual references to set up your line since you can't see what corner you are in. 

Horowitz's Stars and Stripes is same problem - each pass is just a little different with an arbitrary variation. 

My solution to these problems, is to play them the same (or improvise if I was capable) and of course, NO repeats (especially S&S), I'm my own Flash Mob when I play and it's best to finish before they lose interest.

FYI:  Bach and Beethoven for me is precise since hey use the "best solution."  Prokofiev, ironically, is similar since there is only one solution to get the dissonance he wants.  Chopin is tough because every time he repeats a theme, he modifies it just a little - an improvisation - with is quite arbitrary with no "memory markers."

[109natsu]

Hi mrcreosote,

I don't think taking all of the accompaniment with the left hand is a good idea. I took a look at several scores on IMSLP.
Link: https://imslp.org/wiki/Lieder_ohne_Worte,_Op.67_(Mendelssohn,_Felix)
And none of them, CF Peters and Breitkopf & Härtel, have the accompaniment together in the left hand.

For playing it, you will need to practice in the following steps;
1) play the just the melody with any fingering, but play it musically
2) play the melody with the fingering that you would use if you were playing the accompaniment, but try it to play it as musically as you did last time
3) play the accompaniment by itself, both hands
4) slowly play all of right hand, and discipline yourself into playing musically
5) slowly play both hands
6) speed up

If you need help memorizing, check the numerous other threads about memorizing on the forum.

Happy practicing,
Natsu

[mrcreosote]

Sounds like a solid approach.

There are places here and there where RH accomp can be shifted to LH, but yes, it would be quite the technical challenge to play all accomp in LH at any kind of speed.  But then it just depends how skilled one is.

Thanks

[louispodesta]

The score that I have has the "accompaniment" split between the L & R hands - the RH taking just the top note of the chord-arpeggios.

While this is best for distributing the notes between the hands, it is an extra challenge to on he RH to melody delays relative to the accompanyment which is also part of the RH.

I've tried playing the accomp entirely in the LH leaving the RH to focus on the simple melody, but at any kind of speed that becomes much more difficult for the LH.

I've been looking at isolating the melody in the RH only when I need to introduce the delays which are usually the first note in the phrase.

I'm wondering if different editions of this score have different sharings on the accomp?
________________

RE:  Memorizing: 

First, memorizing is quite difficult for me.  While I surprised myself and knocked out Prokofiev's Precipitato in 4-5 weeks (very fast or me), this piece's accompaniment is so arbitrary, there simply are no "memory markers" - it's like driving a race course laid out in a parking lot - no visual references to set up your line since you can't see what corner you are in. 

Horowitz's Stars and Stripes is same problem - each pass is just a little different with an arbitrary variation. 

My solution to these problems, is to play them the same (or improvise if I was capable) and of course, NO repeats (especially S&S), I'm my own Flash Mob when I play and it's best to finish before they lose interest.

FYI:  Bach and Beethoven for me is precise since hey use the "best solution."  Prokofiev, ironically, is similar since there is only one solution to get the dissonance he wants.  Chopin is tough because every time he repeats a theme, he modifies it just a little - an improvisation - with is quite arbitrary with no "memory markers."

As an (empiricist) pianist/philosopher, I always analyze just what type of pianist the composer was.

That means:  what was the size (if a bronze mold exists) of his hand, and why did he distribute the notes between the hands, accordingly?  On point, Mendelsohn obviously had your traditionally European small hand (as I do).

Therefore, I proffer a suggestion, in order for you to learn and perform this piece.  Crawl inside his mind, and then address the purposive nature of his music.

Parenthetically, Mendelsohn was probably the first keyboard composer to feature (in a large-volume sense) the emphasis on the top melody note leading the way, with broken chords distributed between both hands constituting a harmonic accompaniment.

In terms of memorization, I always write above the line the theory chord symbols of each major chord.  Then, I familiarize myself with that modality when memorizing the piece.

As a reference point, the Op. 67 No.1, has approximately 48 chord changes in this two page piece.  If you cannot memorize all of these changes, you are in serious trouble when attempting to perform this work live.

I recommend that you learn, theoretically, this piece first.  Because Mendelsohn is broken chord harmony (very specific harmony) and then a leading melody.

And, in case you folks have forgotten, the man was not playing a modern (cast iron enforced) grand piano.  He had to make the most with what he had.

[mrcreosote]

First, I'm 63 been playing since 6 and was schooled to play with fingers.  (I have to laugh, I remember wanting to play certain areas with flat fingers and was severely reprimanded!)  Discovered rotation and arm weight on my own on the internet not even a year ago.

But my memory is by far my dominant limitation. 

I am always in trouble when I play anything live (memorization!) - in this particular piece, even knowing the chords, the accomp behaves like an improvisation.  In particular, phrase ends can 1, 2, or 3 note chords.  There are no clues why which was chosen - no way to understand or predict them - in other words, no way to memorize them through meaning.  So they become arbitrary and overwhelm the small "storage capacity" of my memory.  The biggest mnemonic for me is the feeling of playing them - like remembering a dance move.

For example, I just finished memorizing Prokofiev's Precipitato in 5 weeks which is probably the shortest time I've achieved ever.  But this Song, is an order or magnitude more difficult - in fact, so difficult, I've made no headway - not even the first half of the first page.  If I can memorize a line, the next day, nothing is retained.  The Prokofiev on the other hand, "sticks" like glue.

If I focus on this Song exclusively, I will be lucky to commit it in 2 months.