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Topic: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility (Read 2786 times)

mbpress01

PS Silver Member
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Posts: 2

Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

on: August 04, 2016, 12:42:21 PM

Hi all and thanks for this great site and for the folks who post here regularly. Similar story you have read many times as I played for 1 year a very long time ago and now at 51 am starting again and of course don't remember anything. After two months I am showing some progress (I have 2 lessons a week) and practice at least 1 hr every day (hopefully going to 2hrs).

The real question and of course I don't mind brutal honesty, is this an exercise in futility as I have no aspirations to be anything other than a decent intermediate piano player in 4 yrs focusing only on Baroque music (no real time for anything else). The ultimate goal would be able to play (sight reading of course) the Italian Concerto by Bach (first movement only).

Given all the comments here is this a realist goal or am I just wasting time and better to find something else to do in retirement as this is just not feasible given my advanced age.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

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bronnestam

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 716

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #1 on: August 04, 2016, 03:41:25 PM

Just go on and enjoy yourself. Let the road carry you wherever you like.

What you need to do is to get rid of all these "too old", "futility" yada yada yada BS. You also need to be patient - take one thing at a time, don't rush, but don't hold yourself back either. Of course you will be able to play the Italian Concerto in time. You just have to walk the walk. The main trick, you know, is to know this: you WILL be able to play it. If you cannot play it yet, it is because you have more to learn first. So, learn. Have fun. Trust in yourself. It is a myth that you "cannot" learn because you have reached a certain age, that is rubbish.

I started to play again at the age of 46, I am 50 now. Indeed I played more than one year in my youth, but I had to begin from the beginning again and it took me a year to get back to my former skill. Today I play way beyond that skill, so obviously I can still learn and develop despite my so called high age.

One thing that has helped me a lot is to socialize with and take lessons from the piano "elite". Go to master classes, listen to lectures, read literature, take courses when you can, just don't be afraid. You are a part of the same community as they are, you play on the same instrument as they do, and in fact your practice routines should be just about the same as theirs. What differs are the technical level of the pieces you work with, but so what? They have been beginners too. They are just further down the road.

And NEVER, ever diminish yourself, thinking you don't "belong there" because you are not good enough. Just get going!

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kuska

Jr. Member
Posts: 95

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #2 on: August 04, 2016, 04:38:33 PM

Quote from: bronnestam on August 04, 2016, 03:41:25 PM

One thing that has helped me a lot is to socialize with and take lessons from the piano "elite".

Well, that one could be the most tricky. At least it is for me. I guess only things I can do is to wait till December when I'll get extra money at work to pay for three month on Skype.

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dogperson

Sr. Member
Posts: 1559

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #3 on: August 04, 2016, 05:57:10 PM

Quote from: kuska on August 04, 2016, 04:38:33 PM

Well, that one could be the most tricky. At least it is for me. I guess only things I can do is to wait till December when I'll get extra money at work to pay for three month on Skype.

The vast majority of us, beginner or not, do not get the chance to socialize with or take direct lessons from the 'elite'. I do go to Adult Piano Camp every summer... but that is the only opportunity I have other than my weekly lessons.

Master class? None available in-person to me, but I find the Master classes online very helpful, as well as the tutorials from Graham Fitch, etc. The internet is a vast resource of good material.

My advice:
- Develop patience: learning the piano is not an overnight skill but a lifetime.
- Quit asking yourself: can I do it? how good am I? Just do it!
- Develop good practice habits both in terms of frequency and HOW you practice.
-Realize that you will hit plateaus where you feel like you are not improving. Keep going anyway-- it is not a brick wall but a plateau that will end and you will climb again. This was the hardest for me to recognize as I expected to have steady improvement... doesn't work that way.

Your goals are reasonable.... just travel down the road.. There are many that are older starters/re-starters than you.

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quantum

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 6260

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #4 on: August 05, 2016, 04:03:18 AM

Stop worrying about it and start doing something about it! Little steps in progress add up and over time will move you forward. If you persevere in making those little steps in progress, you may be surprised how far you get.

One needs to realize that struggle is a part of the learning process. Those who remain steadfast throughout struggles, and not give in to the easy route of calling it quits, will go far. It does not matter how old you are.

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ted

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Posts: 4012

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #5 on: August 05, 2016, 04:44:07 AM

I concur with the others, just do whatever you want to do, play whatever you want to play and learn as you go. I wouldn't bother with any "elite" though. In my experience, famous people tend to concentrate on themselves to the detriment of the subject matter, in this case music.

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kuska

Jr. Member
Posts: 95

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #6 on: August 05, 2016, 06:49:45 AM

I've just remembered an old story of mine. Hope it'd be inspiring. I've always hated singing. At the time I was finishing my high school we had entrance exams to universities, colleges, etc. Now it's easier for people as they don't need to pass extra entrance exams in most cases. To get to music conservatory you'd need to obtain music secondary school diploma and then pass your entrance. I didn' have the diploma (they don't need it now lol). So all I could do was to go to college and start music education. In fact, I wanted to play.

In fact, they mainly told me to sing and there was't that much of playing in comparison.

So, I hated it. My ear training teacher suggested me I was deaf and made me problems. My piano teachers kept telling me I have a very good ear. My second ear training teacher told me she knew I could write down all the intervals she played but I had problems with singing them and she couldn't get it.

Later when I stopped studying there I discovered it was rather a psychological issue. I could sing only when I felt at peace with myself and the world and I wasn't afraid to express myself.

Now I've only started my piano journey again and already written down a song for violin I wanted to buy initially with a whole book and saved $12 (as I've got some dissociative symptoms I haven' even listened to music that much in between - this doesn't let me to work efficiently)

So I guess no need to believe in everything people say. "You are too old and won't make progress" can be one of that bullshits.

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annie55

PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 1

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #7 on: August 05, 2016, 12:25:56 PM

I started from scratch a week before by 58th birthday. I was lucky in that I found a good teacher locally which was key but I've been consistent in my practising and each week can do a bit more than the week before.
I've been having lessons for nearly 3 years now and my aim is mainly to continue to improve so I can play pieces I want but I enjoy playing and it has changed how I listen to music too.
I wish I'd started earlier of course but this was the right time for me as I have the flexibility and drive to practice now and I'm hoping to spend a lot more time on my piano studies when I retire.
So, in response to the OP I certainly don't think 51 is too old to start (obviously!) and so long as you're enjoying it and feel you're making headway, no matter how slight at times, that's the main thing.

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kuska

Jr. Member
Posts: 95

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #8 on: August 05, 2016, 12:50:57 PM

Quote from: annie55 on August 05, 2016, 12:25:56 PM

I started from scratch a week before by 58th birthday. I was lucky in that I found a good teacher locally which was key but I've been consistent in my practising and each week can do a bit more than the week before.
I've been having lessons for nearly 3 years now and my aim is mainly to continue to improve so I can play pieces I want but I enjoy playing and it has changed how I listen to music too.
I wish I'd started earlier of course but this was the right time for me as I have the flexibility and drive to practice now and I'm hoping to spend a lot more time on my piano studies when I retire.
So, in response to the OP I certainly don't think 51 is too old to start (obviously!) and so long as you're enjoying it and feel you're making headway, no matter how slight at times, that's the main thing.

That's inspiring, thanks. I think the biggest problem in this issue is not "can I still improve" or "can I still learn" but our own expectations. If this is only about improvement then it should be obvious there's always room for improvement but at the same time not everyone will be champions. So if somebody wants to learn and be as good as ... (write here whatever you want) the the answers gets more complicated.

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jeffkonkol

PS Gold Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 76

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #9 on: August 05, 2016, 01:09:51 PM

the point of the journey is not to arrive.

Your studies will only be an exercise in futility if you apply a definite, and potentially unobtainable goal. Your goals seem reasonable. You certainly can continually improve, and I suspect you can achieve for more than you currently believe possible.

Keep studying. Enjoy it. Let that activity be a reward in and of itself, and it will pay dividends.

Gratz to you for having the courage to do something most talk themselves out of (by making the mistaken decision that it is too late to start)

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bernadette60614

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 541

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #10 on: August 05, 2016, 03:44:00 PM

I believe the lifespan of the average American is something around 80 years. Those years are going to pass whether we are learning a new skill or watching umpteen hours of TV and cat videos on YouTube.

I think whatever you invest time in is what you are going to develop. I don't know if I'm too old or not, but I do know that the time I invest in learning anything new is time better spent than watching even the cutest kittens on YouTube!

I have a friend who is a number of years older than I am to whom I look for inspiration. She earned her undergraduate degree at 48, her masters at 52, started a program which grew to a national presence at 60, lost her spouse at 64, began taking improv and acting classes at 65 and now has a career doing local theater and comedy improv. She's never been "too old" to learn...she just does it.

Learning is living, and while I don't want to sound all Oprah on this very dignified forum, once you stop learning, IMHO, you stop living.

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rmbarbosa

Sr. Member
Posts: 453

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #11 on: August 05, 2016, 06:22:55 PM

With time, of course you can.
It`s matter of do never say "if" but only say "when". And you have lessons, that`s a great advantage.

I dont know what your teacher thnks about methods of piano learning. But in the internet one may find an old but very effective method: A. Schmoll. It can be downloaded for free. Five books, each one with 30 little pieces of music, from de easiest to the intermediate or intermediate-advanced. It has not the classic technical exercises like Hanon. It teaches with real music fron the beggining. And it is so progressif that one doesnt feel any difficulty. In five months, you attain grade 7 at least... wich means you may play a lot of good Music.

Schmoll also wrote a book with 30 pieces, paralell with his method. Five pieces you may play during your leaning of the first book, five with the second and so on. It is also download for free.

As you are 50 years old you may feel the method very "naif". Schmoll wrote it for children. But it`s a very effective way to learn quickly and, along the 5 books, he also teaches some musical theory.

Here in piano forum there`s an old question about Hanon. There are members pro-Hanon and members anti-Hanon. Members pro-technical exercises and anti-technical exercises. With Schmoll, there are not pure technical exercises. There are pieces of music wich are also good exercises.

You may wish to have a look.

Best wishes

Rui

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debussychopin

Jr. Member
Posts: 80

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #12 on: August 18, 2016, 06:49:33 AM

You dont have to be elite nor accomplished to enjoy music and be inspiring to others.
Just having a passion and sincerely embarking on a journey one will encounter a lot of beauty and detail and lot of people you would have missed if you never took it bc you were just looking at solely a destination.

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L'Isle Joyeuse

toughbo

PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 111

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #13 on: August 18, 2016, 08:59:26 AM

Rui, could you provide links or opus numbers?
I found it unclear what you were referring to after looking through Schmoll's output on IMSLP

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timothy42b

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 3414

Re: Same Question - Too Old to Start and possible exercise in futility

Reply #14 on: August 18, 2016, 03:39:41 PM

You have modest and realistic goals. I see no reason whatsoever a 51 year old cannot accomplish them.

Now, if your goal were to become an elite virtuoso concert pianist, I'd say no. But a decent level of skill should be within your grasp.

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Tim

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