Rach Preludes Op.23 No.5 g minor

[jc]

How can I relax my arms and the upper part of my body when I am playing this piece?  I think I can just play it very 'loud' but not 'full' in tone quality.  I have the  same problem when I play this kind of chordal passages.  Do you have any suggestions?

[rachfan]

JC, the first thing to recognize is that Op.23,No. 5 is not forte throughout.  Most of page 1 is very quiet--a perfect time to relax.  On the last two measures of that page, be sure to use NO pedal.   Except for two brief accents on page 2 at ff, the rest of the page is either f or p--yet another place to relax.  Also realize that in the f section of that page, only the scalar octaves are loud (voicing tops with the 5th finger especially).  Play them legato using fingering 4-5-4-5 in the RH.  The staccato figures in between are no more than filler notes played mf, although not marked as such.  Why?  Because they have no melodic role whatsoever and are merely background.  

The middle section is totally lyrical.  The LH produces a quiet lake effect with its arpeggios. The RH is chords stressing the uppermost voice with the 5th finger.  Dynamics range from ppp to mf.  Nothing loud, super energetic, or exhausting there.  The real work is bringing out the lovely inner lines.

The last two pages are the most challenging, and the dynamic is mostly forte.  With fatigue setting in, its sometimes difficult to play those last five chords of the 2nd, 5th and 6th measures of the last page evenly in rhythm.  You need to watch that.  Finally, many fail to relax in the coda believing that the passage goes like a house afire.  It does not.  Put the metronome on in tempo and you'll be surprised that you might have been rushing it.  The note groupings in the RH of the coda are not at all what they appear to be in the writing.  In fact, you have to mentally think in the 3rd to the last measure that the last two 16ths in the RH are connected as a group to the first two 16ths in the 2nd measure to the end.  And in the middle of the second measure to the end, the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th sixteenth notes also are one group.  If you think of it that way, it will be more relaxing to play.  There is NO pedal in the coda.  

So paying strict attention to the dynamics in particular, keeping background notes relatively quiet, and keeping the tempo accurate throughout will work toward helping you maintain your stamina in this piece.

[jc]

Hi, RachFan, Thank you for your help!

[e60m5]

Rachfan gave some valuable advice for this piece. It's definitely not all loud and strong, but when it is, make sure the audience realises it...  

It's such a great piece. In the middle section, be absolutely sure to bring out the middle voice (the one that switches between the left and right hand the second time the theme is repeated); many pianists just skip over that middle voice, but when it is truly brought out with care, the effect is nothing short of sublime.

On a final quick note, recordings you may want to look for of this piece are in my opinion, that of the composer, and of Emil Gilels and Sviatoslav Richter. Gilels plays this piece like a powerhouse - and I love it... lol I always love Gilels' playing.

[MikeLauwrie]

There is pedal in the coda.

The best way to learn how to play something and to see how you like it played is to listen to recordings by several different pianists.

Listen to Howard Shelley (my favourite for the preludes but don't get his Rach 3), someone like Peter Katin or Ashkenazy, and of course Rachmaninoff himself.

This is a piece I know quite well as I'm playing it for a recital in March, when listening to 'the legends' playing stuff (like Rachmaninoff, Richter, etc) remember that althoug their playing is awesome, it is also dated. Indeed if they were playing now they wouldn't play it like they did then.

It's an awsome piece though, my favourite that I'm playing at the moment.


Sorry Rachfan, have to dissagreee with you on some points. But you're right about the dynamics - after all there is no loud without quiet.

[chopiabin]

For a fuller sound, make sure you are "digging into the keys" as my teacher says. You need to make sure you are pressing them all the way down and not just tapping or "biting" them in order to be fast. Sometimes I find that when I am playing a fast chordal piece, I start getting tense and hitting the keys with fingers that are too stiff. This stiffness produces that sharp, harsh sound. If you play with fingers that are resilient yet firm, you should see your tone improve considerably.

[Its_about_nothing]

The real work is bringing out the lovely inner lines.

I'm having some trouble with this. Any tips on how to do this?

And I do use the pedal in the middle section. Am I supposed to or not?

[chopiabin]

DEFINITELY!

[schnabels_grandson]

Yeah, I play the middle section once a day without pedal to ensure correct note playing.  It sounds horrible.  It can be easy to overdo the pedal, so be wary.  For the counter themes in the left hand I took them very slow and severely accented the notes in question.  There is probably a better method though.

[chopiabin]

Yeah, to get it perfectly legato, practice it without pedal, but when performing, get your pedal on all night long.

[eViLben]

if you want to listen to what i consider as the perfect version ever : Sviatoslav Richter!
i'm learning this piece right now, and i've got a fingering question : what fingering do you use for the 5 first octaves of the second page ? (Bb, C, D , Eb, D)
I personnally use 123 - 14 - 15 - 15 - 135 but it doesn't allow me to play it as fast as i wished ... :/ the ugly point is from D 15  to E 15 ...
Btw if you have a great lack of endurence this piece will hurt your arms, especially, as mentionned above, when playing the last two pages. I don't think the chords that are played after the main octaves have to be p. it must be mf at least, f for the main octaves and FF at the end of the crescendo. I also do think that you can use a little bit of pedale for this part, but lightly of course.


Ben