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Enter a World of Musical Sculptures

Music visualization, as a tool for multisensory learning, often occurs in pedagogical discussions. Piano Street got the chance to talk to audio visual artist Andy Fillebrown about his Musical Sculptures. Read more >>

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Question: ? How do you motivate a Gifted PIanist? (they don't want to practice) ?
motivation - 0 (0%)
how motivate - 1 (100%)
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Author Topic: $ How to get MOTIVATED / Motivating a Gifted Child $  (Read 683 times)
pianoplayerstar
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« on: August 31, 2016, 10:38:11 PM »

How do you motivate children whom you KNOW are gifted; they can sightread easily on the spot, but don't want to push themselves that extra umph to get their talent vroooming!

short of giving up; what have you done? use Lang Lang videos? or young Kissin biographies from BBC?  what if they're only interested in playing with toys and Legos?

Is this normal among those who are very talented and have that X factor in playing? 

(yes, it always seems to be this case where those you may feel don't have that 'touch' always wants to show their stuff... while those WITH that touch, NEVER want to showcase their skills.

argh!! frustration.
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bernadette60614
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2016, 05:13:59 PM »

I'm not a teacher, but a mother.  What motivates our son is having a choice.  He hated doing the Faber books, but when we found that he wanted to play cartoon themes, he was suddenly interested and self-motivated. 

What kind of music appeals to this child?  I think you can push a child towards something, or let them chose something and then the push comes from their own curiosity and desire.
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pianoplayerstar
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2016, 05:28:44 PM »

.. but i'm talking about the gifted child.. if you just give a child pieces he likes to play like cartoon pieces, this will never foster his gift.

... we have to dig and mine deeply in the sweat and toil to find that ruby and diamond..

TRANSLATION:  isn't there some initial NOT-SO-FUN-OR-MOTIVATIONAL cartoon pieces the child has to go through to pay his or her dues before they unlock their GIFTED BEAUTY? ... or do we just let them do what they want since after all, we are all americans and westerners (and easterners), and in america, europe, asia, even antarctica), we are a country and modern society of independence (or are we?) and choice (or are we?) .. "let the kid have fun".. let the kid be"


?no?
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themeandvariation
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2016, 05:41:28 PM »

New contest:
"Pay you dues vs. do as you want, like americans".

I am calling you out as a troll.  Have you done anything at all having to do with music?

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4'33"
pianoplayerstar
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2016, 05:46:33 PM »

the reason is, playing cartoon pieces are fun for 100% of kids;


but is that the BEST METHOD way of motivating youth?
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pjjslp
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2016, 05:52:40 PM »

I agree with dcstudio on the other identical thread. The internal motivation is part of the gift. Probably lots of kids out there who could be Olympic gymnasts or soccer stars or concert pianists with the right combination of ability, coaching, and drive. That drive seems to be what separates the truly gifted from the merely talented.
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pianoplayerstar
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2016, 06:37:41 PM »

so is drive/motivation a gift?

i recall kissin saying that everyday he'd come home and rush to the piano to play.

... now that's motivation.

plus, i recall him saying he never practiced scales.

wow.

CONCLUSION:  "THE WILL TO PRACTICE IS AN INBORN GIFT, AND IF YOUR STUDENT DOESN'T HAVE THIS SELF-MOTIVATION, YOU KNOW ALREADY THAT THIS KID IS NOT GOING TO BE YOUR NEXT YUJA WANG OR LANG LANG" [this will save a lot of time and heartaches of dashed hopes].

this actually sounds too crude,

... but IS THIS CONCLUSION TRUE?
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keypeg
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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2016, 07:44:49 PM »

What is your reason for asking this question?  What type of real situation are you trying to solve?
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bernadette60614
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2016, 08:01:02 PM »

I don't think you can force someone to be motivated.  That runs contrary to the nature of motivation which is inborn.

I begged my parents for a piano and spent 2 years earning straight A's to earn a piano (their condition).  I played for hours. Then, my mother decided to "motivate" me by forcing me to practice 3 to 4 hours after school and even more during summer vacation.

My motivation died by the time I hit college.

I sense you want this child to be motivated in a specific way. I would say let them enjoy lessons and playing....and the motivation will come knowing that piano is a sure source of enjoyment.
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adodd81802
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2016, 11:49:56 PM »

There is no method, there is no absolute way of achieving greatness at anything, and the more we try do to that, or look for it, the further away we become of achieving it.

Saying somebody SHOULD practice scales, or do this or do that, it starts causing constraints, and the narrow minded look to it as an easy solution, like oh this guy did Hanon 4 hours a day, or this guy warmed up with 3 hours of scales, so I can do that and I will be as good...

no... no .. no! The fact is, true obsession is what makes you become great. correctly practicing anything for hours on end, constantly reviewing and revising what you are learning, and how you are improving, but not even really thinking about the time you are investing.

Gifted is a term we give to somebody who just happens to be able to get something right in the initial stages where others fail, it does not really mean anything.

Some people happen to just be better at learning, and could apply their same mindset to any task aside from learning the piano. There may be patterns or similarities, stereotypes, but there are no rules. The same person that is 'gifted' at sight reading, may be terrible at aural, the same person that is 'gifted' at Chopin, may be terrible at Mozart.

RE Motivation

Motivation cannot be taught. It comes in two varieties - self motivation and forced 'motivation'.

Many will know the 2nd idea is well used in Asian countries, but I'm not so convinced that this is the right way.

Anybody that claims to be obsessed with something without results, simply are not obsessed. If you want to be great at something, you can be if you strive to be right.
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dogperson
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2016, 12:17:15 AM »

What is your reason for asking this question?  What type of real situation are you trying to solve?

I think you can draw your own conclusion to what type of 'real situation' is being referenced by reviewing the threads started by PianoPlayerStar:

Composing:  old school or new school
How do you motivate a child?
How do you sightread and catch everything?
How do you compose?  Play first or write first?
Jazz vs Classical theory:  which one wins?
How to learn circle of fifths?
How do you memorize with zero errors?   We have a performance
Private lessons vs. self-study: pros and cons
I just want my kid to be happy
P22 for colleges?
Which model of Steinway?
Is the word bar and measure the same thing?   What happens with an accidental?
Art of piano is ARTIST or technical?
Looking for learning syllabus and practice schedules
Liszt vs Dante symphony poll
Looking for technique teacher in Seattle
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keypeg
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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2016, 01:57:29 AM »

I think you can draw your own conclusion to what type of 'real situation' is being referenced by reviewing the threads started by PianoPlayerStar:
(followed by list of titles)
I've seen quite a few of those thread titles and read the opening post of a number of them.  I find them confusing as well. Somebody who is thinking about starting to study piano?  Something else?
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dogperson
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2016, 02:00:07 AM »

I've seen quite a few of those thread titles and read the opening post of a number of them.  I find them confusing as well. Somebody who is thinking about starting to study piano?  Something else?

Someone who sits around thinking of as many theoretical questions as possible... maybe none of them real-life situations. 
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pianoplayerstar
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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2016, 11:06:33 PM »

"bernadette" spoke quite with tact

thanks

I believe however the word forced motivation really bugs some people who have never gone to stardom

to those actual stars who are stars they need not tell their stories if they don't want to

but since they made it to so called fame "The Bitterness Of The Past Has Been Washed Away By The Salve And Sweetness Of The Present Harvest Of Stardom Comfort And Financial Rewards"

however one is motivated ... motivation whether forced or not, MUST be present .. it's just a pity when parents are HARSH, the very thing that parents really have to "check" before they continue this kind of so-called forced motivation to which "Bernadette" refers
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pianoplunker
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2016, 11:57:32 PM »

How do you motivate children whom you KNOW are gifted; they can sightread easily on the spot, but don't want to push themselves that extra umph to get their talent vroooming!

argh!! frustration.


I noticed you use the $ to represent motivation. Nobody wants to pay $ to hear an unmotivated performance for sure, but some people are perfectly happy just sight reading without thinking about $ so they dont care to push for something they dont care about.  It is ok not to want to even perform at all.   It would be fun to just open up books and play away the day
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pjjslp
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« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2016, 02:15:49 PM »


but since they made it to so called fame the bitterness of the past has been washed away by the salve and sweetness of the present harvest of stardom comfort and financial rewards...


You think stardom and financial rewards wash away the past? Might want to run that by the many child TV and movie stars who later ended up addicted to drugs, etc.

I find your posts to be very confusing. I also think you have in your mind a "correct" answer to your convoluted "questions" and are just waiting for someone to write what you were already thinking. Why not simply post your theories rather than posing confusing pseudo-questions?
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dcstudio
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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2016, 03:27:48 PM »

You lived in someone's musical shadow most of your life.  You believed that you would never be as good as he was.  You took lessons or tried to play but you gave up pretty quickly.  it's likely that you now blame your parents for letting you quit. This person who played spoke words like "polyrhthm" and "circle of fifths" and you formulated your own definitions for these terms that even now you don't understand. Your misuse of musical terminology adds to the confusion in your posts. It also lets the forum know that you don't have a clue a as to what you are saying.  
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pianoplayerstar
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« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2016, 03:34:09 PM »

again, Motivation then is:

INBORN - nothing one can really do about this.

...................   AND ..............

LEARNED - create an environment for the child to ENJOY the music.. otherwise, the parent will try and try and try only to realize that she/he is only trying to fill the shoes of some fantasy.

... every kid is different - TRUE.
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dogperson
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« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2016, 03:46:38 PM »

PianoPlayStar refuses to answer any questions about who he/she is and why these questions are being asked. My vote:  a very bored youngish student that knows just enough to throw out convoluted questions on every off-the-cuff topic imaginable.

These topics range from memorizing for a performance, to learning the circle of fifths, to the meaning of bar/measure, needing a practice schedule and the process of composing.  There cannot be this spectrum of questions that are REAL from any one person.


Does he have a gifted child?  Very, very, doubtful.  Is he an unmotivated youngish student who would rather slam the forum with convoluted topics rather than practice?   My vote is likely.  The question is whether to keep this nonsense going in the hopes of helping someone else.... or NOT.


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dcstudio
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« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2016, 04:27:28 PM »

PianoPlayStar refuses to answer any questions about who he/she is and why these questions are being asked. My vote:  a very bored youngish student that knows just enough to throw out convoluted questions on every off-the-cuff topic imaginable.

These topics range from memorizing for a performance, to learning the circle of fifths, to the meaning of bar/measure, needing a practice schedule and the process of composing.  There cannot be this spectrum of questions that are REAL from any one person.


Does he have a gifted child?  Very, very, doubtful.  Is he an unmotivated youngish student who would rather slam the forum with convoluted topics rather than practice?   My vote is likely.  The question is whether to keep this nonsense going in the hopes of helping someone else.... or NOT.




It's always the "magical" circle of fifths that betrays them.  They present it like it is something so difficult to understand when in reality it is so rudimentary.  Theory 101. It just sounds advanced.  

I see an older student who is filled with regret and believes he could have been Lang Lang if only he had the right teacher.  He is seeking validation of his musical knowledge like so many others we have seen. He has read a bit and drops names but he cannot play and that's what he wants more than anything. He fully believes that to be impossible though...so he is compensating for that here.

Also sprach  dcstudio!
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bernadette60614
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« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2016, 04:32:34 PM »

Kissin grew up in a very musical household...a mother who was a piano teacher, a sister, whom from what I've heard from my former teacher, who was Russian, was being groomed to be a concert pianist.

My teacher's speculation was that Kissin's sister had a nervous breakdown from all the pressure placed on her by her mother.

When Kissin was born, he was exposed to music even in the crib.  He speaks of hearing his sister practicing, observing her practice and then playing what he had heard her practice on the keyboard himself.

The family at some point hired a piano teacher.

I'm to add all this up and speculate that Kissin's parents learned something the first time round.  You can't force a child to love the hard work that goes into becoming a prodigy without doing damage to the child.  With Kissin, they suffused the environment with music, they let him come to the piano of his own accord, and they did not engage the mother in teaching, but engaged a separate teacher (whom Kissin appeared to view as a beloved figure in his life.)

So, while I don't know if OP is a young person who questions being allowed to give up piano, a parent who wants to create a prodigy using a preconceived approach, or a teacher who is trying to receive additional input.

As an adult, who will never achieve fame or fortune through the piano, I would say that this discussion has caused me to think about how to motivate myself during those times when I don't naturally feel that drive.  And, the answer comes down to love (I know....groan!). You love people and activities even if they are difficult or unrewarding, because you have an emotional bond that runs to your core.

Okay, off the rails now....

Have a great Labor Day everyone!
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pianoplayerstar
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« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2016, 05:01:16 PM »

i had no idea Kissin had his way paved by his sister. very interesting.

... this is why motivating youth is such a delicate balance.. you don't want to burn any bridges.

... if you do, you just get and develop embittered personalities, rather than those who love music.

Encouragement and Building others up is always the BEST method to Developing POSTIVE VALUE ADDED TO OTHERS AND MOST IMPORTANTLY TO ONES OWN LIFE, TOO.
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classicalinquisition
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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2016, 03:42:58 PM »

you can motivate your child by telling him to practice. lol. seriously, motivation comes later, but you must have him or her practice first
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