"I JUST WANT MY KID TO BE HAPPY!" : Do you buy that? or is this a cover up?

[pianoplayerstar]

What do you think about those who say this?

I buy it.  I"m all up for it.

.. however, for the tiger mom (and dad/uncle).. this is NOT THE INITIAL SHORT-TERM GOAL for any teacher or even coach.

I keep coming back to Lang Lang's story.. I don't think his dad ONLY WANTED HIS SON to be happy.. in fact, that was probably out of the question in the NEAR/SHORT TERM.. more importantly, it was LANG LANG'S FATHER who saw a gift/talent and DROVE IT HOME, STRONG AND FORCEFULLY REGARDLESS OF LANG LANG'S INITIAL SHORT-TERM COMFORT OR HAPPINES.... I believe his dad was looking long-term for LANG LANG'S HAPPINESS.

... so whenever I see in the world of music (or even in sports), where their parents say "i just want my kid to be happy".. i think this is COMPLETELY LEGITIMATE, but it leaves out a very very important ponit to achieve that COMFORT, SECURITY, or HAPPINESS

sweat, tears, and complete devotion to a craft.

AND HOW IS A 'HAPPY THING' TO SIT IN FRONT OF A PIANO BENCH FOR 6-8 HRS /DAY ONLY TO REALIZE THAT SOMETIMES YOU GOTTA GO TO THE BATHROOM BECAUSE YOU DEVELOPED SOME KIND OF HEMORRHOIDS ?  THAT'S NOT NICE.. BUT SOMETIMES, THE WILL TO SUCCESS DOES NOT MAKE IT FUN (INITIALLY AND AT THE BEGINNING).

.. I remember seeing a bio on a russian pianist where she said she and her father had some very very tough head-butting times, but her father really brought her to the forefront of piano success.

"I just want my kid to be happy" is not always the lackadaisical, polly-anna-esque comment we all think it is..

--- it's actually a transaltion for "ROAR!MEOW! I'M ACTUALLY THE TIGER MOM/DAD, BUT I DON'T WANT TO ADMIT IT, AND YES, YES, YES! I DO WANT MY KID TO BE THE BEST AND THE #1 !!! ROAR! MEOW!"

[pjjslp]

Huh? I have no idea what you are asking.

[ale_ius]

Your writing is erratic and so convoluted it comes across as lunatic rant/gibberish.
I am with above you are spamming the boards with nonsensical premises to abstract/subjective questions/content and follow ups add little int he way of clarification, substantiation of points, or logical counter arguments. 

[visitor]

[perfect_pitch]

Your writing is erratic and so convoluted it comes across as lunatic rant/gibberish.
I am with above you are spamming the boards with nonsensical premises to abstract/subjective questions/content and follow ups add little int he way of clarification, substantiation of points, or logical counter arguments. 

[lostinidlewonder]

I think your thread title poses the only question I can see here. When I hear a parent say this I am usually filled with dread because it has almost always to do with the lack of practice the student does on their own. Some parents don't believe in pushing their children and helping them learn about disciplined work, some try but give up because of how much resistance their kids might put up. I think all kids who grow up in western society need to learn about what it means to work hard and give it their best, as well of course as have a happy and free childhood!

[outin]

I think all kids who grow up in western society need to learn about what it means to work hard and give it their best....

I personally think it's generally much more useful in the modern times to learn how to work smart and as little as possible

[lostinidlewonder]

I personally think it's generally much more useful in the modern times to learn how to work smart and as little as possible

I like the saying "Work hard, play hard". Many western kids have no idea how hard life really is, they live in luxury with little struggle, it's certainly not good for their character building.

[quantum]

I personally think it's generally much more useful in the modern times to learn how to work smart and as little as possible

I like the saying "Work hard, play hard". Many western kids have no idea how hard life really is, they live in luxury with little struggle, it's certainly not good for their character building.

From the above I would extend the idea to: in times of challenge and when facing hurdles, work smart, play hard.  

IMO it is more about forming a mindset that can cope with challenges, rather than thinking hard work will get you through challenges.  I think that one should aim for a mindset that searches for the best solution, rather than using the tried and true path to just work hard until the task is completed without ever questioning the effectiveness of one's solution to the task.  

[lostinidlewonder]

Work hard and smart

[georgey]

I think the OP wants her son to be another Lang Lang, but she is concerned about the possible development of hemorrhoids or other problems.  I would say:  “Everything in moderation.” 

[pianoplayerstar]

.. i recall Perlmand (Itzak) said something to the effect of if you let the music come in slowly, then it will be more difficult to leave your head ---> i've pretty much had this philosophy, too

meaning:  don't try to figure out the sightreading and all so quickly or feel inferior if you don't get it at 1st, because the sometimes/often, the slower you learn it, the longer it stays with you. FIFO v. LILO [not "LIFO"} (for those MBA grads.. you know what I mean here)

Now, what you are saying has definite merit;  hardship fosters motivation; poverty fosters motivation --- not always, but to those who survive it (like Lang Lang), they rocket up to stardom.... and in the west, it's possible that kids often (not always) are brought up in a complacent, comfortable situation... too much pleasure and comfort will not breed motivation.

[dogperson]

Where do you get the idea that Lang Lang's father wanted him to 'be happy in the long run'?  If you watch the documentaries about Lang Lang's life, and his comments on his relationship with his father, I am not finding the suggestion that his father wanted his eventual 'happiness'.  He wanted Lang Lang's eventual stardom from the documentaries.
- His father told him if he did not get into conservatory, he might as well commit suicide.
- Lang Lang said of his life and eventual success that he would not have been successful 'it would have been a life wasted'.
- Although there was some reconciliation, didn't this part of controlling behavior continue? 

Sorry, I'm not seeing in this his father wanted his happiness...  unless you define happiness as making money as the only child of a family.

[bernadette60614]

Not every child who is bludgeoned (figuratively speaking) into practicing hour and hour each day is going to be Lang Lang....but I bet a lot of kids who could have enjoyed playing piano give it up as soon as they can.

For some kids, music is life (or tennis or golf or art), for other kids, music (art, golf, tennis) is a part of life.  I think that there are fewer of the former than teachers and parents think but in the pursuit of that superstar pianist, tennis player, golf prodigy, we suck the joy out of learning for many, many, many other kids.

[georgey]

.. i recall Perlmand (Itzak) said something to the effect of if you let the music come in slowly, then it will be more difficult to leave your head ---> i've pretty much had this philosophy, too

meaning:  don't try to figure out the sightreading and all so quickly or feel inferior if you don't get it at 1st, because the sometimes/often, the slower you learn it, the longer it stays with you. FIFO v. LILO [not "LIFO"} (for those MBA grads.. you know what I mean here)

Now, what you are saying has definite merit;  hardship fosters motivation; poverty fosters motivation --- not always, but to those who survive it (like Lang Lang), they rocket up to stardom.... and in the west, it's possible that kids often (not always) are brought up in a complacent, comfortable situation... too much pleasure and comfort will not breed motivation.

I actually use the LIFO accounting method because it fits my investing style.  It motivates me to buy low and sell high.  I guess fear of poverty is my motivation in this case, if I am being asked to choose from your list of motivators. 

[georgey]

My actuarial background may help here.  This is an oversimplification designed for ease of understanding.

A person’s happiness score ranges from 0 (extremely unhappy) to 100 (extremely happy).  Let’s say the probability of you son being another Lang Lang is 0.01% if you push him to be Lang Lang.  Let us also say that you son’s happiness score will be a 30 (thirty)  if he does not become Lang Lang because of disappointment and not being a well-rounded person and not having other interests, but his happiness score will be a 100 if he becomes Lang Lang.

His projected happiness score on an expected value bases in this scenario is (if my math is correct):

99.99% * 30 + 0.01% * 100 = 30.007 – not very happy.

Now let’s say you bring him up to be a well-rounded person and to have many interests including piano.  His probability of being another Lang Lang will drop from 0.01% to 0.00001%, but he will have a happiness score of 80 if he does not become Lang Lang.

His projected happiness score on an expected value bases in this new scenario is (if my math is correct):

99.99999% * 80 + 0.00001% * 100 = 80.000002 – pretty happy.

[bernadette60614]

There is actually a body of psychological literature about suicide among Asian American children.  Not saying that this is limited to Asian American children.

Suicide rates of Asian American students at M.I.T., for example, is 4x the rate of suicide among other groups of students.

Not every child is motivated by pressure....

[outin]

Not every child is motivated by pressure....

As someone said in another thread there's two kind of pressure: Something you build inside when you think something is important or if you want something enough. Then there's the other kind, imposed on you by others.

Never did the latter motivate me, quite the contrary, it made be even firmer in my decision to NOT work hard. And for some reason I never felt any need for approval from adults or peers, neither did their critisism affect me deeply. Instead of letting them get to me I learned to cheat quite early to get out of trouble. Basically I was always determined to live my life the way I see fit and so far I haven't had regrets...

[hfmadopter]

I think the parent should go become Lang Lang. Often parents put "their own goals" on the kid.

[pianoplayerstar]

first of all cheating never is the best path

guilt sets in and later guilt is coated with apathy and then the point of no return

this is called willful rebellion

don't knowingly cheat- that'd be my suggestion.

next, actuarial analysis may be quite correct but only after the fact .. the law of probability is only correct after the fact.. before the fact it is 100.000% inaccurate and "unlikely"

if a planes wings chip and and hit a whale in the sea, the probability that it'd do that is and was 100%.

.. as to Lang Langs dad.. anyone who says his dad never wanted his son to be happy, may not know what it's like to be a parent... every parent knows they want only the best for their kid and for them to be happy... why not?!

[georgey]

next, actuarial analysis may be quite correct but only after the fact .. the law of probability is only correct after the fact.. before the fact it is 100.000% inaccurate and "unlikely"

if a planes wings chip and and hit a whale in the sea, the probability that it'd do that is and was 100%.

Not sure this will help you or your son at piano, but it may help with the concept of probability.  I like talking math stuff.

Definition:  Probability is the measure of the likelihood that a FUTURE event will occur.  Example: BEFORE a fair coin is flipped, the probability that the coin will be heads after flipping is 50%.

Let’s look at your sentences: “the law of probability is only correct after the fact.. before the fact it is “100.000% inaccurate and "unlikely".  if a planes wings chip and and hit a whale in the sea, the probability that it'd do that is and was 100%."

I’m not sure what this means.  So I have a fair coin and ask you:“What is the probability the coin will come up heads when I flip it?”  You say: “Flip it and I will tell you afterwards.”  I say:  “What is the probability of heads BEFORE I flip the coin?”  You again say: “Flip it and I will tell you afterwards.” So to keep things moving I flip the coin and it comes up tails.  You then say ”The probability of heads is zero and the probability of tails IS AND WAS 100%.”

Seeing perhaps an opportunity to make some money from you based on faulty understanding of probabilities, I pull out a fair 6 sided die and ask “What is the probability that a 6 will be rolled?”  You then say “Roll it and I will tell you afterwards.”  I say: “Before I roll it I will bet you $10 even money that it will not come up a 6.”  Will you take this bet?  Please explain!  

("I don't gamble" might be your explantion )

[outin]

first of all cheating never is the best path

guilt sets in and later guilt is coated with apathy and then the point of no return

Cheating is relative. There's no reason to feel guilty if you do it to avoid doing something useless. And not everyone has the ability/tendency to feel guilty.