How do I overcome shyness and play louder?

[richardparkok]

This is a rather embarrassing forum post I made as a more foolish youngster. For that warranting reason, I am changing the posts I made on this particular post.

[iansinclair]

It is hard for a shy person to play loud.  I know.  Been there, done that...

One of the things which worked for me to help overcome that is to try and set up a practice situation where you don't have to worry about being too loud -- or even heard.  It may mean a different location.  It may mean a different time of day.  It could possibly mean using a good digital piano and earphones -- an option which wasn't available when I started playing.

I studied organ in college -- and there is no known way to play an organ softly on many passages!  But playing very late at night worked for me; playing very early in the morning worked for my sister.

Also, remember that your first and most important audience is yourself.

After a while, you may discover -- probably will discover -- somewhat to your dismay that no one is really paying any attention to who is practicing, never mind how loud!  That may be a little dismaying, as I say, because many shy people (I'm one) do want people to notice them -- sort of.  But when you do discover that, then you will find that you are less likely to be inhibited about really playing out.

And... patience!

[richardparkok]

OP

[ted]

I have always been very uncomforable playing in front of people, and even now, at sixty-nine, I abhor performance for strangers. Friends are not quite as bad but the inhibition is still there. Oddly enough, I delight in recording, no issues there at all. The funny thing is that none of this applies to improvisation; once I start that all my surroundings fade away and the opinions of listeners are irrelevant. I have no idea why this should be the case, but if it happens with me maybe it would with you too.

Reading your post, I sense that something isn't quite right in the matter of communication between you and your teacher, and that you see her as some sort of awed, authoritarian figure instead of a trusted friend and guide. "Mercy, mistress, mercy !" Have you had a good talk to her about it ? Perhaps she sees it, wrongly but sincerely, as a purely musical issue when it isn't musical at all but interpersonal.

If you still have trouble playing loudly when you know for certain nobody can hear you, then I cannot advise you on that one.

[brogers70]

Maybe find a way to make it fun to play loud. Listen to some loud pieces; watch youtube videos by pianists who have a good time throwing themselves at the piano

Here's one random example 

There are plenty of others

Go to concerts where such things are played.

Doesn't it look like fun to throw yourself into the music that way? Ask your teacher for pieces that demand a big sound and try to have fun with them.

I'm also working on trying to loosen up and "commit" to the sound, and seeing performances where someone else does it is inspiring.

[chechig]

It may be a problem with how you use the weith of you body. You knwo that you dont play only with your fingers, but with arms, shoulders and rest of the body. It happened to me when I started lessons in a grand piano, wich has nothing to do with my digital Kawai. One of the tips my teacher told me, was to practice as if my fingers were hammers, liftting them quite high, I dont know how to explain it. It's working for me. Then, once you learn the piece that way, you have to get rid of the excess of weith. Above all, dont think it has no solution, I'm the probe, and I'm only an intermediate student

[quantum]

Playing loud convincingly is largely a technical skill that needs to be learned.  If you have only been playing a few months, don't be too harsh on yourself as it takes time to learn.  Your teacher should be able to show you the correct techniques to play loud. 

However, from what you have written it seems this is less of a technical issue, and more one of the lesson environment and communication between your teacher.  Perhaps you can try to explain to your teacher that at this point in time there are so many details that she is demanding of you that it is overwhelming.  Could you break down problems in smaller chunks in lessons, and say focus on only loud playing without having to worry about too many of the other details. 

Do you have access to a piano where you can play loud without any feelings of inhibition? It could even be a digital piano with headphones. 


I play organ, and there are many cases when preparing a piece you need to practice loud in the presence of other people.  It can feel disconcerting that others are in the space while you are trying to practice and work out passages, but in many cases these people are just doing their jobs (like the musician is by practicing) and really don't mind the loud sounds or the wrong notes.  Some people can even be oblivious to the fact there is a musician practicing in the same room they occupy. 

[bronnestam]

richardparkok, I wrote you a personal message.

[timothy42b]

Maybe if you wore earplugs, you'd be forced to play louder just so you could hear yourself, and in time you'd get used to it. 

[richardparkok]

OP

[quantum]

If you believe it is an issue with how you play, it is something that should be brought up with your teacher.  Don't be afraid to ask your teacher questions, and to elaborate if you don't fully understand the concepts.   If your teacher is asking you to do something but you don't how how, ask your teacher to show you how. 

[keypeg]

An anecdote. Years ago when I was studying another instrument, I tended to be "deferential".  One day my teacher said something that made me feel angry for some reason, and I was in a real snit. I sort of tuned him out, like turning my back on him without actually doing so, and just played how I felt like playing, for myself.  When I was done, he was ever so pleased at how well and expressively I had played.     I did actually learn something from that experience.  We have to stay aware of our teachers, since they're giving us instructions, so it's not like playing alone in your own room. But while actually playing, you need to sort of tune out the teacher - that's what I learned that day.

[quantum]

An anecdote to the above anecdote. 

One of my university teachers frequently told her students: you do not have to do anything I tell you, as long as you do something.  The message being, that the point of the critique was to engage the student in thought and not just to follow the teachers instructions verbatim.  One did not have to agree with the teacher, but the fact that the teacher made a comment might mean something in the music was not working right and the student should consider their options. 

[louispodesta]

I am a introvert that is having many problems playing, specifically dynamically.
I have a extremely talented piano teacher who actually even started teaching first in our state. ( not going to be very specific. duh why give off personal info..) She's very old but still has the ability to scare your guts off. Anyway, she always, always, always is disappointed because I do not play loud enough. Quote, " Why do you not play loud? If you were to go to a concert the judges will score you badly!" She would make gestures with her hands, saying "You don't play loud enough, point off. That note is supposed to be legato, point off," and so forth. She even sees that I'm a introvert and she tries to explain things not too rough on me because she clearly knows i'm very sensitive and mindful of others - a bit too much- and other thing, my teacher is a very strict easily frustrated teacher!!!!!
When I try to play loud my muscles first off, tense up everywhere and I make a BUNCH of mistakes, enough to build Trump's wall(don't get heated just  exaggerating)

I guess I really can't help it. So basically, I got two questions.
1. How to express music better - as saying, how to stop being so freakin' shy!
2. How to play louder.
You can choose to answer either but please be logical and mindful, and do your best!
If you decide to try to help me with the first question, I will have to ask you to be very empathetic and do your best. It will be very hard to stop my introverted nature as it is deeply rooted. In fact, when I go to my piano teacher's house( She teaches students at her house, with pianos in every room for practice ), anyway, when I go to her house and go into a room to play, I literally worry 'am I playing too loud? maybe the other students are bothered. okay i'll play quieter'
so yeah, just heads up.
Thanks for reading and hopefully you'll reply, or you're looking for an answer too.

She's (supposed to be "she is") very old.  Please give her age because it may make a difference.  My late piano teacher, Robert Weaver, lost most of the hearing in one ear due to a reaction to Streptomycin.

It took me years to discover why he kept insisting on a very big sound.  That is why I need to know just how old your teacher is, with all due respect to this person who you obviously have great fondness for.

[dogperson]

She's (supposed to be "she is") very old.  Please give her age because it may make a difference.  My late piano teacher, Robert Weaver, lost most of the hearing in one ear due to a reaction to Streptomycin.

It took me years to discover why he kept insisting on a very big sound.  That is why I need to know just how old your teacher is, with all due respect to this person who you obviously have great fondness for.

Per an earlier post by the OP on this thread, he cannot play loud at home alone.   

[louispodesta]

Per an earlier post by the OP on this thread, he cannot play loud at home alone.   

My teacher controlled my entire musical life, and if that has never happened to you, then you are fortunately in the minority.  And, (with all due respect), you have obviously never regularly perused this website, when the words "my teacher" have been used.

That means he is being controlled by his piano teacher (like most students), and it also means that if she is not hearing impaired (at her age?), then that is somewhat of a medical miracle.

[richardparkok]

OP

[hfmadopter]

This has nothing to do with a teacher thing or an audience thing, even though those two things could possibly help in some way with your situation. They can influence you and that is probably what this teacher is trying to do, draw you out .  You, OP, need to get yourself into a thought pattern where "you" want to hear your own music and "you" want to hear "you" playing the dynamics of that music. Music has a presence and resonance about it, almost as an entity , in fact you need to feed on hearing it. And delivering your representation of that comes out of your soul not your mind. IE the presence of the music comes out of your inner you, it needs to well up and build from inside of you and you need to get yourself into a position where you desire to hear that from your instrument. Because what you are hearing is a perfect reflection of yourself. You aren't delivering it to your audience or your teacher but to yourself, to your very spirit and thus ( in my case anyway) to your God as well, since those two things are as one or at least connected.. When that happens you find that you must ( by desire) play dynamically, be that very soft or loud. And at that point it is not the audience that will bother you but control over your instrument or an instrument that won't respond to your control in the way you want it to or the other way around where you hit on an instrument that has endless response to your control etc. etc. Absolutely nothing to do with an audience, though as I said in the beginning , it helps to know they are willing. I say all of that because your problem is not just in front of people but even alone by yourself.  But the things I said also are the great inner building blocks of presenting musical music. Indeed there is a difference between "playing the piano" and making music with your piano, and that difference comes from your core being. If you can not over come being able to play dynamically and loud when loud is required you can not play musically. You might play a piano but it is not music yet.

Also, playing loud is relative to playing soft/quietly. Both you practice by delivering music from your core and that dynamic between soft and loud all starts from how soft soft really is in the first place.

One of the worst things that can happen with a student is a digital piano where they turned the volume down so low you can barely hear it yourself. First of all the true tonality won't and can  not come through. It should be left at a normal level and then you learn to play softly when soft is needed. My grand Daughter would do that, I said " what are you doing, you can not deliver the presence of the music that way". Music is a sound wave scenerio and it wants to  fill your room, the universe. You sound a note on your piano and that sound wave carries on out to Mars, just as a stone dropped into a calm pond sends a wave across the pond eventually reaching the other side. Let Mars and beyond hear what you have to offer then.. Play for yourself knowing every sound you make is an eternal wave carrying on out into the universe and your human audience disappears as unimportant.

[tinyhands]

I have been told the same by my teacher, like you I am quite self conscious ( I worry what people think a lot and don't like that my neighbours can hear me practice as I live in an apartment. when I was getting my piano delivered one commented ' you won't be playing that thing at all hours will you..?' 🙄)
I also think part of my problem comes from when I a learned as a child my sisters would stay 'stop showing off..' Or 'why are you acting like that.?'  If I tried to be put lots of expression into my playing. however as an adult they have confessed that they were jealous that I could play so would put me down and tease me...anyway hindsight is a great thing but I suppose the insecurity from the teasing is still there now I'm a 40 year old returner. ... and when I started back I was quite reserved and insecure
My teacher has been brilliant though ..she says it's about confidence..and constantly gets me to play louder...One lesson we just banged on the keys..dropping my hands from a height..to get used to making 'ugly' sounds...'bash the piano about a bit and take control of it' she says also she says 'fake it till you make it' and talked about taking on a character to get into the piece...also we have started learning pieces that are a bit simpler but full of expression.  She often says if the parts were voices who would they be? A fat old man singing bass..or a Cheeky young man...all this has helped enormously for me to start 'acting' more and I find when I get into the character, I play more confidently and strongly therefore the forte starts to happen.   As my teacher says when you are playing you have to project to the back of the room and you need strength in your playing..otherwise the sound is thin and unsteady.  I am getting there slowly but have come on a lot. Anyway maybe you could try similar techniques? .  I think so much of it is about insecurities and having confidence and believing you are good enough to play.  I have found as an adult the piano is like therapy for me, I certainly think being so exposed and vulnerable at times can show up your insecurities.

[bernadette60614]

Something else I thought of:

When we play, we are instruments for the beauty and the emotion of the composition.  We are "speaking" for the composer. 

Currently, I am working on pieces by Bach, Bartok and Beethoven.  When I play, I'm not thinking about me, I'm thinking about how the music can sing through me.

I wouldn't want this widely known, but when I play Beethoven, before I begin I think about some of the great legends surrounding him...his passion, his rebellion, the depth of the tragedy in his life.  It gets me out of the "me" frame of mind and into what I imagine would be his frame of mind during the composition of the piece.

Finally, with age comes wrinkles,decline in some stamina and never quite remembering where the car keys are...but with it, as well, comes a feeling that you (the general you) has something of value to say.  For me, this has come with age and maturity, but this is also a belief you can adopt at any age.  Say it..cause you have something value to say.  Let the piano be your voice.

[avanchnzel]

Hiya, I'm an introvert and I know introverts hate hearing this but I'm going to say it: don't be shy, come out more. I hate hearing that too, but forcing myself to do that has always been my method to playing louder and bolder. I've always been a person of very few words, but I learn to speak with my instrument.

[richardparkok]

OP

[brogers70]

My teacher had to rework my technique after I had spent 10 years trying to learn on my own. I was playing fairly advanced pieces but with an ugly sound and lots of mistakes and total collapse in front of an audience. All due to a lot of tension.

The first thing she had me do was practice nothing but arm drops. That is, lifting my arm (using the shoulder, not the elbow) and letting the hand (with one finger deployed) fall onto a single note, with complete relaxation of the arm and wrist. I did that for 20 minutes a day for a week or two, until she was happy that I could do it with no tension. Then she had me do wrist drops into a two note slur, say C to B, falling on C as before and the pushing the hand forward gently to play the B and lifting away smoothly. You really need someone to demonstrate this to you; I'm sure your teacher could do that.

Once I was completely relaxed on those exercises. She had me do scales very slowly and had me stop in random notes in the scale to completely relax my arms and wrists. After she was happy with that, she gave me a very simple Haydn slow movement (I'd been playing the Schubert Impromptus, Preludes and Fugues from WTC before), and told me to relax on every chord. It took a month or two to get to this point, but even my non-musician wife noticed how much better the sound was.

After that, about 90% of the tension that had been crippling me was gone, and we went back to working on etudes and repertoire. To help with the remaining 10% there were a couple more suggestions. First, always be sure that the wrist is in such a position that the finger playing the note is lined up with the forearm; don't play with the wrist bent outwards (laterally abducted). Second, when you feel tension, move your elbow a bit. As an example, when playing dotted notes, do it this way. For a dotted quarter, right on the second beat (when you aren't playing any new note) give your elbow a little lift, up and out, just a small, quick motion; it's amazing how this little motion releases tension in the wrist. And in general, any movement of your upper arm or elbow will help keep your forearm and wrist and fingers from getting locked into tension. At least those things helped me a lot.

[dcstudio]

At one time I had this same problem. Improvising really helped.  Learn to love each note you play--right or wrong.  At some point you have to learn to play without the fear that you may offend someone's ears...even your own.  The burden of perfectionism cannot be overcome by the meek and mild mannered pianist. Accept that you may sound "bad" at times and that people may be annoyed and tell you to stop playing. Unless you live alone you will deal with this forever.  
If you have a digital piano you can start by plugging in the headphones and turning the volume up. Get your ears accustomed to a loud sound before trying it out on others.  Also, spend some time at the piano pretending that you are a world famous concert pianist. When you were young you could pretend you were an astronaut--no problem. This is no different. Watch your favorite pianist and then hit the piano with the same force and confidence they have.  This is not about sounding awesome...It's  an exercise to get you comfortable even when you arent.  It works.
You may find that acting like you know what you are doing will eventually cause you to feel more confident and that makes a big difference.

[hfmadopter]

Something you may not know. Mistakes happen to everyone. Mistakes can be and  are edited out of the best recordings we listen to. not only are mistakes edited out but the music is edited for best effect, clarity etc. What you need to learn is to play through your mistakes and continue playing without the mistake without it causing you to derail. Make a note of trouble spots and go back and practice those areas.

Something else you may not know. You can practice trouble spots and cause them to become more troublesome because you have not defined the actual trouble spot. The very notes that you play wrong may not be the issue, it could be and often is the notes leading into those notes that you play wrong or even tension knowing that the trouble spot is coming and so you continually distract yourself off track before you get there. Or you have set up a fingering pattern that triggers the mistake.  So it's very important to painstakingly play very slowly through that whole measure that the mistake happens in and you may discover that actual and true trouble spot . Don't be surprised if it is not the notes you play wrong ! i actually like to play a measure or so before and after the spot that goes bad on me. If you don't find the cause then, well you practicve your mistake making it more solid of a mistake. It might be something in fingering or something in your mood or thought process. I've many times broken a spot like this down to one or two notes that just aren't set up right and so I have to correct my approach to one or two or three notes, finding myslf practicing just those notes all by themselves. but they have to be identified first.

[dcstudio]

My teacher controlled my entire musical life,

Surely you don't mean Dr. R?  He is dead and your music is still alive Louis... trust me when I tell you it is time to let that go. 

[louispodesta]

Surely you don't mean Dr. R?  He is dead and your music is still alive Louis... trust me when I tell you it is time to let that go. 

I will correct my grammatical error.  I meant to say my "teachers" controlled everything in my musical world.

"dcstudio", where have you been for the last five years listening to every single post state: "ad nauseum":  "my teacher this and my teacher that?"

As a philosopher/pianist, I will state that for any pianist:  if you have a problem getting past your own "devotion" to your teacher, then the following ensues:

1) You will eventually become disenchanted, and then you may quit the study of the piano.

2)  Or, you may focus on this supposedly endless (Pianostreet) drivel of who says what to whom.

3)  Or, you can contact me by PM.  Your post is most valid and worthy of a correspondingly logical reply.  What is most important is that is "works" for you!

4)  There is a common, calm, and logical way to do this.  And, this is by no means the only way to effectuate this result.

5)  What is most important is that is "works" for you!

[dcstudio]

I will correct my grammatical error.  I meant to say my "teachers" controlled everything in my musical world.

"dcstudio", where have you been for the last five years listening to every single post state: "ad nauseum":  "my teacher this and my teacher that?"

As a philosopher/pianist, I will state that for any pianist:  if you have a problem getting past your own "devotion" to your teacher, then the following ensues:

1) You will eventually become disenchanted, and then you may quit the study of the piano.

2)  Or, you may focus on this supposedly endless (Pianostreet) drivel of who says what to whom.

3)  Or, you can contact me by PM.  Your post is most valid and worthy of a correspondingly logical reply.  What is most important is that is "works" for you!

4)  There is a common, calm, and logical way to do this.  And, this is by no means the only way to effectuate this result.

5)  What is most important is that is "works" for you!

You know that I do not believe in "teacher worship" and I agree that there are piano teachers who probably do more harm than good.  Perhaps it was simply a grammatical error on your part...or maybe i misunderstood. I understand now what you meant.

I will say that you mention many teachers by name on this forum. There has been only one you have referred to negatively. .the rest you have only praise for...You called one "the best technique guy on the planet.." while our friend Dr R you called an "Ogre."

That's why I thought you were referring to him.

[bronnestam]

Something you may not know. Mistakes happen to everyone. Mistakes can be and  are edited out of the best recordings we listen to. not only are mistakes edited out but the music is edited for best effect, clarity etc. What you need to learn is to play through your mistakes and continue playing without the mistake without it causing you to derail. Make a note of trouble spots and go back and practice those areas.

Something else you may not know. You can practice trouble spots and cause them to become more troublesome because you have not defined the actual trouble spot. The very notes that you play wrong may not be the issue, it could be and often is the notes leading into those notes that you play wrong or even tension knowing that the trouble spot is coming and so you continually distract yourself off track before you get there. Or you have set up a fingering pattern that triggers the mistake.  So it's very important to painstakingly play very slowly through that whole measure that the mistake happens in and you may discover that actual and true trouble spot . Don't be surprised if it is not the notes you play wrong ! i actually like to play a measure or so before and after the spot that goes bad on me. If you don't find the cause then, well you practicve your mistake making it more solid of a mistake. It might be something in fingering or something in your mood or thought process. I've many times broken a spot like this down to one or two notes that just aren't set up right and so I have to correct my approach to one or two or three notes, finding myslf practicing just those notes all by themselves. but they have to be identified first.

O-oh, I like how you phrase it! So very true. I have thought a bit about it, and my theory is that we are all very eager to ... PLAY. To play music. To be a bit virtuoso ... of course, that is why we play the piano in the first place! And then it feels a bit boring and even embarrassing to sit there and stare at your fingers while they play a combination of three lousy notes, even experiment with how you laaand on a certain key and then make a traaaaansition to another, what angle do I have on my wrist here - if someone saw us in that moment, they would think we are beginners who have never touched a piano key in our whole life before.

Well, I have learned that this is how the best pianists actually work. But many of them actually hide it away too. Or they are not even aware of that they are doing it. You are supposed to KNOW already how to do these little things. It is "elementary", right? A great piano virtuoso should not sit there and try out the sound and fingering from the combination C-E-C sharp over and over again. It takes a lot of patience and, again, some pride too.

Or you can pretend you are Lisitsa and try to learn a piece the way she demonstrate in that video where she is studying the Warszaw Concerto. Sight-reading and slamming away arpeggios in full tempo from the very beginning. Looks impressive but hey, don't try this at home, folks ...

[dcstudio]

@bronn
I rather like that Warsaw concerto vid by Val.  I tend to learn things in that same way...which doesn't mean I have her chops....just that I tend to play the arppegios, scales, and chords at full tempo from the start.  I spent so much time at them years ago that they jump off the page.  That is why you practice all that stuff over and over...it was quite an "aha" moment when I realized that it had a prurpose--all that  repition had paid off.  

[louispodesta]

@bronn
I rather like that Warsaw concerto vid by Val.  I tend to learn things in that same way...which doesn't mean I have her chops....just that I tend to play the arppegios, scales, and chords at full tempo from the start.  I spent so much time at them years ago that they jump off the page.  That is why you practice all that stuff over and over...it was quite an "aha" moment when I realized that it had a prurpose--all that  repition had paid off.  

For the record, I am the only person who posts on this website that uses their true name.  And, when I responded to you in other posts, I stated the name of Jack (Lindy) Roberts.  This is a man who always had an open spot on his schedule because he used to throw students out with the trash.

Had you been an actual semester student of this "Ogre," you would have never survived long enough to get to the very high level of musicianship you currently maintain.  And, once again for the record, please post any post from this website who names their teacher by name because (as to your favor) they are scared to death to do so.

That is the point!

Please read my current posts regarding the untimely death of one of my coaches, Charles Aschbrenner, who was the antithesis of an abusive teacher.

[billykid33]

I must say that I've been playing and entertaining way longer I would have imagined, as well as an embarrassingly long time (need to retire) but I don't think you ever totally get complacent especially prior to going on stage.  I know my problem is pre-performance anxiety.  During a performance my mind just super focuses on my music and band, not really the audience per say.  Over the years the one thing I've learned is that if you make a mistake try and do it again, and most people, except maybe musicians, will just think it's part of the routine.  But to answer your question, a lot of practice will build confidence, that simple, then you should improve in this area, at least musically.  Now shyness, or stage fright, which I've felt with as well, is more a psychiatric problem, and other than a mild anxiety pill, or a little alcohol, that is something nobody without a prescription pad can answer on this forum.  But just stick with it, you know if you "have it" and your nerves will calm and anytime you sit down at a piano, you are closer to fixing your problem.  Like I said, it never fully goes away, and the rush is one thing that keeps me going.  If you like piano songs and/or singer songwriters, there is a slight chance you will know me, and in my humble opinion your question is a great one, that nobody can give a for sure answer to.  But believe me, I've played many shows, and I always have butterflies in the gut in the preceding hours.  Enjoy the music more than anything, don't let it work you up, rather let it soothe you like a medicine no doctor can give! Take Care, Drive Safe

[dcstudio]

Practice is fundamental of course and it does bring confidence however, I only really stopped having stage fright after experiencing a few nightmare gigs.  Recovering from a disaster onstage and finishing your set, or sonata, or whatever, really takes the sting out of stage fright. You get to a point where you have seen it all.  I have had accompanying gigs where the music flew right off the piano and I  played a wedding reception during a hurricane. I have booked a big band and ended up with a quartet because of an ice storm. There is so much that can happen to your performance that is beyond your control...getting through the music is the easy part.

The more you perform in public the easier it gets--in my experience.

[richardparkok]

OP