What is the Jelly Roll "Lick" - Jazz Theory and Mark Levine's book?

[pianoplayerstar]

Members and Jazz Specialists:

How does the jelly roll function and what's it's purpose?
QUESTION:  regardless of whether one knows what it is, HOW DO YOU TEACH THIS STUFF?

... how about the "LICK"?
QUESTION:  How do you teach this STUFF?

I hear jazz dudes talk about the jelly roll and the licks and all.

... I'm tryin' to get my head around Mark Levine's Jazz Theory book and it is not easy.. irrespective to the raving reviews and comments by his colleagues... one instructor said that Mark's book is great but, it goes from easy to difficult in an instant... though thorough, it'd be hard to figure out for beginner jazz enthusiasts.... even for perhaps advanced classicists (?)

[dcstudio]

Ancient Chinese Secret grasshopper.

Lol. I don't use a book. I channel the spirit of the great man himself and let him play. Those who are worthy to receive it will then play it.

It's closer to the truth than you think.

Somehow I feel like I am being baited here. 

[j_tour]

Lol. I don't use a book. I channel the spirit of the great man himself and let him play. Those who are worthy to receive it will then play it.

I confess I'm not quite getting it either.  I'm not a Dixieland specialist, but I do enjoy playing some tunes of Ferd's.  Simpler ones like "Buddy Bolden's Blues," "Wining Boy," and of the more up-tempo, I used to like his way of playing "Tiger Rag."

I don't know what the haitch "the Jelly Roll lick" might be.  Maybe just rolling into the major sixth starting on the third (in Eb, just tremolo on G and Eb), and then going from there.  Either he liked sixths a lot, or people he influenced did, and it kind of become part of the style -- take the piano part from "Lawdy Miss Clawdy" for an example, or really just about any of the classic New Orleans R&B from the 1940s+1950s onward.

Hard to say -- not a music historian, but it seems to me that pretty much everybody in blues/rock took something from Jelly Roll, so it's just kind of a part of the music now, especially New Orleans music.

[dcstudio]

I am a fan of the great man and I featured his music in a concert I gave last Feb. He introduced Latin rhythm into ragtime and the result was the first real jazz rhythm. It later morphed into swing. He rolled his chords and stomped his feet and he had many riffs that he was famous for.  I can't think of one that was famous above all the others tho.

[pianoplunker]

Ancient Chinese Secret grasshopper.

Lol. I don't use a book. I channel the spirit of the great man himself and let him play. Those who are worthy to receive it will then play it.

It's closer to the truth than you think.

Somehow I feel like I am being baited here. 

But there is a book written by Alan Lomax which is worth a read if you are a Jelly Roll fan. I read the revision from the 20th century and was greatly inspired.  He had a musical life that connected the new to the old. The book wont teach you actual notes but you get some insight on where this jazz stuff came from.

[pianoplayerstar]

But what about mark levine

[pianoplunker]

But what about mark levine

Never read it but have seen lots of posts talking about it. It probably wont do much good if you dont know what you are looking for, just like any other music book.

[j_tour]

But what about mark levine

Mark Levine is a fine jazz pianist.  He's not any kind of authority, though.  Just some guy who wrote a few books based off some idiosyncratic ideas -- show me an "alt scale" being used in practice, and I'll revise my opinion.

Nobody important conforms to his theories.  

ETA, at least I can say for sure that his "alt-scale" theory isn't used by Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, John Coltrane, or Joe Henderson, or Dave Liebman.

If there's an unaltered second or fifth, it's not an alt chord.  By definition.  Just doesn't happen.  It's a perfect example of someone inventing a problem in order to swoop in and save the day.  Well, good for everyone, music isn't some "problem," unless you want to convince people to buy your system.

In addition, it's not part of the bebop tradition, which is obvious because any jazz player does his or her own transcriptions, and doesn't read out of some ridiculous "Omnibook" for rubes, or whatever.

For actual theory-minded people -- which should be everyone -- Bert Ligon still has his good, Schenkerian-style books on sources of chromaticism in linear improvisation.  As far as anyone knows, actual music theory done by professional analysts still survives.  Mark Levine is a good pianist, with a real knack for Latin rhythms, and I hope he continues to thrive into his platinum years.

[dcstudio]

In addition, it's not part of the bebop tradition, which is obvious because any jazz player does his or her own transcriptions, and doesn't read out of some ridiculous "Omnibook" for rubes, or whatever.

True.

We do our own arrangements.  To play a transcription would be unoriginal and that's  against the rules

[j_tour]

True.

We do our own arrangements.  To play a transcription would be unoriginal and that's  against the rules

Yeah, but it's against the rules to have rules about rules.

[classicalinquisition]

you're most likely talking about Morton: jelly roll morton.  You're probably wondering about his jelly roll blues first composed in the very early 20th century in the world of jazz composition; he was an excellent composer/musician.

as to licks, you're probably asking about how it functions in music. basically it serves as a time for the soloist to have his time on stage for a few seconds where it can either be the primary musician or the accompanist.  mark levine is a modern day jazz composer. it's the Jazz Piano Book that made him famous and now the "Jazz Theory Book". Check it out and you'll see why

[j_tour]

as to licks, you're probably asking about how it functions in music. basically it serves as a time for the soloist to have his time on stage for a few seconds where it can either be the primary musician or the accompanist.

That makes excellent sense.  I was dithering when I surmised about the tremolo on the sixth about if I should mention just doing some stuff in octaves in the LH, just to make a statement.

I'm not an authority or an expert, but I suspect all of the Library of Congress recordings of Ferd are one big "Jelly Roll lick."

And, of course, everyone knows Mark Levine's books -- it's always been fashionable for literate musicians to criticize them, but they have their place as light reading for children.

[dcstudio]

Yeah, but it's against the rules to have rules about rules.

Fair enough. Lol

[pianoplayerstar]

the Jelly roll I thought was a long roll, but another post mentioned it was the name of a 'Morton'

[dcstudio]