Anyone do bulking for gaining muscle, thinking about protein

[Bob]

Because I get my health advice from a piano forum.   Haha.  

I figured out how to lose fat.  Worked well enough.  I'm experimenting with lifting weights to gain muscle now.

I saw you're supposed to take in 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body weight (weight minus fat).  

I made a giant hamburger (lean) and weighed it.  About 9 grams.  Say I weighed 200 pounds - say20 pounds fat, leaving 180 pounds.... To meet the 1g per pound lean weight, I'd need to eat 20 hamburgers, at least.

Is that generally correct or am I missing something?  I have seen some things online mentioning the difficulty of eating enough.


Since it's the first round of experimenting I figured I'd err on the side of too much protein and too many calories.  And then I'm probably not pushing things enough for lifting weights.  But doing that I would think I'd see something happen -- excess calories and supplies, some demand for more muscles.


I'm blanking on how it came up, but I remember a doctor during a general physical telling me you don't really have to worry about protein, that I'd get enough from normal eating.



And... After reading more, on the hamburger idea, that's the meat, but only so much of that is actual protein....   I checked my scale and it is measuring grams.   Oops... Scale can do g, gk, or oz.  It was set on oz. 9oz = 255.146g.    That sounds doable     

...which is about 55g protein...   Dang.
https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/beef/show   


It's sound doable.  It's just eating... somewhat constantly and eating protein with each meal.


Interesting experiment though.

[thalbergmad]

Whey protein is the answer to your problem old chap. I am 210 pounds, but a couple of pints of milk mixed with 3 big scoops goes a long way to providdng my daily needs.

If you are breaking down muscle fibres with exercise, this is the best way to ensure muscle repair without having to eat loads.

Thal

[Bob]

Yeah, I read a post saying whey protein was the most efficient.

Sleep too.  So it sounds like you wake up, eat, lift weights, eat, and sleep.  Repeat the next day.  And eating that much will add an extra session(s) in to complete that process.



I'll see.... Losing fat was interesting enough in its own way.  There are probably pros and cons to gaining muscle too.  It won't be bad to figure out how to do it.  It's going to be more like years probably before I have something down that works for me that I understand enough.

And chicken breasts.  I'd forgotten about those.

[Bob]

There is some kind of subtle difference in eating this way, compared to eating whatever (but healthy) or cutting back.  There is more of sated feeling and a general feeling of "Ok, I'm ready to do something" along with feeling muscles tightened up.

[thalbergmad]

There are probably pros and cons to gaining muscle too. 

As a born again cyclist, there are. Regretfully, after 2 years and 12,000 miles of cycling, my legs are almost as big as when i was powerlifting. Nice for the short flat runs, but not good for the hills.

Perhaps it is just my body type.

Thal

[Bob]

Found a couple negatives so far, but it seems like the body parts that work during the day heal up more with more protein and more calories.

And there amount of protein in food instead quite the weight of the food.  Chicken stills wins with 30% protein.  That's for regular food.
boneless, skinless chicken... 30% protein
ground beef... 20% protein
eggs.... ~10% protein
pork chop... 24g per chop  I think.

Protein powder is more like 45% protein though.  More efficient eating.

Peanut butter is about 22-25% protein.



And some others...
Fish too...  maybe about 50 protein?   (Is that right?  Maybe not....
https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/much-protein-fish-have-6418.html   19 or 26/85g[3oz=~85g]=22-30% protein.   Still high though.)
oatmeal.... 6g per 1 cooked cup
cottage cheese... ~16% protein

[Bob]

As a born again cyclist, there are. Regretfully, after 2 years and 12,000 miles of cycling, my legs are almost as big as when i was powerlifting. Nice for the short flat runs, but not good for the hills.

Perhaps it is just my body type.

Thal

Big muscles aren't good for hills?  Just sprinting?   ...Assuming the short runs are moving quickly there.

[thalbergmad]

Big muscles = more weight = less power to weight ratio, so not good for the hills.

Thal

[ryankmfdm]

So, quick disclaimer: I'm no bodybuilder, but in high school I weighed around 165 lbs at 6'3", and these days I'm still the same height, weighing in around 210. I haven't had my body fat percentage checked in a while, but I'd be shocked if it was more than a few percentage points away from 10.

Anyway, I think the traditional wisdom of consuming one gram of protein per pound of (desired) bodyweight is INSANE. That's a ton of protein. I would say 0.5 - 0.75 g/lb is more reasonable, unless you'd really like to be a mass monster. (Personally, I prefer to just look athletic, as opposed to looking like a bodybuilder.)

The two factors I think that are more important than the net amount you consume are: (1) Which kind of protein you consume; and (2) When you consume it. There are definitely better resources out there than me when it comes to types of protein supplements, but the most basic thing to consider is how quickly it's processed by your body (e.g., whey is digested relatively quickly, whereas casein is digested relatively slowly).

My advice would be to get, maybe, 20 - 30 grams of fast-digesting first thing in the morning (when you're in a fasted state), and also immediately after working out. If you'd like to get another 20 - 30 grams in without altering your usual routine too much, maybe consider another 20 - 30 grams of casein before bed. This means it'd be in your best interest to get yourself a tub of whey protein powder and maybe a tub of casein.

Additionally, the sort of workout you do is very important. I'd focus on mainly compound exercises (e.g., squats, deadlifts, overhead pulls, bench pressing, etc.) as opposed to isolation exercises (e.g., bicep curls, triceps extensions, etc.). While going as heavy as possible is actually not ideal for bulking, you should be going relatively heavy. For myself, I only do full-body workouts because I find working only one muscle group per workout intolerably boring. But the idea is you should give your muscles a 48-hour rest period between workouts.

[Bob]

Thanks.  More info is good.

I've definitely got some pec things going.  Manly pecs, not tiny boobs.

There's a different feeling too still when I eat a certain amount, probably a certain amount of protein I'm thinking.

Also more fat though, but I expected that.  It looks like for each pound of muscle, there's 2/3 to 1.5 pounds of fat.  It's erring on the side of growing some muscle though. 

I compared weight measurements though and there's still extra weight according to the scale that's not fat or muscle.  Could be water, but I was wondering about bones.  If you lift weights more, and the bones get stressed and recover/grow, do they add extra weight if they're more dense?

I think I actually had whey protein before.  Years old, but I finished it.  From Walmart, EAS brand.  Then I got more, but now I see it doesn't say what kind of protein.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/EAS-Soy-Protein-Chocolate-Powder-20.7oz/4786957
It's like a sponge though.  Add water, think it's too watered down.  Then a minute later it's solid, chocolate foam instead.

I'll have to look for casein protein though....

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Whey protein is the answer to your problem old chap. I am 210 pounds, but a couple of pints of milk mixed with 3 big scoops goes a long way to providdng my daily needs.

If you are breaking down muscle fibres with exercise, this is the best way to ensure muscle repair without having to eat loads.

Thal

THREE SCOOPS?

That's a lot

[Bob]

Hm... Depends.  If 150g is the generic recommendation or if you use 1g protein per pound lean body weight (weight - fat pounds) [which still gives around 150g anyway], three scoops isn't enough.

1 scoop = 20g protein 

You need more like 7.5 or 8 scoops -- per day -- to get 150g.

3 scoops = 60g protein.  That would be pretty easy to get in in a day.  I started eating 2 scoops right after waking.  The stuff foams/solidifies though.  It looks like it's thick chocolate milk, but then it turns into a solid foam.  Edible enough.

If I'm going to err on the side of caution here, that would be the 150g/day number (or 1g/1pound lean body weight).  150 is just easier to think with.


I got actual whey protein and casein protein today.  Man is that stuff expensive.  $20 (or $40, blanking now) per tub.  One of them I couldn't buy a smaller tub.  Unless I wanted to go to another store, it was just buying a giant tub, so that's what I did.


I ended up going through one of these smaller soy protein (whatever that is exactly, but I'm not sure it's whey) this week.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/EAS-Soy-Protein-Chocolate-Powder-20.7oz/4786957


I also discovered cod.  I've heard about that.  For whatever it is for protein (I found differing numbers) it's either as high as other meat or more like double.  No bones.  Not much taste, but very edible.

The other surprise was even though I gained more weight, I actually lost some weight when I was watching it.  Essentially stuffing myself and the numbers on the scale went down.  That's telling me whatever I was thinking before probably wasn't 100% right or accurate.

I'm still waiting and seeing what will happen.  And how it swings back to effect music practicing.  I have a feeling some of it (body repair) is directly related.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Hm... Depends.  If 150g is the generic recommendation or if you use 1g protein per pound lean body weight (weight - fat pounds) [which still gives around 150g anyway], three scoops isn't enough.

1 scoop = 20g protein 

You need more like 7.5 or 8 scoops -- per day -- to get 150g.

3 scoops = 60g protein.  That would be pretty easy to get in in a day.  I started eating 2 scoops right after waking.  The stuff foams/solidifies though.  It looks like it's thick chocolate milk, but then it turns into a solid foam.  Edible enough.

If I'm going to err on the side of caution here, that would be the 150g/day number (or 1g/1pound lean body weight).  150 is just easier to think with.


I got actual whey protein and casein protein today.  Man is that stuff expensive.  $20 (or $40, blanking now) per tub.  One of them I couldn't buy a smaller tub.  Unless I wanted to go to another store, it was just buying a giant tub, so that's what I did.

This might just be a personal thing but I try to only take two scoops a day MAX and everything else is through food.

If you get the right tub some of the whey is 30 grams per scoop.  If you buy a blender bottle it's WAY easier to mix trust me.  They're only like 8 bucks

[thalbergmad]

THREE SCOOPS?

That's a lot

I average 16 hours a week exercise, so I need my protein.

Thal

[Bob]

Still wondering if bones gain weight from getting stressed and healing from lifting weight and how much that might be.  A pound?  Five pounds?

Also wondering how you can put more weight on things like the abs or lower back muscles.  For an arm curl, you just pick up a heavier weight.  There's not quite a 1 to 1 equivalent for that for something like the torso, although I guess you have just pick up a weight and hold it to achieve something more.

[pazzi]

I'm trying to gain some mass too...

Reddit may be useful:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gainit/

[Bob]

I was wondering when to switch back and burn fat.  I'm just getting tired of being heavier.  I'm starting to look forward to being lighter.  Pros and cons either way though.  And this was a "proof of concept" success I'd say.