^ Stage Fright: The R-E-A-L / S-E-C-R-E-T --> "Don't Impress" ^

[pianoplayerstar]

Okay, pianostreet members and aficionados:

Someone, I forgot WHO said this on these boards or somewhere where I read said something so ingenious, I was scratching myself, "Why didn't I think of that before?"

This is great for all PERFORMERS and for those giving advice to PERFORMERS as well.

Q:  How do you get rid of stage fright?

A:  Don't try to impress the audience.

That's it.

Daniel Barenboim, in his book wrote something about this where if you think about the audience, it really messes up the performance.

Thanks a bunch.
pps

[louispodesta]

Okay, pianostreet members and aficionados:

Someone, I forgot WHO said this on these boards or somewhere where I read said something so ingenious, I was scratching myself, "Why didn't I think of that before?"

This is great for all PERFORMERS and for those giving advice to PERFORMERS as well.

Q:  How do you get rid of stage fright?

A:  Don't try to impress the audience.

That's it.

Daniel Barenboim, in his book wrote something about this where if you think about the audience, it really messes up the performance.

Thanks a bunch.
pps

As a pianist/philosopher, I was taught a very valuable lesson over 40 years ago by my spouse, who is a tax, estate planning and probate lawyer.  She learned this from her 7 years as an U.S. Internal Revenue Service Agent before she went to Law School.

One day I asked her about the IRS big thick booklet that supposedly teaches any U.S. citizen how to prepare their own income tax return.  I innocently asked:  well, does this not pretty much cover it all.

Her answer was: there is a big difference between "simple" and "simplistic."  And, per this post, that is exactly the situation we have here, in my opinion.

Daniel Barenboim has never played for any one other than himself, nor did Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, who said so in no uncertain terms.  The only flaw in that logic is that these artists have and continue to take the money resulting from their performances before these "incidental" audiences.

Further, any search on this website will show that I have weighed in on this particular subject "ad nauseum."

Inderal, Neurofeedback, and EmWave, are all very valuable non-narcotic methods of getting the nerves monkey off of ones back.  All this Artur Rubinstein garbage about playing for one person and then forgetting about the rest of the audience is pure hubris.

As a philosopher musician, I absolutely know what that word means.

Personally, when I perform, I am there to give my all to the music, and the same to those assembled to listen.  My God, who gave me this talent, expects no less of me.

[pianoplayerstar]

What I'm talking about is how one gets rid of the nerves, not what one is actually thinking when it comes to performing for the public.

Of course, Elvis Presley performed FOR THE PUBLIC.  In fact, I'm guessing that was his style:  TO ENTERTAIN.  

As to nerves for Pianists, this is a monster always creeping up for those amateurs trying to break through into the glitz of the Piano World.  Once there, you can think about YOURSELF and the money may still keep rolling.

There is a difference between performing for the sake of performing because it's a profession, AND performing by TRYING TO BREAK THROUGH.

Stage Fright is probably a beast that faces everyone who hasn't made it yet, but wants to break through.

To those who have ALREADY broken through the amateur curtain, they may be "nervous" or even slightly "afraid", but I don't think Stage Fright would be the term to use, because they're past that stage.

For those pianists in high school, college, graduate school, and those trying to win the Cliburn or the Chopin competition trying to get NOTICED by a record company or from some juror staring down at their playing, STAGE FRIGHT is a huge deal... a huge deal.

Why?

ANSWER:  Because they haven't made it, yet.  

(I just thought this solution to stage fright was ingenious:  DON'T TRY TO IMPRESS)

INGENIOUS!

[louispodesta]

Not hardly.  Like I said, I know the meaning of hubris.

1)  "Don't try to impress the audience," exactly, what does that mean?

2)  Horowitz (and every booking agent around) has sought to "dazzle" the audience with their artist's mastery.  He specifically stated so in his later years.  That means he "hammed it up."

3)  The Royal College of Music has utilized Neurofeedback for years to drastically improve performance, but then again, you are not a person who cites science.  Daniel Barenboim is not science!

4)  As stated before, simple versus simplistic.  Those who peruse this website are very much not less intelligent on matters such as this.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

As to nerves for Pianists, this is a monster always creeping up for those amateurs trying to break through into the glitz of the Piano World.  Once there, you can think about YOURSELF and the money may still keep rolling.

There is a difference between performing for the sake of performing because it's a profession, AND performing by TRYING TO BREAK THROUGH.

Stage Fright is probably a beast that faces everyone who hasn't made it yet, but wants to break through.

To those who have ALREADY broken through the amateur curtain, they may be "nervous" or even slightly "afraid", but I don't think Stage Fright would be the term to use, because they're past that stage.

For those pianists in high school, college, graduate school, and those trying to win the Cliburn or the Chopin competition trying to get NOTICED by a record company or from some juror staring down at their playing, STAGE FRIGHT is a huge deal... a huge deal.

Why?

ANSWER:  Because they haven't made it, yet.  

It doesn't work like that at all. Some people are temperamentally susceptible and others aren't. It doesn't matter how good or bad they are. Horowitz and Henselt were both great pianists who assuredly had made it, but both had terrible stage fright. But it is correct to say that you should play for yourself, not to impress others. That comes naturally when you are playing well.

[minhogang]

Another way to put it is perform like you are practicing. When you practice, you play to yourself, and not afraid of making mistakes.

[visitor]

find stage freight is analogous to nerves on an academic exam or any other of many types of evaluations. the more prepared I am the less 'frightened' i am. nerves are normal and good to an extent so it's not to say one should be totally low energy not anxious etc.
i actually perform my best when I am there to say, ok everyone check this out, this is super cool! to myself. the performance is the reward, the easy part of the process. hours and and months of hard work come together and now you get to enjoy presenting something to your audience. if you have prepared adequately and that includes performance practice (someone said earlier, to perform like to you practice, the reverse is true, you must practice as you will perform so mock performances, rehearsals under similar performance conditions etc will aid in prep), there is little to fear since you have proven to yourself you can perform the work well , at that point you are genuinely free to express yourself and present something special to your audience, there is showmanship in that, and I don't think it should be disregarded.

[tenk]

There are now two more certain things in this world, to go along with death and taxes:

1) pianoplayerstar will make horrific-looking low-content threads, using random keyboard symbols and erratic capitalization, as if he/she were actually rolling their face on the keyboard. Like what the f, it seriously looks like spam and I wish there were a way for me to just block any text written by them.

2) Louis will prattle on about being a "pianist/philosopher" (whatever that means), make a numbered list of topics unrelated both to the original post as and each other, claim absurd things like Horowitz "artificially enhanced his instrument" (again, whatever that means) without citing any reputable source, and then finally remind us all again that he's a "philosopher musician". While I would not be inclined to block him as with pianoplayerstar, the danger is that someone young and impressionable might happen upon this forum, read his drivel, and mistakenly think he has the slightest clue what he's talking about.

[louispodesta]

Horowitz "artificially enhanced his instrument" (again, whatever that means) without citing any reputable source,"

1)  My late teacher taught me in the 1970's that he had personal conversations with people who played on the instrument, and that you could let your left hand fall in the lower register and it sounded like a bomb going off.

2)  Very recently, I had an email conversation with Dr. Robert Levin of Harvard who performed an entire recital on the Horowitz piano in Chicago as a Steinway artist.  He questioned my comment about the current piano touring the country as not being the real "Horowitz" piano.  I responded with my following evidence, and was not challenged by my conclusion.

3)  The real Horowitz piano, which no longer exists, had doctored hammers throughout.  How do I know this?

4)  The Steinway factory trained tuner/technician who has tuned my piano for the last ten years was in New York after Horowitz' death.  He asked Horowitz' technician to pull the action so he could look at it.

5)  Sure enough, there it was:  old hammers (hard as a rock), new soft hammers, and lacquered hammers, all scattered throughout.  As I told Dr. Levin, he was most likely one of the last pianists to play on the actual Horowitz piano.

Finally, in regards the OP's question, I have Low-level Parkinson's Disease and have had tremors for my entire 65 years on this earth.  I do not now have nerve problems at the piano, and I am enjoying my music and playing at a level I had never imagined.

That is my daily reality, and your approval/understanding matters not.  I just hope the OP does not listen to all this (albeit very well-intentioned) psycho-babble about getting in touch with your feelings.

As I said in earlier posts, practically every surgeon (especially cardiac) takes a Beta Blocker before they operate because their patients who are under anesthetic want to wake up and get on with their lives.  They could care less if their Doctor got them to that point with psychological mind control or a simple non-narcotic pill.

[pianoplayerstar]

If horowitz piano was doctored no wonder he played so smoothly.

Also remember he would bring his own Steinway everywhere he travelled.

He also got 80 percent and his agents got 20 per cent when the industry standard was 20 or 40 or 50 per cent piano player star and the rest to the agent or whoever was the business manager at the time

As to performing actors might think of association and colors to remember certain phrases or even codes, pianists too may think of colors while performing.

Once you've done it and so called made it stage fright is not the proverbial stage fright... but its nerves.

Until you make it i'd think it's called stage fright.

Stage fright is more for amateurs and below.

Nerves is the better term for professional piano player stars.

Maybe it's just a matter of terminology.

Barenboim is along the lines of rubinstein and horowitz... true thinkers of piano and philosophies without having to compromise the performance of it all... they won't miss a beat when it comes to playing the notes.

Whereas Lang lang Murray perahaia Danil trifinov and other young uns are more modern performers.... they're the future of how piano performance will be..... Barenboim and horowitz classical stable style will or is obsolete.. even Zimmermann's style may become obsolete.

You see performance is all about looks and style .. and how do you achive that these days?.. DON'T PLAY TO IMPRESS

[classicalinquisition]

Murray is not considered young. Still an interesting post star.

[outin]

1) pianoplayerstar will make horrific-looking low-content threads, using random keyboard symbols and erratic capitalization, as if he/she were actually rolling their face on the keyboard. Like what the f, it seriously looks like spam and I wish there were a way for me to just block any text written by them.

But have you noticed that he has actually been responding to some of the things written by others lately?

[pianoplunker]

Okay, pianostreet members and aficionados:

Someone, I forgot WHO said this on these boards or somewhere where I read said something so ingenious, I was scratching myself, "Why didn't I think of that before?"

This is great for all PERFORMERS and for those giving advice to PERFORMERS as well.

Q:  How do you get rid of stage fright?

A:  Don't try to impress the audience.

That's it.

Daniel Barenboim, in his book wrote something about this where if you think about the audience, it really messes up the performance.

Thanks a bunch.
pps

"That's it."  Is far too simplistic and in my opinion not for everyone. There are lots of life examples where we need to impress the audience and hope to put our best foot forward whether it is a job interview, trying out for a sports team, or playing piano in front of people. I would say the opposite of your answer. Dont let the audience try to impress you.   Many musicians are successful by engaging the audience. If you agree to a performance, you are doing it for the audience. As far as nerves/anxiety - use that energy as anticipation/excitement, the moment is here. We have prepared and prepared for this, go out and give it to the world. If we just say we are not here to impress, we might yawn in front of everybody

[pianist1976]

DON'T PLAY TO IMPRESS

Well, I quite agree, in abstract. Trying to impress audience, or other variants of the same behavior, is maybe an important part of the stage fright complex problem. But being much of the fear in a great part an automatic/inconscious/subconscious reaction, only trying consciously to let go the desire to impress (or the desire to not fail the expectations of the audience, the desire to achieve status, etc, etc) is not going to work in many cases. It may help but is not enough.

The most important thing, in my humble opinion, to cope with stage fright (I agree with you, pianoplayerstar) is becoming from amateur to professional, in the sense of giving as much recitals as you can. The gradual and controlled exposition to the fearful concert conditions is key. The more concerts/recitals you give, the less stage fright you'll have. You can, of course, do other therapies (affirmations, Gestalt, psychoanalysis...) but for me exposition to the source of fear is the most important one. If you accustom your brain, soul and body to the concert conditions and if your complete self learns that the concert environment is not a potentially harmful one, one day you will play maybe with nerves (sometimes even healthy for the performance) instead of that ruining panic.

Byron Janis gave 40 concerts before his Carnegie Hall debut. Lang Lang gave 80. We just can't count how many gave Richter before... Letting go ego desires, yes. Exposition to concert conditions to get accustomed to, yes too.

[louispodesta]

In terms of "Please Note," you cannot perform at an advanced level if your nerves are out of control.

Therefore, in that I have spoken on this subject at length, for those who desire specific guidance on this matter, please contact me (as always, for free) by PM.

Thank you for your courtesy.

[pianoplayerstar]

Well, I quite agree, in abstract. Trying to impress audience, or other variants of the same behavior, is maybe an important part of the stage fright complex problem. But being much of the fear in a great part an automatic/inconscious/subconscious reaction, only trying consciously to let go the desire to impress (or the desire to not fail the expectations of the audience, the desire to achieve status, etc, etc) is not going to work in many cases. It may help but is not enough.

The most important thing, in my humble opinion, to cope with stage fright (I agree with you, pianoplayerstar) is becoming from amateur to professional, in the sense of giving as much recitals as you can. The gradual and controlled exposition to the fearful concert conditions is key. The more concerts/recitals you give, the less stage fright you'll have. You can, of course, do other therapies (affirmations, Gestalt, psychoanalysis...) but for me exposition to the source of fear is the most important one. If you accustom your brain, soul and body to the concert conditions and if your complete self learns that the concert environment is not a potentially harmful one, one day you will play maybe with nerves (sometimes even healthy for the performance) instead of that ruining panic.

Byron Janis gave 40 concerts before his Carnegie Hall debut. Lang Lang gave 80. We just can't count how many gave Richter before... Letting go ego desires, yes. Exposition to concert conditions to get accustomed to, yes too.

pianist1976, i had NO Idea.

Lang Lang had about 80 concerts BEFORE Carnegie?! Wow.

well, that says it:  gotta practice the art of Stage Fright before you can conquer the 2nd step of performing:  NERVES.

A simple solution is:  BE IN THE MOMENT.

This is a performance tip for any pianist, actor, or for anything.  When you're in-the-moment, in a crude sense, you really don't care or think about what others are thinking or doing.... you only think about yourself.

I kind of equate it to a great performer and a good performer.

.... a Great actor and a Very Good Actor... there's a difference.

Leonardo DiCaprio.

What is he?  Great? or Very Good?

ANSWER:  He is a VERY VERY VERY (and might I add "VERY".. again) Good Actor.... and I'll add it again... a very "Good" and I'll also add "Excellent" Actor.

HOWEVER, HOWEVER, in my my arrogant (or humble?) opinion, he is not "Great" in the sense of the Actor's World.

Robert DeNiro is a Great Actor... Great in the sense that he acts in-the-moment.

It's called METHOD ACTING.  Al Pacino has it too.

When you watch them, you can see it deep in their eyes.

Leonardo DiCaprio is being himself.  When you watch him act, you know it's "Leo DiCaprio" (I think.)

When you watch DeNiro or Al Pacino, they are THE actual characters.  They're so focused, so -IN-THE-MOMENT- if you will, that literally, it's more than just INTENSE ACTING.

INTENSE ACTING is different than OVERACTING, which is what I see DiCaprio doing sometimes.

Remember, DiCap is not a junk actor (see above)... he's a very very good actor.. and excellent actor.

But he is NOT DeNiro or Pacino.

This is the same with pianists.... you can see if someone is really in-the-moment or not.

Being in the moment doesn't mean ........

................... the pianist is performing while closing his or her eyes, contorting her his face SW or NW or North or East, or sweating profusely, or smiling in lost amusement (like you can see in Danil Trifinov), or shaking hair follicles where you can literally see white pieces of dandruff splashing left and right and on the keys, or even ending a pieces with such vigor like ....Perahia ....

..............(although Perahia, I HAVE to admit is a man who plays in-the-moment... it's like drinking a bold cup of dark coffee in the morning when you listen to Perahia, so I have to give it to him as to his so-called "ending vigor" as he ends a Beethoven Sonata)..........


but most importantly, being in the moment means to be 'lost' in the moment, such that the audience literally knows what you're thinking almost and the audience is lost too.

I once heard Sarah Chang (violinist) once say that she wants to play so that she can take the audience into a different timeframe [then she's done her job].... or something to this effect.

So how do you recognize a PERFORMER whether they're IN-THE-MOMENT or not?

ANSWER?  You gotta watch 'em.  You'll know it when you see it.

[debussychopin]

What if you are required to impress??

 Each time I watch the Bach Chaconne performed by Helene Grimaud (see youtube, where she is dressed in the off-white linen on center stage in front of millions of people...I presume, well, seems like it by the way the video is shot).

I try to put myself into that situation where she is in and I start sweating cold sweat bullets. I psyche myself out like wow how does the heck she do that Perform in front of millions of demanding audience members (critics and cynics alike, and those all have paid and sacrificed time to see her!!)
And she not only has to survive playing it note perfect but also play with a grace and artistic expression that wil move the cynic.


I cannot fathom the pressure for that situation.

I sometimes dream a nightmare where I have to perform a piano piece in front of hundreds of people on a huge piano for a piece I have not really prepared well. It is really really a nightmare!!


OK.

[louispodesta]

You gals/guys are not going to believe this but, once upon a time (before most of you were born), I played the Schumann Arabeque as part of a group recital, in a very large hall.

The instrument was a fairly decent Steinway Concert Grand, and I thought the performance went okay.  My basic goal was to start and finish because my hands (for the very first time) felt like they were the same temperature as the auditorium air conditioner.  I could not get them warm.

Parenthetically, Gina Bachauer played a recital in the very same hall.  Her husband/manager kept asking for warm towels, and everybody laughed at him.

Nevertheless, my personal philosophy of performance is that by making oneself with the music and also remembering to project (based on the size of the hall), the music will come through to the audience.

After my performance, a 70'sh man walked up to me, shook my hand, and then said:  "you spoke to my soul."

Moments like that, dear friends, makes it all worthwhile.  I very much hope you have the same thing happen to you one day.  However, playing just for yourself (in order to get rid of your nerves) is very much, in my opinion, missing the forest for the trees.

The late Richard Cass (of NTSU and the Kansas City Conservatory) told every one of his students that if you don't have an ego, then you had better never walk out on that stage.

However, there is a very big difference between egotism and egoism.  One is selfish, and the other is loving and pro-active.

[rmbarbosa]

it`s not true surgeons take beta-blockers before their interventions. I habe been surgeon along more or less 10 years and never took any drug.

About be nervous when playing: a moderate degree of anxiety is not harmfull. Without some anxiety many of us dont be able to play well and with "feeling".

One friend of mine, when I played for the first time in a concert, when she saw I was very ansious, took my hand and with a smile said: dont be afraid, it`s only people (non abbiamo paora, e solo la gente). She is italian. And her words gave me a great serenity.

E solo la gente. People who like music but cant perceive a mistake, a wrong key... "E solo la gente" 

Beta blockers low arterial tension. If someone, like me, have 100/60 mmHg, and take a beta blocker, probably remain with 80/40 what isnt very good in order to perform well... 

[louispodesta]

it`s not true surgeons take beta-blockers before their interventions. I habe been surgeon along more or less 10 years and never took any drug.

About be nervous when playing: a moderate degree of anxiety is not harmfull. Without some anxiety many of us dont be able to play well and with "feeling".

One friend of mine, when I played for the first time in a concert, when she saw I was very ansious, took my hand and with a smile said: dont be afraid, it`s only people (non abbiamo paora, e solo la gente). She is italian. And her words gave me a great serenity.

E solo la gente. People who like music but cant perceive a mistake, a wrong key... "E solo la gente" 

Beta blockers low arterial tension. If someone, like me, have 100/60 mmHg, and take a beta blocker, probably remain with 80/40 what isnt very good in order to perform well... 

With all due respect as a son of a physician, this is obviously another put up post by someone (who obviously has never practiced surgical medicine in the U.S.) because these surgeons do use Beta Blockers like Inderal before surgery.

Accordingly, his comments are not on point, per my original response to the OP's post.  Nice try, Pianostreet.com.

[dogperson]

With all due respect as a son of a physician, this is obviously another put up post by someone (who obviously has never practiced surgical medicine in the U.S.) because these surgeons do use Beta Blockers like Inderal before surgery.

Accordingly, his comments are not on point, per my original response to the OP's post.  Nice try, Pianostreet.com.

Really, Louis, you can't be an authority on everything.  Just because you were the son of a physician, doesn't mean you know the incidence rate of surgeons who use beta blockers.  And to insult a physician who posts his personal lack of beta blocker use on this forum?   Really uncalled for, AGAIN.

[vaniii]

Louis has the best of intentions; he just can be blunt.

I am sure he meant no offence.

[lostinidlewonder]

I love the audience and draw a lot of energy from them when performing. Of course I have stage "butterflies" in my stomach before walking on stage, it is a mixture of excitement to perform (like getting ready to bungee jump) and seriousness of the duty I have to perform. I have performed on stage since I was young so have had much experience performing successfully and not so successfully. We are all human and will always make mistakes some days that is ok, no one (at least most normal people) remembers you for your mistakes! Exposing yourself to many performance opportunities does help, trying to trick your brain to ignore what naturally comes from you, I don't think is a good idea long term. With anything practice helps so get practicing performing everywhere and anywhere, you often will learn a lot about yourself and your nerves.

[louispodesta]

Louis has the best of intentions; he just can be blunt.

I am sure he meant no offence.

For the record, Inderal (generic Propranalol) is the most widely prescribed Beta Blocker in the world.  As a somewhat obtuse reference in his Memoir, Earl Wild (who died from congestive heart failure, at the age of 96!) stated that if he had it do all over again, he would still take the Beta Blockers.

The reason is that if one goes on the blood thinners it drains the energy of your normal life experience, and most importantly (because of weekly blood tests) it gives one the mindset that they can drop dead at any moment.

As a surprise, my Infectious Disease Specialist who is treating me for an inflamed Prostate Gland, said that I should not take L-Carnitine.  However, everthing I have researched has told me that it would metabolize my body fatty cell structure, but it would it also give me a very slight energy boost.  And, it has.

[tenk]

As a surprise, my Infectious Disease Specialist who is treating me for an inflamed Prostate Gland, said that I should not take L-Carnitine.  However, everthing I have researched has told me that it would metabolize my body fatty cell structure, but it would it also give me a very slight energy boost.  And, it has.

Why the hell would anyone here need to know about your inflamed prostate? Your "research" qualifies you to contradict a trained specialist? And what does any of this have to do with piano performance?

This all basically sums up Louis for me: cites opinion as fact, anecdote as evidence, and claims expertise in all fields based on some tenuous link as if being related to a doctor makes someone a doctor. Just give it up already...

[mrcreosote]

Stage Fright takes on a whole new, horrific meaning if you are aware that your ability to recall from memory is not robust.