Interacting with sales people

[jr11]

I have sold pianos before. I notice a lot of people on this forum bashing piano sales people. If you find you are not being treated with respect, it may well be because you’re not being a good customer!

If you are a good player, and shopping for a piano, you are a rarity. Believe it or not, about 70% of piano customers don't even play the piano! Of the remainder, only a very small number can play anything more difficult than Fur Elise. Maybe 5% of all buyers can do justice to a Sonata or Prelude & Fugue; probably less than that.

I play quite well. When I first started in sales, I would demonstrate the virtues of the instrument by playing difficult pieces. I soon realized this was the wrong thing to do, as it scared customers off. Imagine trying to sell a car to someone who doesn’t know how to drive, doesn’t know how a car functions, or has rarely, if ever, even been in a car. They just like the idea of owning a nice one, and maybe their kids will learn to drive. Take them for a drive around the racetrack and they’ll freak. Explain how an engine works, and they’re confused, bored, and figure you’re trying to baffle them with bull. So you have to speak in terms they understand. Ie: it has a good warranty, holds its value, is a reliable and/or prestigious brand, has a beautiful body/cabinet, will feel good to drive/look wonderful in the home, is hand built by craftsmen to exacting standards, blah, blah…

The easiest sell for a sales person is to a good player. The instrument sells itself. So if you know how to play, sit down and play! Don’t be shy. The sales people don’t care if you make mistakes. They will leave you on your own to get to be one with the instrument, or at least most will. Bring music along if you need it, or ask to borrow some. Ask questions, and try out any piano that catches your eye. Most sales people don’t know how to play, because they don’t have to… they just have to know how to interpret what the buyer can afford and desires, and close the deal. It should be a win-win situation. The worst thing you can do is play dumb; you’ll be treated dumb.

‘nuff said.

[faulty_damper]

So in other words, I'll know if the piano is superb if I can play the Rach 3 on it and it will sell itself to me for a steep discount.

Thanks for sharing from the other perspective.

[Axtremus]

JR11 -- Great post!
(Plus, it takes guts to call the customers "not a good customer." )

Using faulty-Damper's Rach 3 example -- if you can play Rach 3, you really don't need to care about white spruce versus Siberian spruce, Abel versus Imadegawa, high tension versus low tension, "hand-crafted" versus "mass produced" (not that they are mutually exclusive), or Renner versus everything else. If your Rach 3 sounds good on a piano and you can execute it with (relative) ease, the piano IS good, and you know it just like that. No sales pitch necessary to convince you the piano is good because it has Abel or Renner or Roslau or whatever else inside, or tell you which famous pianists play that brand to assure you of its "good"ness.

JR11 -- If you don't mind me asking -- do you sell pianos in the US? I'm just wondering if in some other parts of the world, the ratio of player/non-player among piano shoppers/buyers may be different than the ratio you observed. Thanks.

(That said, and I mean no offense to you personally, you got to admit there are still some very bad sales weasles out there, no? )

[sirpazhan]

I have sold pianos before. I notice a lot of people on this forum bashing piano sales people. If you find you are not being treated with respect, it may well be because you’re not being a good customer!

"the customer is always right" This is universal in the United States (if not the world),,,  -- so a Professional salesman does not have to dis-respect (or not respect) a customer just because he feel the customer is not being a "good customer" -- If I get treated poorly,, I will go elsewhere,, and the salesman just lost his deal, and commission, so who wins here? 

BTW, how the hell do you become a "bad customer" anyway?

[Axtremus]

BTW, how the hell do you become a "bad customer" anyway?

Hmmm... by not having enough $$$ in your pocket or good enough credit or lack the intention to actually buy?

[gkatele]

What an amazing post from a salesperson! Thanks for your insight and analysis. I went piano shopping today to a couple of dealers, and had a couple of interesting experiences - let me share with you, if you don't mind.

A little about me. I'm returning to the piano after 30 years of no lessons and have returned for the last 6 months. I'm resurrecting a Grieg sonata, some Rachmaninoff and learning the WTC C major/minor preludes/fugues.

First stop - the local Kawai/Schimmel/Bohemia dealer. I was treated courteously by the salesperson, who let me try EVERYTHING in the store. I had the (amazing) experience of playing a Shigeru Kawai (did I spell that right?) SK3 (is that right?). I am NOT a good pianist, anymore, and I hit a lot of wrong notes (after 30 years of not playing, I suppose that's expected).

Interestingly, the owner of this dealership came out and started talking to me.
"How long you been playing...etc., etc., etc."

"It's so nice to have someone come onto the floor and NOT play Für Elise. You know, someone with a 'sparkle' in their fingers."

Now, this may be a sales pitch, but, it made an impression.

Second stop - the Yamaha dealer. Played the C3 (left me cold) and the S6 (a nice instrument). Long talk with the salesmen. After spending almost an hour there, one of them says to me "Thanks for spending all this time here. Most people come, look at a piano (usually a Young Chang) and say 'I don't have a lot of time to spend, so I gotta run.' You didn't do that, and we appreciate that."

May be a sales pitch, but it made an impression. "Thanks for spending YOUR time at our store."

Holy cow!

That's how you make sales and customers.

Just my 1/50th of a dollar.




George

[jr11]

Nice replies; thanks people!

Axtremus: I have sold pianos before, but not in the US. I have heard that sales people of all commodities are more aggressive in the US. Level of player knowledge and expertise might vary regionally, but probably has more to do with the price range of instruments a store sells. Most stores have several brands they carry, each for a different a different level of player and budget.

sirpazhan: perhaps you mis-interpret me. Believe it or not, the salesperson is actually there to help you, by guiding you to the instrument that is appropriate for you. Thus, it is a cooperative relationship; a good salesperson will help you, if you can be a good customer by letting them. Otherwise, they will default to the assumption you are among the 70% that know little, and will talk down to you. When approached by a sales person, tell them your skill level, budget, and any other major influencing factors. You may be suprised by what they find for you. Sales people are influenced 90% by knowing the pianos they have in their store, not by what outside sources have to say. Very few people that come into a store wind up buying the product they had in mind when they walked in, because they end up finding something more appropriate for themselves. The final decision on purchase is always made by the customer, not the sales person.

faulty_Damper: profit margins for pianos are quite consistent. Variation in prices have more to do with other factors. Eg: how much the dealer pays for the instruments, freight costs, building rental, staff salaries, and other related operating costs customers don't consider and wouldn't care much about anyhow. But they are realities. There are some variations in pricing regionally, but this is changing as customers start shopping more globally. This trend in itself is worriesome, because I have seen many instances where the same model of piano varies hugely in quality and consistency; there are sweethearts and lemons. Words of wisdom: 1) shop in person, and 2) you tend to get what you pay for. Beware of what appears to be a deeply discounted item. The dealer has some motivation to get it out of the store quickly.

George K: those dealers were being honest with you. It is a pleasure to have a talented, or at least learned customer. It impresses other customers that people of that calibre shop there, and it is nice to have a quality live performance. Again, you are not playing in front of teachers or adjudicators, but people who truly enjoy piano music. Sales staff do as well, or they'd find another, more lucrative commodity to sell. It doesn't work as well if the playing is done by store staff; it looks more like a sales pitch. Indeed, a piano store is a wonderful place to show off your best in a non-pressure environment. Just don't overstay your welcome... these expensive instruments are for sale , so if it becomes clear that you are interested in using the shop for a playground over interest in purchase, you may be encouraged to move along.

[galonia]

Wow, thanks for this post!  Every piano store I've walked into has signs on each piano telling people not to play them without asking staff first.  I can understand that, since most the noise I hear in piano shops is just that - noise - parents bringing 8 year old Alice in to buy a piano because after two years, she seems to be serious, but she can still only play Mary Had a Little Lamb extremely badly, yet her parents thinks she's a genius...

Anyway, my father always said the same thing as what you did, JR11 - he said I shouldn't feel shy about trying a piano, because with one phrase, the sales people will be able to tell I can actually play.  But usually, I still hold back.

Then I arrived in Harrods, London, with 2 school friends, and the piano showroom there made me salivate unbelievably... still, I would not sit down to play, until one of my friends stopped a sales assistant and said, "Can she have a go?"  The sales person said yes, took away the sign on the keys and invited me to sit.  I played the exposition of a Dohnanyi Rhapsody, then stopped and admired the touch of the Bosendorfer.  The sales assistant then said, "Please feel free to play on any of our pianos"

!!!              !!!

Still, apart from that Bosendorfer, which I cannot afford, I have not found any piano which would tempt me to replace my current instrument.

[pianonut]

in highschool i once worked in a piano store.  what's really intimidating to a customer is to have two sales people running at him/her at the same time.  also, if you follow them around too closely, they tend to leave.  the fellow who owned the store was much more relaxed.  he knew that people like to try out pianos and see the differences, and that it takes time.  not to rush.

i think what would not be effective is a sales person who asks point blank questions like, "how much money do you want to spend"  instead of first going through the reasons why he/she wants a piano, the various ways they are put together, the various sounds, and then being kind about a payment plan.  some stores are too snooty, and lose possible customers thinking everyone is either rich or poor.

[dinosaurtales]

I remember shopping for pianos.  I found quite a variation between stores, salespersonnel, and knowledge.  Here in Portland, the piano stores are generally awful - The folks that carry Steinways act like they are god's gift to pianos, and piano stores.  They are "funny" about having you play them, and none of the pianos are prept to play anyway!  When i inquired about when they could be in a condition to play (that is, tuned and and at least modestly voiced - Steinways barely come built at all from the factory - they are awful) - i was told that if I would buy one they could "make it whatever I wanted".  I wasn't really up to spending $55K+ on a pig in  a poke, so I went to the dealers for Bosendorfers. They let me play, but "watched" me closely, like I was going to tuck the piano under my arm and walk out of the store with it - weird.  they were also full of crap - I got no actual info oiut of them but a lot of "this is the best piano I have ever seen!" remarks, which are just stupuid.  The dealers here that carry Mason and Hamlin are down right rude.  When I told them I was just starting my shopping and wasn't ready to buy, they acted like it was a waste of their time to have me around, and acted like they wanted me to leave as soon as I could get around to it. 

So I went out of town.  Seattle - Classical Grands was a wonderful place, and they had Bluthners, and now they have Steingraebers - They are extremely knowledgeable and great to work with. 

Then I went to Salt Lake City - Baldassin Performance Pianos - that's where I ultimately bought my piano - Rick and Cindy were great to work with - Rick is a technician, and can answer any questions you can dream up.  I played for hours and basically broke in a 228 (which I couldn't afford - darn it!) but I got the 212!! 

So the old addage "the customer is always right" carries some weight - because a lousy experience in a piano store with "snooty" or "uninformed" sales people will likely not result in a sale if you are serious about your piano.

[Axtremus]

DinosaurTales,

Thanks for sharing your shopping experiences. It's a good read!

[stormx]

Hi!!

I have just bought a digital piano, so i had some interactions with sales people. I finally choosed the PRIVIA PX-300 from CASIO, and i am happy with it (being a beginner, i did not want to spend a lot of money, so the CASIO was a good solution for me  ).

But let us return to sales people.
They are usually liers, IMHO. Of course, there are exceptions, but the majority will say anything in order to achieve the sale. I will give you an example to clarify my point of view:
I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. As you probably know, Marta Argerich is argentinian. Altough she resides in Europe, she visits Argentina frequently.

In one of the music shops i visited, where only digitals are sold (not acoustic), i asked the sale person about the CASIO PRIVIA line. I also asked her (it was a woman) an advice about the best option to go (digital or acoustic).

Her answer was something like this:
"Digital is of course the way to go !!!" Everybody is selling their acoustic piano and replacing it by a digital one !!!" 

And here comes the funniest part:
"You know, when Marta Argerich is in Buenos Aires, she practices in our digital pianos !!"

Can you imagine Marta Argerich playing on a CASIO digital piano when practicing for a concert? 

 

[jr11]

But let us return to sales people.
They are usually liers, IMHO. Of course, there are exceptions, but the majority will say anything in order to achieve the sale.

It is disappointing to hear that has been your experience, both for yourself and for the sales person. Savvy sales people know that the key to success is by building repoire to acheive repeat business. Happy customers tell their friends, and eventually trade up. Going for the quick sale is short-sighted. Customers feel duped, and will spread bad press that will eventually mean the end of that dealer.

[pianodude]

In general, a sales person must lie in order to sell since most products are not perfect. Not telling about the quality of the products is OK, however, I do not like if they behave like a car salesman who likes to rip people off. I will walk out from the store if I find out their pricing is outregeously off and then tell as many people as possible about that store.