Liszt technical exercises?

[minhogang]

Aside from book 1 and 9 which I think are very beneficial, there are some.. questionable material I find here. Scales, thirds, fourths, and sixths in contrary motion, (also chromatic) chord-scales with very unusual fingering that would take weeks to play it correctly, exercises based off the chopin a minor etude, (Why should I play a boring exercise instead of playing the actual etude, and the Godowsky version of the left hand?) etc.

Assuming I would play book 7 of this correctly: https://imslp.org/wiki/Technische_Studien,_S.146_(Liszt,_Franz) What is benefit of learning this? What are the possible benefits of learning all scales in inverted motion? Sure, the last parallel G minor scale spaced by a third at the end of Chopin's ballade 1 would be easier... But is the time invested worth it?

Personally I think practicing finger independence exercises, arpeggios, and scales in octaves for wrists are the only technique exercises needed.

[debussychopin]

It's a free country. Do what pleases you.

[adodd81802]

Heres my thoughts, looking at the bigger scenario.

If you are approached, or have the idea to - create a book that contains exercises to sell and make money,  you are going to
a - try and cover 100s of different exercises that haven't been done before to make it look like a comprehensive guide
b - make the hardest and strangest exercises you can in order to make the pianist feel inadequate because if they cannot do them initially then there must be something to learn by studying them, making the book seem better than it necessarily is.

That opinion aside, there are a few points. Firstly it may certainly benefit to learn different fingerings, we often find ourselves, when learning pieces, not always able to use the optimal fingering, and have to accomadate when required, which can feel umcomfortable, if not used to.

And second, it has been stated, that Liszt was known to apply the same initial scale fingering 123/1234/123 etc to every scale, including black key scales, advising that if you can master those, you will no longer feel any discomfort with thumbs on black keys or white inbetween. I imagine he may have had a similar thought process when developing the exercises. Honestly back in his day, his technique was basically second to none, but from his own admission he practiced ALOT.

[boxjuice]

I doubt the studies were written as a gambit to make money, given that they were written in his 50s and after the concert tour in his 20s and 30s he became incredibly wealthy and never charged for a performance again, nor for teaching or for his masterclasses. I doubt somebody who didnt charge for participation in his masterclasses (which, given that Liszt was the most famous person in Europe during his time and the most celebrated pianist, i imagine would bring in ALOT of money) would compromise his musical integrity for the bit of money these studies would bring in.

I think Liszt's philosophy was that you have to practice every single scenario that could possibly pop up. If you want to be a good sight reader, such is necessary since when sightreading you dont have a month to practice a tricky passage. Also, the easier you find the technical aspect of it, the more mental space you have for the reading aspect. As for the weird fingerings, i would imagine that using your fingers in weird ways increases your general finger independence.