Pitch

[dundrod]

I am piano beginner about to do Intiial exam - I am trying to test my pitch skills but usally fail all the time - this has detuned me somewhat - have read you require this skill from birth - just wondering is there any hope for me at all - could I even develope my ear in any little way?
thank you.

[adodd81802]

I believe there is 2 categories, from birth it has been advised is the best way to develop but not impossible from early ages.

Firstly Perfect pitch, is the ability, as you mentioned to hear any note and be able to tell you what that note is. This can be developed further to hear a bunch of notes either in unison or a melody and tell you what they are, and developed even further to hear an extract of music and repeat it back, like you've read them a sentence from a book.

This is usually the one that is developed very early age almost like a language in itself.

The second is relative pitch, and that is to be able to hear a base note and work off it to help you hear other notes. This can be worked on at later ages and is usually what is required when doing piano exams, so when you say about de-tuning, I don't think this would cause you a problem.

Unfortunately the only answer really is practicing and remembering how the notes sound. For me, I use pieces to help stay in tune and remember notes, e.g. recalling the first Bach Prelude helps me remember what Middle C sounds like and a how array of notes that are in that piece.

Scales and Arpeggios I believe help as you cover the whole keyboard, but ultimately get someone, or go online and practice, maybe try and find relative pitch exercises first.

[keypeg]

I am piano beginner about to do Initial exam - I am trying to test my pitch skills

I cannot imagine that any exam would require the ability to hear and name specific pitches such as A or C, going by ear alone, not for advanced students and definitely not for beginners on piano. Can you explain what you know about this part of the exam?

The most useful skill is relative pitch, by common consensus.  Now there are tests where the examiner will play a few notes together and ask you to play them back, or sing them back.  Usually you are given the starting note.  But the way to go at this is through relative pitch.  You hear how far the other notes go up and down; whether they're climbing a scale or arpeggio.  Your musical sense may come into play.  If you hear a favourite song, or as a child learned children's songs, there is some way that you hear that song so that you can sing along.  You use that too.

[dundrod]

Thank you ever so much for your very adequate advice to me - I am doing the Trinity Intial exam and I am not concerned about my pitch ability for it - as you said maybe in grade1 I may be asked

(the examiner will play a few notes together and ask you to play them back, or sing them back.  Usually you are given the starting note.  But the way to go at this is through relative pitch.)

I am now 66yrs and have just started the piano in the last year - I have completed grade 2 theory and now working on Grade 3 - Having very large hands is a problem but I try to overcome any hindrance - I struggle a little learning pieces but I do try hard to keep going.
Thank you ever so much and taking the time to help me - very much appreciated

[keypeg]

Out age difference is four years, and the main hat I wear is as a student.  I'm not familiar with Trinity.  I studied violin as an adult student first for a few years, and did the grade 1 RCM exam.  There was a play-back, sing-back portion which for me was easy since I'm a natural singer.  I found out that there is a syllabus which lists everything, and eventually I bought one.  I also phoned the RCM once with a question and they were quite helpful.  So I imagine that Trinity probably also has resources to orient you.  I don't suppose you have a teacher?

[dundrod]

Yes I have a excellent teacher who is trying to help me - I always thought pitch was starting off in a quiet note and endinging on a louder note and that is still very much in my head - I played C major this morning to try and detect the pitch sounds I just cannot get it into my head that the highest C note is so weak in my mind it should be at a full pitch I am just mixed up and to be honest I do not want to hassle my teacher who is trying to help me in other areas of my piano playing - I have got so much help from this forum already might even become a gold member!lol

[dundrod]

Yes I have a excellent teacher who is trying to help me - I always thought pitch was starting off in a quiet note and endinging on a louder note and that is still very much in my head - I played C major this morning to try and detect the pitch sounds I just cannot get it into my head that the highest C note is so weak in my mind it should be at a full pitch I am just mixed up and to be honest I do not want to hassle my teacher who is trying to help me in other areas of my piano playing - I have got so much help from this forum already might even become a gold member!lol

[keypeg]

If you are preparing for the Trinity exam, then your teacher should be preparing you for every part of it, including this part you are asking about.  You are not "bothering" him by asking.  First, it's his job. Second, most teachers delight in their students' interest and efforts, and are discouraged by the fact that so many students don't show either interest or real effort.  They are both qualities that energize teachers, and give meaning to their work. 

[avanchnzel]

If you are trying to remember how the pitches of C major sound, don't try to remember the individual pitches but perhaps the overall 'colour' of the scale. Some people associate 'colours' with different keys, so that could be useful to you, although it won't be entirely relevant to that component of your exam. Some people also associate colours with different notes, which could be more helpful.

I can't help you further as I have perfect pitch so my approach is different. (I don't see colours in keys or notes. Just hamburgers.)

[keypeg]

If you are trying to remember how the pitches of C major sound, don't try to remember the individual pitches but perhaps the overall 'colour' of the scale.

If I were a beginner, I would have no idea what to do with that, because I wouldn't be able to figure out how to hear colour.  Actually, although I can hear such things, colour holds no meaning for me.

[louispodesta]

Yo, as we say in Texas, am I missing something here?  When I took beginning theory, all they taught us was how to sing and play a scale, triad (major and minor) and then a seventh chord.  AND! there was supposed to be some kind of Solfeggio training associated with this process, e.g.  (Do, Re Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, Do).

Per the OP, "I have an excellent teacher. . ."  No offense, but for those who have posted here before me, I don't really think so.

So, what is most likely happening is some new pedagogical semantic weirdness on the part of the teacher and also the entity that hosts the exam.  On point, Basic music theory is universal (I have seen and read it all), but I have never heard of "Pitch Recognition."

Therefore, per the OP, (and I am 65 years young with a Degree in Music) I recommend the following:

1)  Get thou to a traditional music theory teacher, hopefully an Organist.  These people know every permutation ever imagined, composed, or performed in music.

2)  As far as your teacher is concerned, tell them thanks, but no thanks.  At your age, you should have no time for this glorified falderal.  Tangentially (time after time on this website), the problem discussed did not lay with the student.  The problem (not "issue") was the teacher!

Additionally, I recommend for the OP, and most others:

1)  The Berklee School of Music in Boston, MA, USA, has one of the finest Jazz matriculation programs in the world.  What is not normally known is their OnLine school (well over 50,000 students enrolled worldwide).

As part of the multitude of many courses they offer are Music Theory, Harmony, and Ear Training (which I have successfully matriculated).  It is somewhat pricey, but the teachers are phenomenal.  Each lesson is taught on a weekly basis and is "self-paced," which is a very big deal!

https://online.berklee.edu/music-theory-harmony-and-ear-training

2)  Per the OP, if you need any further advice, please do not hesitate to contact me by PM.  And most of all, do not forget that the study of basic music theory is SUPPOSED to be directly associated with a competent level of music performance.

3)  Speaking as a pianist/philosopher, the epistemology associated with this type of study requires no more than a level of instruction associated with any pubescent pre-teen or teenager.  That holds true if the individual who matriculates is GIVEN THE PROPER INSTRUCTION!

Good luck to you.

[dundrod]

Whah thanks - I am taking a little time myself to discover the different pitch in notes - really appreciate all the posts to try and help me.

[louispodesta]

Whah thanks - I am taking a little time myself to discover the different pitch in notes - really appreciate all the posts to try and help me.

Once again (since before the time of Bach), a scale degree, in whatever key one is in, has an "arithmetic" relationship to another scale degree.

That means:  if you strike the first note of any scale, then that note (NOT PITCH!) has a further corresponding relationship with anything that is to follow.

I could go on and on.  However, your responses suggest the fact that you have been "Brainwashed" into thinking that this very non-traditional nomenclature of "Pitch Recognition" is the norm for standard music theory matriculation.  It is not!

Accordingly, then there is really nothing the rest of us can realistically do for your, other than wish you a very soft landing when you realize you have be mislead, and then some.

[dogperson]

Accordingly, then there is really nothing the rest of us can realistically do for your, other than wish you a very soft landing when you realize you have be mislead, and then some.

Dundrod,
Louis does not speak for this forum, so his statement 'there is really nothing the rest of us can realistically do for you'  is not true.  Please discuss with your teacher and find out exactly what will be expected on the exam, and then come back if you have additional questions. 

[louispodesta]

Once again, everyone of us who has formally matriculated in late 20th Century Music Schools has studied traditional music theory pedagogy.  "Pitch Recognition" (and I have the Schonberg book, and also studied Scheinrick) is not one of them.

When I entitled my video:  "Your Piano Teacher Taught You Wrong," I was very apprehensive about using the "W" word.  Then three years later, Dr. Clive Brown, of the University of Leeds, (who has endorsed my video) gave an interview to WQXR Radio of New York, wherein he used the very same word.

https://www.wqxr.org.  Then please enter Clive Brown in the search engine in the empty block on the upper right hand corner.  Next, please click on the "recommended' links.

The point is:  what all of us can contribute is:  1) Yes we have an emotional bond to our teachers, but:

2)  When we are in our 60's, and it doesn't make sense what we are being supposedly taught, then it is time to put it aside and search for another teacher.  And, as I have recommended, one with a very strong traditional theory background.

3)  Trust me, (once again) music theory is not rocket science.  The average musicians of the 18th and 19th centuries never made it past what we commonly refer to as Secondary School, and they got it!

Accordingly, your teacher is not misleading you.  In my opinion, your teacher is lying to you!

[keypeg]

 Please discuss with your teacher and find out exactly what will be expected on the exam, and then come back if you have additional questions. 

Good advice, and good starting point.

[louispodesta]

All be intentioned well advice (genuinely expressed), that is not the way a real life piano lesson experience works.  Accordingly, this very well intentioned matriculate has a teacher who knew what the rules were/are (per the exam) from the very beginning.

To argue the contrary, would posit that this individual's teacher was:  1)  Totally inexperienced, or

2) Someone, who is playing with this student (like a pretheral of teachers and coaches) who play games with a student (out of their favor) in order to get them to eventually quit!

Trust me, I have had it done to me.

3)  On point, the bottom line for any student who posts here is:

Is your teacher a daily student (him or herself) of piano pedagogy?  That means:  when you the (OP) come in for your lesson, does your teacher just go through the motions, or do they break everything down and then get to the specifics?