Etudes and exercises to develop technique

[ramy1989]

Hi I am an intermediate level piano player who is looking to improve his finger technique. I tried some of Brahms 51 exercises and they were helpful. Do you guys have other suggestions?

[pianoville]

If you are looking for etudes i would highly suggest the Chopin etudes. They help you develop dexterity like nothing else! I have done 3 of them and my technique has already developed! I will probably do all of them to polish my technique. Btw if you decide to do them you have to learn op 25 no 6, the thirds etude. After playing that one all thirds turn inte a piece of cake.

[ted]

Improvise your own. Among the advantages are the ability to tailor them to your specific needs and build keyboard vocabulary which produces the sounds you enjoy rather than those people say you ought to like.

[dogperson]

Improvise your own. Among the advantages are the ability to tailor them to your specific needs and build keyboard vocabulary which produces the sounds you enjoy rather than those people say you ought to like.

I will admit I have a negative mindset to 'exercises' for exercises sake.... so I make up exercises, with the assistance of my teacher, from the repertoire I am learning.  Chopin fioritura?  Exercises using that section of the score.   It seems much more relevant to me, and the result is something that is immediately integrated to make the repertoire better. 

If you are looking for repertoire that has an 'exercise' property, the repertoire abounds.  Look at each of the etudes for what skills are needed;  Debussy Arabasque 1 for polyrhythms, etc.   

[danielo]

I agree that the Chopin etudes are really worth looking at. My finger dexterity has definitely improved, I can play things more cleanly than before, it really is working! I have only tried a handful of them: it took me around 6 months to perfect Op 25 No. 1, The Aeolian Harp, but I am so proud of it! I didn't think I would be able to when I started. And it's helped enormously with stretches in the left hand, and with my general left handed dexterity - it's translated into other pieces.
I'm now working on Op 10 No.1 (yes it's a monster, and I'm only able to play it at about half speed, but again, I'm finding it easier and learning it more quickly just through spending all that time on the Op 25 No 1.
The Chopin Etudes have the other advantage of being beautiful pieces that you just want to play, and it's a great motivation to keep practising.

[cranston53]

Czerny's 40 Daily Exercises - Op 337.

Great fun and challenging.

[louispodesta]

Hi I am an intermediate level piano player who is looking to improve his finger technique. I tried some of Brahms 51 exercises and they were helpful. Do you guys have other suggestions?

The Chair of the Keyboard Division at Juilliard is a former student of the late Dorothy Taubman.  Her former assistant, Edna Golandsky, is still very much alive.

Accordingly, those who have not heard of these two individuals (whose sole specialty was/is piano technique), should avail themselves of such.

Every, and I mean every single one of the music department chairs of "any" music school in the world, has listened to/viewed the Taubman/Golandsky Videotapes.

Secondly, my coach is Dr. Thomas Mark (a former Taubman Practice Coach).  He has taken their non-exercises/etude/scales/arpeggios approach and integrated it with the widely known "Alexander Technique."

This man (a degreed Philosopher) delineates an epistemology (detailed thought process) associated with a carefully choreographed whole body approach to playing the piano.  www.pianomap.com

So, you can beat your head against the wall, like I have and millions of others before you (who have played thousands of hours of worthless exercises/studies/Etudes) et al. "or" you can join the rest of us in a scientific logical study of the kinesiology associated with the playing of this great instrument.

[debussychopin]

^usually I just disregard your posts but when there are younger or people asking questions wanting help and are highly impressionable I have to intervene to say your comments are highly irresponsible and dangerous in their absolutism and inanity. Please care to delineate out what you say to show some care bc at this point your MO usually is nothing but..just some show-and-tell of some worldly labels you may have achieved (or not..who really knows.  Also I 've never seen you play anything resembling of high musicality or technique anyways)  

This post is more for others impressionable  , listening in (to protect them)..so I dont really concern much what you have to reply if any..im sure usually typically you'll just keep doing this unfortunately
Thanks

[adodd81802]

The Chair of the Keyboard Division at Juilliard is a former student of the late Dorothy Taubman.  Her former assistant, Edna Golandsky, is still very much alive.

Accordingly, those who have not heard of these two individuals (whose sole specialty was/is piano technique), should avail themselves of such.

Every, and I mean every single one of the music department chairs of "any" music school in the world, has listened to/viewed the Taubman/Golandsky Videotapes.

Secondly, my coach is Dr. Thomas Mark (a former Taubman Practice Coach).  He has taken their non-exercises/etude/scales/arpeggios approach and integrated it with the widely known "Alexander Technique."

This man (a degreed Philosopher) delineates an epistemology (detailed thought process) associated with a carefully choreographed whole body approach to playing the piano.  www.pianomap.com

So, you can beat your head against the wall, like I have and millions of others before you (who have played thousands of hours of worthless exercises/studies/Etudes) et al. "or" you can join the rest of us in a scientific logical study of the kinesiology associated with the playing of this great instrument.

Hello Louis,

I have watched all of the Virtuoso Taubman DVDSs. I found them interesting, definitely and gives you things to think about.

I don't find however, that they provide some ground breaking theory on practical piano playing as you so often suggest. I also didn't see any secret that they provided that other logical teachers cannot comprehend, that to summarize is simply this - playing with the whole body.

I found the Videos to be in a very sales-pitch format, guarding their 'technique' almost in a Scientology-like fashion. Here's the general overview of what I find in the videos

1. "Accomplished" pianist with obvious problem or tension
2. They play the piece and the problem is highlighted
3. Taubman provides some groundbreaking insight that seems to instantly relieve the problem.

They also overuse words that are very appealing to people that are struggling - easy, effortless, when in all honesty learning any skill will never be these things.

Let me tell you now, whether incorrectly OR correctly, learning the piano is, and will feel like a difficult skill. Both practically and mentally. It is stressful, it is time consuming and you will continuously hit brick walls in your playing.

This is because learning the piano is not a linear task. There is no one-size-fits-all method of learning. I honestly find it offensive the way you preach such a thing and seemingly completely dismiss other methods. Are we yet to see your debut in Carnegie hall?

When you strip down the Taubman ideology,
A - It's not even their ideas, it's based on theories of the Alexander 'technique' simply the method of incorporating your whole body and focussing on rotation?
B - It's not ground breaking - it points out things that we already know, but may not consciously be aware of
C - It's obvious. To any educated pianist, the theory does not teach anything you should not already be putting into practice, if you have a sensible teacher - to play comfortably, without tension, to use your whole body, to use suitable fingering e.t.c

Dorothy Taubman, was clearly a good teacher who could seemingly give good pianists things to consciously think about and often resolve obvious problems.

Strange, there is very few performances of hers or Golandsky. I would love to know if you have any resources that I could see? Not 20 second extracts here and there of famous pieces.

[louispodesta]

Thank you for your well-thought out reply.  Accordingly, I list the following three points:

1)  You, nor anyone else who posts here, can list (absent Alan Fraser) any other modern technique pedagogues other than Dorothy Taubman, Edna Golandsky, and my coach Dr. Thomas Mark.

You can say what you want about Taubman and Golandsky, but the fact remains that the overwhelming majority (and I know the author!) of the American University Music Department Keyboard Division Chairs have Dr. Mark's book ("What Every Pianist Needs To Know About The Body") in their own personal libraries.

2)  Secondly, I stated in my original response:  ["that he has taken their non-exercises/etude/scales/arpeggios approach and integrated it with the widely known "Alexander Technique.

This man (a degreed Philosopher) delineates an epistemology (detailed thought process) associated with a carefully choreographed whole body approach to playing the piano.  www.pianomap.com"]

3)  The very first thing that Thomas teaches in a coaching session is that the reason he has spent the better part of the last 25 years of his life on this is that "one size does not fit all," which is the Taubman/Golandsky approach.  He analyzes each and every students particular morphology, and then goes from there.

So, instead of taking the "Troll" approach, why don't just one of you, just one, take a plane to Portlandia and sit through the best piano lesson you have ever had in your life.  Until I actually experienced it myself, I did not believe it either.  Or better yet, fly the man in for one of his seminars, wherein he teaches private coaching sessions on the side.

Conversely, recommending centuries old exercises, etudes, scales and arpeggios (along with millions before you):  well we will just see where that gets you.  I tell you what.

Why don't you transport yourselves into the far future, and then tell me that you will find piano teachers advising students on what 19th century technical regimen they should pursue.  Get real! 

I took the leap years ago by flying five hours each way to Dr. Mark's studio for a five hour lesson the first time, and two and a half hours the second (with videotape).  It was an experience for a lifetime.
 

[lostinidlewonder]

I wouldn't suggest studying Chopin etudes to acquire technique, this means if you haven't had some experience with the technical requirements of the Chopin etudes it would be probably inefficient for you to study them. Technique is developed through years of experience and with many many pieces. I hate the idea of mimicking movements a teacher might want to see from you without it feeling natural, as a teacher I like to see a student play more correct rather than exactly in a way I want. Forcing technical concepts generally causes students to be too consciously aware of their actions while doing so and thus their movements are not natural, build what comes naturally, improve this with many examples and your technique will be solid, musical instruments tend to make fools of those who merely mimic without really understanding.

Being aware of technical concepts you didn't know of however is important, it is not bad to demonstrate an ideal and have a student attempt to recreate it but if you push a student too deep into pieces with too many technical movements they are unfarmiliar with you will just frustrate them and make lessons inefficient. The duty of a good teacher is to provide repertoire which gives the student something they can consider and complete efficiently not a Mount Everest of work. Asking randomly what etudes to study is an impossible question to answer accurately without knowing your ability at the piano personally, we can give random suggestions but really it is not respecting how important repertoire selection actually is nor the process a teacher would go through with you as a student to select appropriate works.

[cuberdrift]

Isn't technique simply a matter of finding the best physical movement to achieve a desired "sound"?

That being said, I've always wondered if applying this ideology to actual pieces instead of playing mindlessly through finger exercises would do the trick.

[adodd81802]

Isn't technique simply a matter of finding the best physical movement to achieve a desired "sound"?

That being said, I've always wondered if applying this ideology to actual pieces instead of playing mindlessly through finger exercises would do the trick.

I believe this to be true. Finger exercises are a red-herring, as if you already posses the motions required for a technical piece, you're going to put it down to the exercises. They may help reinforce a correct technique (also reinforce a bad one) But you hear pianists often say for certain pieces it's like riding a bike, there's a correct way of doing something and it feels correct too, and no confusion over how it's got to be done.

Someone such as Cortot on the other hand seemed all about fingering / fingers and technical exercises, and although he made it work to an extent, you often hear how many mistakes he made and changing many fingerings to make the fingers work harder rather than the full on technique.

[stevensk]

Isn't technique simply a matter of finding the best physical movement to achieve a desired "sound"?

That being said, I've always wondered if applying this ideology to actual pieces instead of playing mindlessly through finger exercises would do the trick.

-Yes! I completely agree!

[feddera]

Isn't technique simply a matter of finding the best physical movement to achieve a desired "sound"?

I strongly disagree with this mentality. I mean... kind of. The physical condition of the hands and fingers plays a very big part in what one is able to do at a piano. If your hands aren't developed, you need to use larger and more inefficient movements to play. This is also my biggest issue with the Taubman philosophy: they completely disregard any need for physical conditioning.

[anamnesis]

I strongly disagree with this mentality. I mean... kind of. The physical condition of the hands and fingers plays a very big part in what one is able to do at a piano. If your hands aren't developed, you need to use larger and more inefficient movements to play. This is also my biggest issue with the Taubman philosophy: they completely disregard any need for physical conditioning.

You cannot conflate physical strengthening and conditioning with motor skill learning.  Although they both take time for the adaptations to occur, they require separate distinct types of biological adaptations, meaning they don't require the same sort of challenges that force them to occur.

Also  it's actually the larger movements more often than not then what happens at the hands and fingers that is underdeveloped and unrefined.  If your hands are capable of doing the motion where you can pretend to pluck a fly out of the air like a zen master, you can hold a milk jug, and you can dribble a basketball, your hands are more than developed enough (unless your are hyper-mobile at certain joints).  

[feddera]

You cannot conflate physical strengthening and conditioning with motor skill learning.

I know you can't, which is my point!

they require separate distinct types of biological adaptations, meaning they don't require the same sort of challenges that force them to occur.

Yes, I completely agree! Which again, is my whole point. Focusing exclusively on "movement" and "relaxation" will NOT develop your hands.

Also  it's actually the larger movements more often than not then what happens at the hands and fingers that is underdeveloped and unrefined.  If your hands are capable of doing the motion where you can pretend to pluck a fly out of the air like a zen master, you can hold a milk jug, and you can dribble a basketball, your hands are more than developed enough (unless your are hyper-mobile at certain joints).

This might be true for some people, but it certainly was not in my case. I was in the "movement-camp" for the first 8 years of my playing. The reason I feel so strongly about this, is that this way of thinking lead me into a complete dead end where I simply could not progress any further. 

[cuberdrift]

Then it's both ways, then.

I suffered a really deep cut in my RH point finger once and it's kind of weaker than my other fingers so it's hard for me to play scales or trills evenly.

Even so, I can still manage to make those scales or trills work by training my point finger to move in a synchronized manner with my other fingers even if it isn't as strong as it ought to be, hence the importance of "movement".

However, strengthening the physical condition of the fingers, hands, wrists, arms (or heck, the entire body) would probably help, of course.

So maybe it works both ways, really.

But then I think the quality of sound is really mainly about the "attack" or "gesture". Of course, having good "conditioning" may be necessary for these movements.

[feddera]

Then it's both ways, then.

I agree that it's both! Sorry to hear about your finger. I broke my left hand index finger before I even started playing piano. Thankfully I've never had any problems with it in spite of that.

But then I think the quality of sound is really mainly about the "attack" or "gesture". Of course, having good "conditioning" may be necessary for these movements.

This I fully agree with also. What I mean by "conditioning" is mainly two things:

1) The ability of the fingers to play without any collapsing knuckles
2) The flexibility of each individual finger

With flexibility I don't necessarily mean side-to-side(although that's important too for large chords), but rather, flexibility in the key-striking direction. I've been doing exercises targeted at both points away from the piano for about a year now, and I am beyond pleased with the results so far.

[samdm93]

Alfred Publishing have a wonderful series of three books entitled "Burgmüller, Czerny & Hanon: Piano Studies Selected for Technique and Musicality", which includes both technical exercises (like those out of Hanon's Virtuoso Pianist), as well as actual pieces of music in etude form (Burgmuller). These books are arranged into appropriate chapters and are diverse in the studies they provide. I'd highly recommend because if you're like me, 'technical' exercises such as Hanon's well known technique book just bore the hell out of me and I'd much prefer to play an actual piece of music that develops technique rather than just scales and variations of.