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Topic: Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help (Read 3612 times)

rmbarbosa

Sr. Member
Posts: 453

Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help

on: November 16, 2016, 06:00:25 PM

Hi!
I would be very gratefull if you could help me in this doubt:
To play this study Cortot gives some preliminary exercises, namely thr cromatic scale played with
the fingers 3-4-3, 4-5-4 and 5-4-5.
He says: "the crossing of a lower finger either over or under an upper one should be prepared according to the principle of an absolute legato... the fingers rather gliding over the keys than actually striking them..with a perfect steadiness of the hand".
I tried but at least for me to attain a "perfect steadiness of the hand" while I pass my 5 over or under my 4º finger, for example, is quite impossible in absolute legato, without a rotation of my hand. The only way to keep my hand steady is to slide from the left to the right or from the right to the left. as we do in the passing "over" of the thumb in the scales. But if I do so then I cant achieve an absolute legato... How to do this?
Another problem: when ascending it is easy to play legato passing over, but when descending the only "decent" way is passing over in same keys and under in other keys.
Thank you for your help
Rui

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adodd81802

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1115

Re: Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help

Reply #1 on: November 16, 2016, 08:01:48 PM

What are your thoughts on Cortot editions of anything?

Have you used Cortot before? I have looked through a lot of his Chopin pieces and exercises, and i'm not sure i'm not that keen on them, especially in the use of Chopin Etudes... Maybe i'm wrong, but particularly my issue is it feels like he creates the exercises for the fingering that he wants to use which is often drastically different from the conventional fingerings.

Many have commented he changed the fingering to make the fingers do more work then what would usually be required with better technique, what do you think?

I must admit however, I do find in this etude, bringing the 5th under 4th on white notes very difficult, I don't think I have long enough fingers to pull that off... maybe just me.

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mjames

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2557

Re: Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help

Reply #2 on: November 16, 2016, 08:07:41 PM

Ignore his exercises, ignore his fingerings, ignore his advice on technique, get a different edition, and forget that his even exist in the first place. If you follow this advice then your learning process will improve drastically.

You're welcome.

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vaniii

Full Member
Posts: 246

Re: Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help

Reply #3 on: November 16, 2016, 08:19:05 PM

Buy Paderewski edition; it's expensive but exceptionally clear and the authority on things Chopin.

Schirmer edition is more accessible if only for more markings on the page, giveing some insight into interpretation.

Peters edition is more accessible full stop. The acceptable tempo marking is more lenient, meaning a performable rendition would be closer to you.

I don't trust Cortot; it feels like a miracle cure. So much of it is lost in transition from the mind of the author to written on the page; there is a subtext here that would be lost without a teacher and simply practicing chromatic scales with unconventional fingering.

All these exercises are great, but the problem here is that you are still trying to play music when you should be figuring out the geography of the keyboard, what your hands have to do to traverse it; all this, in a relaxed manner.

The best piece of advice I was given, was to "play in slow motion, exactly what I need to do 'at speed' ...", it does not matter the tempo of the piece, the physical actions should remain the same.

Relaxed.

Keep this slow, and don't use pedal until you can create a finger legato. Don't cling to the chordal strikes (play them staccatissimo), they are almost flippant. When you do eventually add the pedal in, this will take care of the chords.

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brogers70

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Sr. Member
Posts: 1764

Re: Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help

Reply #4 on: November 16, 2016, 10:42:18 PM

I've looked at Cortot and, except for a few alternate fingerings that I liked for Op. 25/6, did not find his exercises helpful at all.

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adodd81802

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1115

Re: Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help

Reply #5 on: November 17, 2016, 09:55:16 AM

I'm glad there is a consensus on this RE Cortot (no offence to the man.)

Interestingly Paul Barton is a very good pianist, and I have heard on many of his videos how he advocates some Cortot exercises, particularly in this Etude.

Nevertheless! go the fingerings Chopin intended (one of the few pieces he wrote the fingerings for every note I believe)

And regarding exercises, i'd just work on the chromatic scale alone with 3/4/5, as ultimately that needs to be more than proficient to do it with the accompliment notes.

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