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Topic: Prelude in C# Minor fingering..  (Read 4124 times)

Offline salim

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Prelude in C# Minor fingering..
on: November 22, 2016, 03:56:25 PM
I found that I have two ways (that are comfortable for me) to play the chords, but I'm wondering if I should stick to how it is on the sheets (one way I can play it) or the other way I tried out. Both are comfortable but the way on the sheets take a little longer to get used to (but should allow for me to have more control over the piece later.. I think.).. So for the opening, one way would be left hand E G# E and right hand C# G# C# (how it is on the sheet) with the other way being left hand E G# C# and right hand E G# C#.. would following the sheet be the best thing to do (later on perhaps it would prove to be the better fingering)? Thanks in advance ^^
 

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Prelude in C# Minor fingering..
Reply #1 on: November 23, 2016, 12:01:56 AM
I found that I have two ways (that are comfortable for me) to play the chords, but I'm wondering if I should stick to how it is on the sheets (one way I can play it) or the other way I tried out. Both are comfortable but the way on the sheets take a little longer to get used to (but should allow for me to have more control over the piece later.. I think.).. So for the opening, one way would be left hand E G# E and right hand C# G# C# (how it is on the sheet) with the other way being left hand E G# C# and right hand E G# C#.. would following the sheet be the best thing to do (later on perhaps it would prove to be the better fingering)? Thanks in advance ^^
 
1)  If you have a hand the size of a Tarantula, (like Rachmaninoff), then it is no big deal to play the score as written.

2)  However, if you have a hand like mine, which can barely reach a ninth, then I recommend what was taught to me by mentor the late pianist Earl Wild.

3)  In his Memoir he stated that virtually every concert pianist he had come across in the early to middle 20th century had re-arranged chord note placement with a fingering more suitable to the morphology of their particular hand.

4)  So, what you are suggesting is not only okay, it was commonplace among virtually all concert pianists;  that is before the "Urtext Mob" (as derided by the late pianist Jorge Bolet), came along after World War II and started their musicological non-authentic Conservatory-based pedagogy of "meticulous attention to the score."

5) Accordingly, I also use the same note re-distribution for the Brahms Intermezzo Op, 118 No. 2 in the "Piu Lento" section (measures 57-64).

Finally, per my video ("Your Piano Teacher Taught You Wrong"), I enclose a link to Rachmaninoff's original recording of this piece:



Congratulations on not only your insight, but also on your courage for you post.  All the best, and do not hesitate to contact me by PM, if further guidance is desired.


Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Prelude in C# Minor fingering..
Reply #2 on: November 23, 2016, 12:52:41 AM
If you are troubled because you don't like the hands overlapping (crossing thumbs, in particular), this is something  that one gets used to.. It will also give you better control of 'voicing'.

If you are troubled Because you can't reach an octave easily, then your alternative  approach (that you mention) may be your only way..But. when you get to the last page and a half, your alternate method can no longer apply - that is, if you want to play all the notes in the score.
4'33"

Offline salim

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Re: Prelude in C# Minor fingering..
Reply #3 on: November 23, 2016, 05:41:41 PM
1)  If you have a hand the size of a Tarantula, (like Rachmaninoff), then it is no big deal to play the score as written.

2)  However, if you have a hand like mine, which can barely reach a ninth, then I recommend what was taught to me by mentor the late pianist Earl Wild.

3)  In his Memoir he stated that virtually every concert pianist he had come across in the early to middle 20th century had re-arranged chord note placement with a fingering more suitable to the morphology of their particular hand.

4)  So, what you are suggesting is not only okay, it was commonplace among virtually all concert pianists;  that is before the "Urtext Mob" (as derided by the late pianist Jorge Bolet), came along after World War II and started their musicological non-authentic Conservatory-based pedagogy of "meticulous attention to the score."

5) Accordingly, I also use the same note re-distribution for the Brahms Intermezzo Op, 118 No. 2 in the "Piu Lento" section (measures 57-64).

Finally, per my video ("Your Piano Teacher Taught You Wrong"), I enclose a link to Rachmaninoff's original recording of this piece:



Congratulations on not only your insight, but also on your courage for you post.  All the best, and do not hesitate to contact me by PM, if further guidance is desired.




If you are troubled because you don't like the hands overlapping (crossing thumbs, in particular), this is something  that one gets used to.. It will also give you better control of 'voicing'.

If you are troubled Because you can't reach an octave easily, then your alternative  approach (that you mention) may be your only way..But. when you get to the last page and a half, your alternate method can no longer apply - that is, if you want to play all the notes in the score.

Yep I can reach a ninth comfortably. I ended up sticking with how it was on the sheets because I figured near the end of the piece I wouldn't be able to use the alternative approach haha. Plus since it'll help me get used to having my hands overlap I guess it would be good to improve on that, right? And it feels smoother to play how it is in the sheet now anyway :)

And thanks a lot for Rachmaninoff's original, I've been looking for it!

Thanks a lot for your time to reply guys ^^

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Prelude in C# Minor fingering..
Reply #4 on: November 23, 2016, 11:58:18 PM
Regarding the posts of "themeandvariation" and also "salim:"  It is obvious to me that we are listening to the opinions of true musicians, as opposed to just pianists.

However, once again, my video regarding original performance practice addresses initially (but not in in its entirety) the fact that pianists regularly rolled their chords in both hands.  This was not only for expressive purposes (as taught to me by Dr. Robert Levin, Professor Emeritus at Harvard), but also to reach notes that could not be achieved by less than a very large hand.



Further, (in regards not being able to use reverse fingering and properly voice) there is a very common/standard method of voicing a particular note that is not on the usual fifth finger outer note of the right hand.

In practice, one simply holds the selected melody note, and then quickly (with a soft staccato) strikes the other note or notes, followed by of course a quick release.  And, most importantly, this has to be done with fingers resting (relaxed) on the top of the particular key.

A great piece for this is the Rachmaninoff Prelude Op. 23 No. 4 in D Major whose entire compositional philosophy is based on this particular technique concept (e.g. any of the Chopin Etudes).

Thanks once again to the OP for this great post.
 

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