Learning only certain movements to sonatas...a no-no?

[alex1469]

I have wondered if it is bad practice to learn only one movement of a sonata. I have heard some people say yes, and others say that it is perfectly fine. I am asking this because I once learned the first two movements to Mozart's K545 but I didn't learn the third. For future reference, should one always learn all the movements to a sonata?

[brogers70]

Why not just do what you like? Personally, I never want to learn only some movements of a sonata, but I'm not sure that's a good thing - I might learn a lot by working up a favorite movement of a sonata and ignoring other movements that are too hard or that don't interest me. It's not like there's some piano god who will smite you down because you like the first two movements of the Pastorale Sonata, but don't want to work up the third and fourth.

[vaniii]

They are called movements for a reason.

A single movement can capture a mood enough to move an audience.

As performer, whether or whether not you learn an entire sonata is your choice.

Personally, i would never perform a single movement in a public recital; people are paying to hear Insert_composer's Piece No X, and so what to hear Insert_composer's Piece No X.

For your own enjoyment, do what you like; it is to no consequence.

You can learn a lot from playing an entire sonata.  Sometimes, a theme reoccurs throughout the piece of music that otherwise would not be heard if only a single movement is played.

Bottom line; do what you like.

[lostinidlewonder]

Yes you will go to jail!!!!! Hmmm... I have done concerts where I just did a single movement, hardly anyone cares, I did get one critic cry about it but who really cares about that! There is no rule book stating you must play all movements, personally I don't mind hearing one movement, sometimes hearing all the movements can be way too long and my attention span wanes. Beethoven's 7th symphony middle movement was so popular during its day it was often substituted for other middle movements of other Beethoven symphonies. If you do that today would people have a heart attack? Some might because they are so constrained by their little box.

[alex1469]

Thanks for all the replies. What y'all are saying makes sense to me. I guess that it just doesn't make sense to play music that you don't like. If y'all can, will y'all help me with my question in "student's corner"? It's about trills in Mozarts sonata K280. Thanks!

[alkan2010]

In a concert, I wouldn't never play a single movement of a larger work. I find it normal, however, in 'encore' situations.

[louispodesta]

I have wondered if it is bad practice to learn only one movement of a sonata. I have heard some people say yes, and others say that it is perfectly fine. I am asking this because I once learned the first two movements to Mozart's K545 but I didn't learn the third. For future reference, should one always learn all the movements to a sonata?

Much to the ridicule of those who post here, I am a classical pianist/philosopher with nothing to back it up.  However, as such, I always (as a scientific empiricist) cite a single or multiple sources directly related to my argument.

Regarding the OP, I cite an internationally recognized authority on original performance practice, which is the predicate to the thesis associated with my video.  His name is Dr. Kenneth Hamilton, who is currently the Head of the College of Arts and Sciences at the University of Cardiff.

His New York Times reviewed book, "After the Golden Age," is considered the widely accepted source material on a basic level review of how the piano was originally performed in public in the 19th century.  The point being:

So-called Classical Music (not the phrase used at the time) performances consisted of what today would be considered a "Variety Show."  That means (as described by Dr. Hamilton), there was not one soloist.

A concert would start off with the orchestra playing and intro to an well known Opera, and then a piano soloist would come out and play a movement from either a piano concerto, or absent the orchestra, "A Movement From a Piano Sonata."

Next, a Chamber Music group would come out, and then so forth and so on.

Accordingly, until the late 19th century, it was a rare occurrence for a single pianist to perform an entire program.  And, even if they did so, it no way resembled a "complete work" set of pieces as is performed today.

Hey, if you don't believe his book, Dr. Hamilton is most eager to discuss his work through email.
If so inclined, please contact me by PM.

All the best.

[lostinidlewonder]

Much to the ridicule of those who post here, I am a classical pianist/philosopher with nothing to back it up.

louispodesta please take your medication and/or learn how to respond to a question that is actually asked lol.

[avanchnzel]

louispodesta please take your medication and/or learn how to respond to a question that is actually asked lol.

I like you (in a totally platonic way).

I would be very much inclined to discuss with Professor Hamilton, though not through an intermediary, least of all louispodesta. I would be so bold as to declare that I am personally acquainted with Kenneth Hamilton, having attended one of his private lectures on French music at the turn of the 20th century as well as two of his solo recitals (and yes, we did speak, and on more than one occasion). And I can actually back it up. He's really charming and humorous, and I've always tried to model my programme notes after him.

Maybe I should start calling myself a pianist-philosopher inclined towards the empirical view of epistemology; I would argue that some evidence is better than no evidence at all, especially when one attempts to prove themself a pianist-philosopher. This doesn't even take an ounce of my copious readings of Wittgenstein and Kant to figure out. (And I have read them!)

Anyway in my opinion I would learn a whole sonata; playing just one movement still leaves something to be desired.

[frege]

I like you (in a totally platonic way).

I would be very much inclined to discuss with Professor Hamilton, though not through an intermediary, least of all louispodesta. I would be so bold as to declare that I am personally acquainted with Kenneth Hamilton, having attended one of his private lectures on French music at the turn of the 20th century as well as two of his solo recitals (and yes, we did speak, and on more than one occasion). And I can actually back it up. He's really charming and humorous, and I've always tried to model my programme notes after him.

Maybe I should start calling myself a pianist-philosopher inclined towards the empirical view of epistemology; I would argue that some evidence is better than no evidence at all, especially when one attempts to prove themself a pianist-philosopher. This doesn't even take an ounce of my copious readings of Wittgenstein and Kant to figure out. (And I have read them!)

Anyway in my opinion I would learn a whole sonata; playing just one movement still leaves something to be desired.

An entirely irrelevant bit of trivia but the Wittgenstein family were good friends with Brahms and Mahler. Wittgenstein's brother Paul lost his arm in the war and commissioned Ravel's piano concerto for the left hand (and a piano concerto from Prokofiev that he did not understand at all).

[vaniii]

...

Accordingly, until the late 19th century, it was a rare occurrence for a single pianist to perform an entire program.  And, even if they did so, it no way resembled a "complete work" set of pieces as is performed today.

...

Quite right, in Chopin's first outings as performer - on his first trip to Paris before moving there permanently -  he performed various movements of his piano concerto without an orchestra with some preludes and nocturnes. The audience apparently lapped it up.

He also took part in these 'variety' concerts with Heller and Mendelssohn, and on some occasions Liszt when he could stomach is flamboyancy.  If I recall correctly, on one such occasion Czerny was present in the audience.

[vaniii]

Much to the ridicule of those who post here, I am a classical pianist/philosopher with nothing to back it up.

PS: I do not ridicule you; but I do think you can be quite ... outspoken.  There's nothing wrong with that at all, but perhaps be mindful of who your speaking to.

[zolaxi]

Play what ever you want. Life is too short to worry about things like this.

Unless of course your hand drops off for not learning the 3rd movement.

[mrcreosote]

Do what enchants you! 

Gould did just this in "32 Short Films..." and I follow suite:  I only play what I like.  In fact, a cousin complemented me on how I only pay the middle of Clair De Lune - the good part!

Gould did the following 3 that I also play:

My #1 Go To piece when asked to play something:  Allegro molto e vivace - attacca from Sonata No.13 in E-flat Major, Op.27, No. 1

Allegretto from Sonata No. 17 in D minor, Op. 31, No. 2 "The Tempest" from the film "Practice"

The best 2 of 32 variations:   Variations XXVI & XXVII from 32 Variations on an Original Theme in C minor, WoO 80 - maybe the best 30 seconds of piano you can put out there.

[samdm93]

I concur with everyone else really. I think in a formal concert/recital it's good to play a work in its entirety, however there is nothing wrong with playing a single movement in a less formal setting. ABRSM regularly sets single sonata movements on its syllabus.

[kategilpin]

This is coming up for me--I am pained to say that I suspect the first two movements of the Schumann C major Fantasie (or at least the second movement) are likely beyond me. I'm in my late 70s, and don't want to spend a couple of years working on something that I can't do well. The third movement is very beautiful, and not a technical challenge at all. I'd love to learn it and play it. But part of me is saying no, you can't perform just that third movement by itself. Eeeee! Sure, I can play it in a room by myself, but I'd like to be able to play it for others. And I really doubt I can become really proficient at the other two movements. What would you do?

[mrcreosote]

Play what you like.

If you are playing slower because you want to be accurate.  While that is a good practice ethic, it is totally wrong for performing - unless you have some completely different interpretation or the music played slowly.  Some Rach played 1/2 or 1/4 speed becomes quite surreal.

Play them the way you feel them and forget about the notes.  Take Anton Rubenstein and Beethoven's advice about wrong notes - they are not a problem if you are true to the musical intent.

[visitor]

Perfectly appropriatw and encouraged for the solo transcriptions of sonatas for other instruments snce typically those are only done for a single movement.

Ie slow movemwt from the Rachmaninoff cello sonata. I love it. Single movement and totally more than ok in concert or recital

[j_tour]

I had yesterday a bunch of (meaning a few sentences) my experience to share, but that's already been covered.

For me, I've been wondering for a few months if it's worth trying to burn all of Beethoven's Op. 27 no. 1 in my brain -- I initially quite a while ago just learned it for the one movement with the syncopation, but now I kind of like the whole thing, and while I can and do play through the piece (meaning == sonata) when I'm bored every once in a while, it's off the sheet music, and isn't, therefore, part of my repertoire. 

But, it's a pretty nice, compact little sonata, and so I have second thoughts that I should probably just knuckle down and commit it to my mental furniture.  The little polyphonic bit in C minor at the last bit cracks me up, as does the arpeggios in thirds in the first bit, so I think it's worth manning up, for me.

[j_tour]

You know, here's a serious question, and I'll have some unkind thoughts about you people if you don't answer.

So, how far does it go, anyway?

I spoke of what I'm currently deciding whether or not is going to be burned into my brain (I'm old, and so my stack is pretty deep -- there's a lot of sh** in there), and it occurred to me, since I'm a big fan of Op. 27/1, and I played the presto from the famous one many years ago (I don't know about mastered, but I got through it, lord knows it took me a long time as....I don't know, eleven or twelve.  not a prodigy, but I did it) as well as the other movements, so in theory it shouldn't take that long to get back up to speed.

Well, whatever, that's a digression, my point was, do I WANT to put in the elbow-polishing,and even if I did, which I sort of want to for the Op. 27/1, because I think it's clever, and if I did decide to go full-sonata for Op. 27/1,

wait for it...

why wouldn't I just commit to putting the other op. 27 sonata at the same time, because of symmetry?

[j_tour]

Yeah, so to translate into human-speak, where does it end?  If you're going to do the Op. 27, you should probably do them both in one sitting.

Similar to another thread, the Brahms Op. 118 -- everyone knows the dies irae and the A major, but why not just do them all as published?

I don't know the answer, for me, it's only just I don't have all the time in the world, but it's probably OK to try.

Yeah and I am not crazy drunk right now, totally not.

[dogperson]

@ J Tour
Not to be flippant, but aren't you the only one that can determine how far you want to go in learning... if you are not performing publically.   I don't need symmetry to make me happy, but maybe you do?
The way  I look at it is 'so much music, so little time', so I work on what I love, rather than what would make something 'complete' and provide symmetry. 

IMHO, YMMV.

[j_tour]

@ J Tour
Not to be flippant, but aren't you the only one that can determine how far you want to go in learning... if you are not performing publically.   I don't need symmetry to make me happy, but maybe you do?
The way  I look at it is 'so much music, so little time', so I work on what I love, rather than what would make something 'complete' and provide symmetry. 

IMHO, YMMV.

Hey, man, I think I already indicated it's all good.  I was just saying my own experience with trying to figure out if it's "worth it" to put in the time to learn all the movements of a sonata.

Let's be real:  I'm sure I'm not alone, in fact I'd bet any amount of any thing that ever existed anywhere on any planet, that everyone has their own favorite movements and so forth from pieces.

Here's a little example, from my own personal whatever.  I *** HATE the WTCI c minor prelude -- but I think the fugue is great.  OTOH, the WTCII c minor prelude in c minor is kind of sweet.

I don't *** know, and I'm not even a very good piano player -- but I'm right pretty much often, so in my delusional world that means I win.   

[pianinha]

Single movements only as a extra after my recital. You might consider that perhaps?

Just a suggestion!

Because as an extra....you are not required to play all sonata....and you can play anything you like....without repetition if you wish.

I am quite traditional....a formal recital....single movements of traditional composers are quite a big fat no no for me....in contemporary pieces it depends.

[freebagels]

I would concur with most of the responses on this post...so long as you can make a convincingly "complete" -sounding performance out of one or two movements, do you what you like!  I think it's especially alright at a student/university level, when you're playing on a studio recital with other students.

I guess the only two scenarios that would bother me is if a PROFESSIONAL musician was playing a solo concert and opted against playing a movement solely because they didn't have the technical capacity to do so (for example, playing the first two movements of the Moonlight Sonata when it's clear that they don't have the dexterity to play Mvt. 3)...or if they simply couldn't make a musical justification for such a decision.  I recently finished playing Prokofiev 7 after a few years, and I would often use the third movement as an encore because it functions well enough that way.  However, I would almost never play the first movement by itself because it didn't make sense to me musically without being followed up by the rest of the piece.

I'd say it just depends.