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Topic: Differences in pianos; recital fail  (Read 3604 times)

Offline fhouse

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Differences in pianos; recital fail
on: December 13, 2016, 04:24:59 AM
I'm taking a beginning piano class at a university; recently I gave me first recital, and it didn't go too well (fortunately, the prof already heard me prior).  The problem was that the piano's keys were very heavy and many of my notes didn't sound!!! plus, I was so nervous that I (for unknown reasons) continued with my light touch for the whole thing.

I practice mostly on my weighted digital piano and practice room acoustics, a mix of uprights and grands (which felt a little heavier than my digital, but still play fine).  The recital was on a grand piano that I've never played before.

I feel that the recital piano failed me.  (Definitely not the other way around in this case.)

Any tips on avoiding future embarrassments?
How do you deal with different pianos?

Offline quantum

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #1 on: December 13, 2016, 05:06:08 AM
Hi and welcome to Pianostreet!

I think you are being too hard on yourself.  Learning to play the piano is a lifelong experience, and you should not be expected to be a polished performer just as you are starting.  Give yourself permission to fail, if you do, you will be a much better learner.  Take something away from this first recital experience, add it to your toolkit, and apply it in the future.

One of the quirks about piano is that most pianists do not carry their own instruments with them (unlike instruments such as a violin or flute).  That means the piano that we perform on, is likely not the piano we practice on, or the piano we have lessons on.  It's just part of the game.  How does one deal with different instruments: play lots of pianos, be observant, take note of what works and what doesn't.  At this point, you need to build up experience.  So keep playing, and keep learning. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline avanchnzel

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #2 on: December 13, 2016, 08:23:38 AM
Hi, I botched a recent recital on a grand piano in a really poor condition so it does happen to everyone. The issue was not with key weight but the state of the piano itself which I failed to account for. There were sticky notes, harsh notes, and out-of-tune notes that completely destroyed my all-Ravel programme. Fortunately I managed to salvage it somewhat after the first piece after learning the quirks and issues to navigate around during the debacle of the first piece.

Grand pianos have notoriously heavy keys as unlike in an upright you have the force of gravity to contend with when trying to lift a hammer. The next time you have a recital, you could ask for some practice time on the piano itself beforehand. It's not unreasonable at all.

Offline indianajo

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #3 on: December 13, 2016, 04:02:12 PM
Most grands have a very heavy touch.  This is a problem for me with my lightweight bones and tendons.  It is not a problem for most European Asian or African males. 
The Steinway studio (upright) piano has a heavy touch specifically to condition students to play on grands, without requiring huge practice rooms. Many music schools have some of these for students to practice on.  If you get assigned one of these to prepare for the next performance on a grand, it would be adequate experience to solve this problem, IMHO.  I know of no other upright that takes this much force.  I played a 1982 versionSteinway studio in a music store, and didn't buy it because I won't have much opportunity to play on grands. I fiound the heavy touch very tiring, and that heavy touch would cause tendon inflammation now in my sixties.  I know a church with a female pianist that traded off a Steinway grand because of this problem. 

Offline preludetr

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #4 on: December 13, 2016, 04:28:27 PM
In my experience, I play worse on just about any acoustic piano than on a digital. I do most of my practice on a very light digital. The touch sensitivity is perfectly even and uniform. This makes it possible to exercise minute control over the dynamics and shape phrases with extreme precision. On every acoustic piano I've played, there is a great deal of inconsistency in the action which makes it impossible to play with a high level of detail. The best has been a Yamaha baby grand which was only slightly out of tune and likely not perfectly regulated, but it did allow me to play fairly well. Even so, the digital beats it out slightly. I imagine I could exercise a high level of control on a properly-regulated, high-end concert grand but I have never had a chance to try one and presumably never will.

Some pianos are much worse than others. I played a recital on my teens and was force to use a clunky, low-quality grand with a very heavy action. I ended up making a huge number of mistakes and felt very frustrated.

Offline vaniii

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #5 on: December 13, 2016, 09:04:55 PM
Hello, and welcome.

Please do not worry; if anyone posting now, or after this has had a great first performance, good for them.

There are many benefits to negative experiences, if we can get past the initial shock and disappointment.  Every experience is a learning experience; please don't forget that most celebrated veteran pianists (in or out of the public eye), have had literally hundreds of performances before the ones you see and hear.

---

Any tips on avoiding future embarrassments?

Don't try to avoid embarrassment completely, learn to own it. By this, I mean learn to reflect objectively on the performance; take the positive and negative elements away with you.

- You played too quietly because the keys were 'different'?  Then, cultivate a methodology of technique in your practise that takes into account that likely you will be performing on a different instrument.  Play more pianos, in a variety of accoustics; as my mentor once said "Practise for the concert-hall, not the practise room.", in not so many words "listen".

- You blame the piano for your mistake?  Apologies, but a good craftsman never blames the hammer for the hole in the wall.  Surely, others have performed on that piano, so I would highly doubt that it is the instrument.  Take responsibility for your music; work on your ability to adapt it to the platform on which you play; heavy keys, heavier touch; light-keys, lighter touch; slow down so you can actually get the sounds out.

---

How do you deal with different pianos?

I factor this into my warm up; there are two.

1) horizontal fluency and finger work.  I practice my scales on the instrument which gives an idea of how fluent I can be.  It also indicates any blemishes on the instrument; loose keys, notes that simply don't sound; broken strings; in one case, the una corda made the bottom A litteral fall off (or rather the vineer).

2) vertical voicing and cantabile playing.  I play through simple chordal progressions making the various voices 'sing out'.  This gives an indication of how hard I have to work with the instrument.  I recently played a stienway which had beautiful pianissimos, but lacking and pale in regards to bass.  It worked better with Mozart, but lacked the punch for Brahms.

I would never apologies for doing this in a workshop, particularly so if it was not formal.  Usually, this would happen before the recital before audience arrived.

---

Lastly, and again, I want to you to understand, every piano you play will be different.  Even the assembly line 'clone' products.  As pianist, among other things, it is our job to adapt to the instrument provided; even if said instrument is severely lacking and less-that desirable for the job.

It is only a select few who are able to transport their piano wherever they go; they are spoiled with this luxury.

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #6 on: December 13, 2016, 11:56:32 PM
I'm taking a beginning piano class at a university; recently I gave me first recital, and it didn't go too well (fortunately, the prof already heard me prior).  The problem was that the piano's keys were very heavy and many of my notes didn't sound!!! plus, I was so nervous that I (for unknown reasons) continued with my light touch for the whole thing.

I practice mostly on my weighted digital piano and practice room acoustics, a mix of uprights and grands (which felt a little heavier than my digital, but still play fine).  The recital was on a grand piano that I've never played before.

I feel that the recital piano failed me.  (Definitely not the other way around in this case.)

Any tips on avoiding future embarrassments?
How do you deal with different pianos?

In 1971, when I was a student at North Texas State University (now UNT), I had the extreme pleasure of befriending Robert Speer who was the Tuner/Technician for the Department of Music.

At that time, and until today, UNT has the largest student enrollment of any university music school in the world.  It says so on their website, and in that they had 1,500 music majors in 1971, it is a factual statement.  Therefore, when I state that I befriended Robert Speer, I am talking about an experience most pianists never get.

To cut to the chase per your post, wherever and whenever you are to perform in concert, quietly and respectfully and personally approach the tuner/technician that will be in charge of the instrument on which you are to perform.

99% of the time, they will be flattered that you even asked.  Then, play the piano, express your concerns, and the see if it can be adjusted.  If so, fine.  If not, see if there is another instrument available which is better suited for your technique.  Substituting pianos between first and second halves of a concert is done all the time.

Also, the late great technical master Earl Wild stated unequivocally in his Memoir that he would never play on an unadjusted Steinway because of their "stiff action."

And, for the record, I attended a recital in 1974 in Austin, Texas USA, wherein the action on the piano was not properly regulated at the top.  So, when Maestro Claudio Arrau played the Schumann Symphonic Etudes, the notes at the top "did not sound."  The point being, that it can happen both ways, either with a stiff action or an overly light action.

So, meet, greet, and then talk to the tuner/technician in question.

All the best, and please contact me by PM if you have further questions on this most very important subject.

Hey, do you think Eric Clapton, or better yet Elton John just goes out there and performs with instruments that have not been very carefully brought up to specification?   I think not.

In Rock n Roll, it is called a "Sound Check."  Do your own, as did a pianist named Horowitz for most of his professional life.

Offline bronnestam

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #7 on: December 14, 2016, 11:41:12 AM
Actually I wrote a blog post the other day about this.
https://pianovning.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/a-small-step-for-mankind/

No, I mean, it is a rather long blog post about how I started to play the piano again after a long, long hibernation. I did this re-start on my digital, and my first re-encounter with an acoustic grand, also my VERY FIRST encounter with a Steinway grand, became slightly hilarious ...
Not that it mattered much, as it was not a recital, it was a little seminar for adult amateurs and I am good friends with the teacher and I did not fall into pieces - I just got a good laugh at it. Still, it was quite embarrassing.  

Later on I got a teacher for regular lessons and I simply hated her upright piano, as we never got along. The keyboard was higher up and the pedals lower than I was used to, I struggled to stay balanced while I was playing and I produced many, many mistakes and errors that we then spent a lot of time "correcting" - which was time wasted, as I could never reproduce those mistakes when I came back home again. And with the different action on the keys, some notes sounded much louder than intended, some more quiet. Actually I had lessons when I played with tears in my eyes because I had practiced SO MUCH at home and really refined the touch, and all I could do in lesson was garbage.

When my teacher finally heard me play on an acoustic grand we used for a recital, she was baffled! "I have never heard you play so well before", she said. OK, it was because the touch and feel, not to mention the height of this piano, was more what I was accustomed to.

I don't think it is fair to let an unexperienced (or experienced, for that matter) pianist make a recital on a piano he/she has not even touched before. Next time, ask for a practice hour, or 30 minutes, in beforehand, and preferably not while the audience is entering the hall.
 

Offline iansinclair

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #8 on: December 14, 2016, 02:58:47 PM
As has been said, the very first line of defence for such problems is to get a chance to play the instrument beforehand.  That way you begin to learn its quirks -- which it may have -- and the differences in weight, which it may very well have.

I do occasionally have the misfortune to play on digital pianos, and rather good ones.  I have to adit that I don't care for them, as they are too light and, for my taste, too finicky.  I hadn't really thought about the situation for many younger students, however, for whom the "normal" piano is a digital, and the only contact they have with acoustic pianos is for a recital.  I find it easier to go from a slightly heavier piano (such as my Steinway A) to a digital than from my M (which is very light for a grand) to my A, which is slightly heavier -- for which reason I practice almost exclusively on the A (the heavier of my two).  Indeed, I would recommend practicing on the heaviest piano you are comfortable with, assuming it is properly regulated and even and tuned, of course.

But then, I started out as an organist, not a pianist, and my principle instrument for years was a big tracker instrument (the size of a small house) which was wonderfully regulated -- but heavier by quite a stretch than any piano I've ever played!
Ian

Offline fhouse

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #9 on: December 14, 2016, 05:05:57 PM
Thanks for all the replies.

The takeaway I get is to just try the new piano before a performance as each piano is more or less an individual.   With more experience playing on different pianos, one can expect to adjust for the piano differences more easily.

...and that blaming the piano is unfair to the poor piano : )

I also agree with the poster WRT liking the digital piano's light touch.  But I try not to get too used to it, as  (until everybody moves to digital 20-30 years from now : ) the test/performance/demo pianos are going to be acoustics.  It's kind of funny, I feel like I'm in the middle of a sea of change that I'm required to put in the time to learn something (acoustic piano) that may disappear during my lifetime : )

Again, thanks foryour advice and words of encouragement.

Offline fhouse

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #10 on: December 14, 2016, 05:17:15 PM
I do occasionally have the misfortune to play on digital pianos, and rather good ones.  I have to adit that I don't care for them, as they are too light and, for my taste, too finicky.  I hadn't really thought about the

That sounds similar to how my professor feels about digitals.  She even mentioned that dynamics control on a digital is VERY (yes, there's emphasis) hard and she doesn't expect it during class (where we use digitals... good enough for me because I have no time for the dynamics anyway until I'm very familiar with the piece).


Offline quantum

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #11 on: December 14, 2016, 09:10:50 PM
...and that blaming the piano is unfair to the poor piano : )

I would say blaming the piano is being unfair to yourself.  It does nothing to find solutions to the problems one faces when presented with an unfamiliar instrument, and is a distraction from work that ultimately is the pianists responsibility.  If you approach an unfamiliar piano with the attitude of flexibility and adaptability you will be much more equipped to deal with instrument issues.  


until everybody moves to digital 20-30 years from now : )
I wouldn't hold my breath on this.  A lot of things may go digital in that time, but it is unlikely that a digital model of an acoustic instrument would completely supplant its ancestor.  

The acoustic guitar is still relevant in pop music, new pipe organs are still being installed despite the advances in digital sampling, film still lives in photography, and the list goes on.



Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline bronnestam

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #12 on: December 14, 2016, 10:45:15 PM

I wouldn't hold my breath on this.  A lot of things may go digital in that time, but it is unlikely that a digital model of an acoustic instrument would completely supplant its ancestor.  

The acoustic guitar is still relevant in pop music, new pipe organs are still being installed despite the advances in digital sampling, film still lives in photography, and the list goes on.





I am sure the acoustic piano will live on ... at least the grands.
Where I live, you can get an acoustic upright totally for free as people want them out of their homes. Recently a friend offered to transport his lovely upright home to whoever wanted it, but unfortunately he published this offer in social media, and one hour later he told everybody he had taken the piano to the city dump where they literally dumped it and it was destroyed. A tragic event, as several people actually wanted to have it ...

I have a digital and without the digitals I would not have played the piano today, I know that. To most of us, digitals are the only possible option and many digitals - including mine - are excellent. BUT as long as we have piano concerts and big recitals, we will have those lovely concert grands too, I am sure! Of course nothing beats a big concert grand in good shape, they are simply fantastic.

So, MAYBE the acoustic uprights will be rare in the future, at least in private homes, but the concert grands will remain. That is my guess. 

Offline rmbarbosa

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #13 on: December 16, 2016, 08:10:56 PM
I have a 100 years old Bluthner grand and a digital.
It happens that my acustic grand is more light than the digital.
And my Bluthner is perfectly tuned.
So if the grands acustic pianos are more heavier than the digitals, I dont know why my Bluthner is so soft.

also, pianos sounds diferently according to where they are played. It is very different to play in a musical hall or at home.

So, I agree. It is very important to experiment the piano and only after play to an audience

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #14 on: December 17, 2016, 12:12:12 AM
1)  As commentary, these have been most insightful replies and seemingly genuinely heartfelt.

2)  However, the referenced predication resignation as to the ultimate demise of the acoustic piano is in a word:  sad, very sad.  Having spoken directly to the heads of those associated with the top acoustic pianos manufactured in this world, your trepidation is unfortunately on point.

3)  The current head of the Steinway piano factory used to sell exotic home stereo sets and wide screen TVs (Bang Olafsen).

4)  Per the PMAI (the Piano Manufacturers Association International), the number of acoustic pianos sold in the USA in 2003 was 30,000 units a year, and ten years later it was 10,000 units a year.  And, that accounts and incorporates Japanese and Chinese sales.

5)  The OP's comment was:  . . .  I get is to just try the new piano before a performance as each piano is more or less an individual.   With more experience playing on different pianos, one can expect to adjust for the piano differences more easily. . . .and that blaming the piano is unfair to the poor piano : )

This is on point but misunderstood in regards the instrument, which is an inanimate object.

6)  Therefore, my advice, per the OP and everyone else, is to once again befriend a piano tuner technician (RPT) and then suck their brains dry on any question or problem you have ever encountered with this great instrument.  As I have posted before, they will be most flattered that you even asked.

Offline outin

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #15 on: December 17, 2016, 01:35:22 AM
I have a 100 years old Bluthner grand and a digital.
It happens that my acustic grand is more light than the digital.
And my Bluthner is perfectly tuned.
So if the grands acustic pianos are more heavier than the digitals, I dont know why my Bluthner is so soft.

also, pianos sounds diferently according to where they are played. It is very different to play in a musical hall or at home.

So, I agree. It is very important to experiment the piano and only after play to an audience

My Bluthner grand is very comfortable and light to play as well. So far I have found most grands  easy to play except one Schimmel and some Yamahas. Uprights can be really difficult. I think it's because I often end up playing quite deep on the keys due to my handshape.

With digitals I find that the keys may be light but still harder to play well. I think it's partly because of the above mentioned problem with dynamic control...

Offline Bob

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #16 on: December 17, 2016, 03:57:12 AM
I'd say...

It's you, not the piano.  You mentioned it was at a university, so a university recital hall grand piano?  It's not going to be bad.

And it's partly the teacher.  Maybe a bit mass production if it's a piano class, but still... Why not bring that class into the recital hall space and try out the piano?  Plus, have a test performance with just the students so they can get to the piano, hall, and performing a bit.  If they're teaching a class, there's got to be a way that could request the performance space.  Anyone involved with the request would understand that.  I'm not sure too many professional don't play on the performance instrument beforehand, although I do remember a story about an accompanist who began a recital and discovered there were no insides to the piano.

And you've got a digital at home.  The sound settings won't matter.  You'd have to physically reweight the keys to get a different physical feel.  The timing of the tone does matter, but the keys don't change weights.  And then grands feel longer and weight moves differently.

Whatever the instrument you normally use makes you sound good at (that you might not notice and don't focus on fixing) you can sound bad at on another instrument.  I remember one digital I played on that sounded ok... Until I played the same piece on an acoustic and realized the digital was making voicing really, really easy.

Tell your teacher.  It's partly their fault too.  For the next recital insist on getting some time on the performance instrument.  If it's a university maybe there's a piano practice room space, and you could try several piano.  That's practicing performing with varying instruments.  Just notice what's different on them.  After you've played on a lot of them, you'll know which ones really do have issues, like keys that are harder to press down or keys that are too loose.  If it's a university, and the perfromance is in a "regular" hall, not a specific music performance space, it's possible the piano there is kind of crappy.  Maybe a grand piano for looks but no one takes care of it and it's in a drafy environment.  But if you're taking class piano... It's probably a university with some kind of music program which means they have a performance space with a grand there.

The other students in the class probably felt the same way.  Unless they got some time on the piano before the performance.

Another issue is if your fingers (hands, arms, etc., everything involved in playing) area weak for an acoustic.  The solution to that would be practicing on an acoustic, practicing on a grand.  That's not so realistic to just whip out a grand piano for home practice though. 


Tell your teacher now, so they know now.
Insist on time with the performance piano before the next recital.  Insist that your teacher get you in there.
Try for some time on with several pianos. 
Also I suppose... Think about an acoustic at home, if it's possible.  Maybe even think about individual, private lessons.  Your teacher's attention is divided among the students.  If they didn't get you into the performance space or even mention it... What else are they not doing?  Are you prepped up for a performance as much as you might? 

And then general philosophy -- Learn from it and move on.  Don't dwell on it too much, whether it was positive or negative.  It's done and in the past now.  Keep moving forward.


You do say "prof" as in professor like it's a professor who is the teacher.  A profesor teaching class piano?  I wonder if it's not a piano performance performance professor.... Or just general use of the word professor...  Smaller university maybe... Smaller music program... If it really was a professor teaching class piano, maybe you're a music student, but this post doesn't sound like it.  You'd already know some of this from your other instrument.    If it is a professor... I imagine they might consider the class beneath them and might just be going through the motions.  Another semester of class piano to run students through again.

One idea -- For strengthening your fingers, try playing loud on the digital.  Drop the hand onto the keyboard.  It might feel like you're going to break the keys if they're plastic.  That might be more realistic to playing on a grand.  Although I'm assuming you've got weighted keys on the digital.  If not, definitely get a digital with weighted keys.  Ah, rereading... It is weighted. 

I would say the digital is failing you though.  It's not an acoustic.  It might be making you sound better, better than you would on an acoustic.  And it might be preventing you from learning those playing techniques on an acoustic.  If the tone is great on a digital (it's a recording or synthesized), that's not the same as you actually making a great tone on an acoustic.


Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline quantum

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #17 on: December 17, 2016, 05:51:21 AM
Bob makes good points.  It is common at universities to be able to try out the performance instrument beforehand.

You might want to clarify about your class/teacher, as people here will be able to give more specific points. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline Bob

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #18 on: December 17, 2016, 04:50:43 PM
I wouldn't let it get to you or worry about it so much.  We're not in control of all elements in a situation.  No that that's an excuse either though.  Control what you can for how important/a priority it is. 

And then the idea of continuing on, whether the situation went well or poorly.  It's just one performance.  There will be another in the future.

Another interesting angle is that you learn the most from negative situations.  If everything went smoothly (great, because it might be the result of many attempts and intelligent planning) you might not think about it too much for things to improve the next time.

In terms of the event itself, I see two angles, the same for any goal.  There's the actual outcome that an outsider would see.  Sounds like that didn't go so well, although it didn't go well out of the blue.  (If you had it prepped up and performed it 100 times one way, and then this freak thing happened one time, it's just a freak thing, but it sounds due to playing on a different piano.)  Besides the outsider/world view on the performance, there's also your progress, more of an inner perspective.  Did you learn something from it?  Are you better than you were before?  Do you have things to improve for next time?  You did come here for advice, so you've got another resource here.  Did you practice the piece well?  If the performance piano was your specific digital piano, would the performance have gone smoothly?  Even if it does and you play the best you can, do you know other things to improve?  In terms of learning, is this piece a step up from before?  Or is it just another piece on the same level that you've done before (not so bad and not out of the realm of possibility, esp. if you want to sound better/improve quality for a performance).  From the inner perspective on whether something is a success or not, it's hard to not make some progress.  Could you have made more progress?  Is there a more effective/efficient way?  Is that what you want?  I'm trying to think if there's a way to really fail on the inner perspective side of success.  Even if you blindly, thoughtlessly go through the motions on a piece that doesn't challenge you, you still go through the process and keep something about it fresh.  (That sounds like paid performances, or at least what I've gotten paid for in the past.  I purposely kept the music safe and very doable.)  I suppose the only way to fail on the inner side would be to NOT do anything... or maybe to stagnate in doing things the same way with the same results, never really making any progress....
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #19 on: December 18, 2016, 12:24:11 AM
The posts here to date have been both excellent, and at the same time illustrative.

My video's title is that "Your Piano Teacher Taught You Wrong."  And in that video, the first words out of my mouth are that I am not "blaming" my teacher.  For the record, he taught me the very fine points of producing a "singing tone," for the better part of 15 years (for free).

Accordingly, my teacher also taught me the following "eclect philosophy" of piano pedagogy:

1)  If it is physically possible for another pianist (Horowitz, Arrau, Michelangeli, et al), then it is most probable for you as a student to do the same.

2)  Therefore, contrary to popular thought, it is not your fault (and has never been).  It is not anyone's fault.

3)  Pianists in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries, who had proved their worth as a dedicated student, also raised the necessary monetary funds for them to matriculate at a high level.

4)  So, if soccer/football players or gymnasts can raise the money for them to learn their craft at an early level, then:

5)  I guess a simple classical pianist can do the same.

6)  This repertoire was never written for a "digital piano."  If you cannot "afford" an acoustic piano, that is a lie.

7)  Every piano dealership in the world allows anyone to purchase an instrument "on time."  That is the way my late father bought the magnificent Baldwin Baby Grand that I play on, in 1950!

Offline keypeg

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #20 on: December 18, 2016, 03:22:05 AM
If you cannot "afford" an acoustic piano, that is a lie.
Sorry, but that is insulting and offensive as well as hurtful.  How many of us have you just called liars?  You don't know any of us personally, or our lives or circumstances.   :(

Offline outin

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #21 on: December 18, 2016, 03:46:09 AM
Sorry, but that is insulting and offensive as well as hurtful.  How many of us have you just called liars?  You don't know any of us personally, or our lives or circumstances.   :(
This person has told us in earlier posts that he has aspergers. So I don't think he really can avoid being insulting and fixated in his posts...

Offline dogperson

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #22 on: December 18, 2016, 03:53:28 AM
This person has told us in earlier posts that he has aspergers. So I don't think he really can avoid being insulting and fixated in his posts...


Then, he needs to have someone else read his planned posts before they are posted.  No one is perfect, but being an adult means you develop ways to deal with the shortcomings that you have.

Offline outin

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #23 on: December 18, 2016, 04:03:10 AM
Then, he needs to have someone else read his planned posts before they are posted.  No one is perfect, but being an adult means you develop ways to deal with the shortcomings that you have.

I'm afraid it goes that way only in a perfect world...

And I'm not defending him. Just pointing out that confronting a person like that is useless. Believe me, I've tried in the past ;)

Offline keypeg

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #24 on: December 18, 2016, 04:48:12 AM
I have also had some good conversations with Louis.  It's just that this one was hurtful and it hit a nerve.

Offline indianajo

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #25 on: December 18, 2016, 01:13:09 PM


1)  If it is physically possible for another pianist (Horowitz, Arrau, Michelangeli, et al), then it is most probable for you as a student to do the same.

6)  This repertoire was never written for a "digital piano."  If you cannot "afford" an acoustic piano, that is a lie.

Item 1 ignores racial differences and sex differences in bodies.  While muscles can be built up by exercise, bones joints and tendons cannot, one was born with what one joints and tendons one is going to get. Excessive strength building exercise on light bones and tendons will cause inflamation of the joints and tendons, however strong the muscles become.  Northern Europeans are, like a certain infamous demagog screamed, supermen when it comes to combat with swords and playing piano.  South Asians are supermen free divers, and my race has unusual endurance running & walking.    
Item 6 ignores the fragility of wood pianos in environments where it rains excessively, houses are not very dry, and frequent cyclones and floods destroy the inventory of used instruments.  While the midwest US where I & Mr. Podesta live is sending thousands of good pianos to the dump yearly, SE Asia, India, Phillipines Indonesia and other areas affected by cyclones and monsoons have very few good used pianos.  Mildew, mold, and warping, destroy the old pianos. This drives up the costs.   Those areas also have very few good dry houses on 100 year flood free property.  My grandparents were only able to afford the most miserable excuse for a piano in 1936, and it was not until the post WWII affluence boom that our family could afford something as unnecessary as a piano. 

Offline tenk

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #26 on: December 27, 2016, 04:47:25 PM
Here we go again...

Louis can and generally should be ignored, for all the reasons he loves to list out in his posts. Allow me:

Quote
My video's title is that "Your Piano Teacher Taught You Wrong."  And in that video, the first words out of my mouth are that I am not "blaming" my teacher.  For the record, he taught me the very fine points of producing a "singing tone," for the better part of 15 years (for free).

What in the world does any of this have to do with the OP? And you're still peddling that fraudulent video?

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Accordingly, my teacher also taught me the following "eclect philosophy" of piano pedagogy:

1)  If it is physically possible for another pianist (Horowitz, Arrau, Michelangeli, et al), then it is most probable for you as a student to do the same.

More nonsense, though Indianajo has covered the reasons sufficiently.

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3)  Pianists in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries, who had proved their worth as a dedicated student, also raised the necessary monetary funds for them to matriculate at a high level.

So wrong I don't even know where to begin. Nothing has changed in 300 years? What was one way in the 1700's should hold true today? This is asinine bordering on troll.

Quote
4)  So, if soccer/football players or gymnasts can raise the money for them to learn their craft at an early level, then:

5)  I guess a simple classical pianist can do the same.

Uhhh, what? You implying that the costs associated with playing soccer or taking up gymnastics are somehow similar to buying an acoustic piano? What planet are you on?

Quote
6)  This repertoire was never written for a "digital piano."  If you cannot "afford" an acoustic piano, that is a lie.

Wrong, and insulting, as already highlighted by others. You have no idea what anyone's financial situation is like. Then to follow that up with

Quote
7)  Every piano dealership in the world allows anyone to purchase an instrument "on time."  That is the way my late father bought the magnificent Baldwin Baby Grand that I play on, in 1950!

Someone should purchase on credit an acoustic piano, rather than a perfectly good digital that they can use to make music they enjoy? And this coming from someone boasting about the fact that they didn't have to buy their own grand?

...

Sadly I've had to take on the role of routinely debunking Louis's posts, on the chance that someone might come to our beloved forum and take his bullsh!t literally.

I don't care how many times he claims to be an "Aspy". The time it takes to sit down and type out a post (or an aggressive and insulting PM, as he has done with me) yields many opportunities to rethink what's being said and the effect it may have on the reader. In my opinion, Louis is just a pompous hack that doesn't care.

Offline nastassja

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Re: Differences in pianos; recital fail
Reply #27 on: January 01, 2017, 03:07:35 AM
I guess we have all been there! From pianos pedals that do not really work (or stop working once you use both at the same time), sticky keys or other things... welcome to the pianists' world! I guess it is part of the job too, sometimes you will have good pianos, sometimes not. Sometimes you will even have good pianos you don't like (like me+my former school's Mason and Hamlin and its weird action... I felt like I was playing on a cotton keyboard, the sound was nice but it was hard to play).

I found that practicing on public pianos/at a church/music store is usually free and helps getting used to different pianos (and having people around). The only problem is that you cannot always practice in a quiet room.

Otherwise, there is the (more expensive) studio rental option, depending on where you live.

You could also ask for a special permission to practice on your concert instrument (usually, music schools/teachers book the same concert halls, and they know whom to contact).


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