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Lang Lang (60 Minutes) (Read 7357 times)

Offline ryguillian

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Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
« on: January 10, 2005, 05:34:47 PM »
This post is a general conversation starter: I was wondering if anybody had caught the "60 Minutes" episode on Lang-Lang, I myself didn't see it... but about 10 minutes after it was over I got a bazillion instant-messages from misc. people saying things like, "Lang Lang is the best pianist in the world!" (A title which Marc-Andre Hamelin holds, in my opinion) ... Did "60 Minutes" really sensationalize this mediocre pianist that much? I am not a fan of Lang-Lang I think his nickname "Bang Bang" is very appropriate, I think his performances lack intellect, temperment, and musical coherency and his cheap sentimentality is as transparent as glass.

An example of this would be his recording of Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 3 where his first and second movements completely lack feeling and seem detached and subdued... and then a torrent of noise (and I emphasize noise) in the third movement... it's as if he thought the third movement were the only one worth playing... rather sad, and this is just a taste of the artists's immaturity at the keyboard.

I've heard that Lang-Lang has been playing since he was three, and I don't think his playing has matured since then.
“Our civilization is decadent and our language—so the argument runs—must inevitably share in the general collapse.”
Politics and the English Language, an essay by George Orwell

Offline ryguillian

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #1 on: January 10, 2005, 05:37:40 PM »
I apologize for posting this in the wrong topic... (moving to repit.)
“Our civilization is decadent and our language—so the argument runs—must inevitably share in the general collapse.”
Politics and the English Language, an essay by George Orwell

Offline Floristan

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #2 on: January 10, 2005, 05:52:16 PM »
Moved to "repertoire"

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #3 on: January 10, 2005, 07:22:48 PM »
Such a program is obviously a big advertisement to advertise Lang Lang. I wonder why other pianists are not as lucky as Lang Lang to get such an opportunity to appear on TV. Lang Lang had apppeared twice already in two years on an important TV shows like this.

Only those who don't have enough experience in classical music will be fooled so easily by such a program. A weird pianist like Lang Lang will continue to be regarded as a best pianist by many American people while many other so much better pianists will remain unknown, what kind of world is this?  I think Lang Lang will continue to be very boastful. What I dislike most about him is his aggressive attitude!

Offline stormx

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #4 on: January 10, 2005, 07:37:23 PM »
The other day, when choosing a CD at a music store (i finally bought the Mauricio Pollini Vol 1 of the "Great pianists of the XX century" series, what resulted to be an excellent choice), i spent some minutes watching a DVD showing Lang Lang performing. I do not know whether it is the same you are talking about, tough...

I am very new to classical music, so i feel i am not able to judge him technically or musically. All that i can say is that i deeply dislike HIS GESTURES during his playing. He seems to be just exagerating for the camera, and not really feeling the music sincerely.

On the other hand, i have recently watched on TV Lazar Berman performing many Chopin Polonaises. I really enjoyed it !! I find him really amazing (and a little overweight, by the way  :P)
Is he still performing?

Bye !!

Offline SteinwayTony

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #5 on: January 10, 2005, 09:50:25 PM »
This post is a general conversation starter: I was wondering if anybody had caught the "60 Minutes" episode on Lang-Lang, I myself didn't see it... but about 10 minutes after it was over I got a bazillion instant-messages from misc. people saying things like, "Lang Lang is the best pianist in the world!" (A title which Marc-Andre Hamelin holds, in my opinion) ... Did "60 Minutes" really sensationalize this mediocre pianist that much? I am not a fan of Lang-Lang I think his nickname "Bang Bang" is very appropriate, I think his performances lack intellect, temperment, and musical coherency and his cheap sentimentality is as transparent as glass.

An example of this would be his recording of Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 3 where his first and second movements completely lack feeling and seem detached and subdued... and then a torrent of noise (and I emphasize noise) in the third movement... it's as if he thought the third movement were the only one worth playing... rather sad, and this is just a taste of the artists's immaturity at the keyboard.

I've heard that Lang-Lang has been playing since he was three, and I don't think his playing has matured since then.

I don't know why you would bring it up if you didn't actually see the 60 Minutes segment, but anyway...

I did watch it.  CBS interviewed his parents and revealed a very sad story (Lang Lang and his father saying goodbye to his mother and leaving for America) and a phenomenal child prodigy.  There was a clip of Lang Lang, age 5, playing a Mozart sonata brilliantly.

To the person who suggested the 60 Minutes segment was an "advertisement," I wouldn't go that far.  The NY Times reviewer who gave Lang Lang a disgusting review shared his opinion, so that side was well represented.

Lang Lang is a gifted pianist, and I am tired of arguing about it.  As for the people who are so closed-minded that they can not even look past his "gestures," perhaps you don't know what to listen for.  If you argue that Lang Lang has no "emotion, musicality, feeling," or one of those impossible-to-define concepts, your argument holds no ground with me unless you have Lang Lang's technical ability, and, since the anti-Lang Lang grumblers are no more than envious, you probably do not.

Offline pies

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­
«Reply #6 on: January 10, 2005, 09:55:03 PM »
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Offline xvimbi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #7 on: January 10, 2005, 10:12:16 PM »
If you argue that Lang Lang has no "emotion, musicality, feeling," or one of those impossible-to-define concepts, your argument holds no ground with me unless you have Lang Lang's technical ability, and, since the anti-Lang Lang grumblers are no more than envious, you probably do not.

To start: Yes, I am jealous; I wish I had Lang Lang's skills.

Yet, I strongly disagree with the assertion that one has to have Lang Lang's technical ability in order to criticize him. One does not have to be as good or better, nor does one have to be able to play the piano at all. Music is judged by listening, not by playing. As long as one can LISTEN, one can very well judge, independent of one's own playing abilities.

Offline quixoticcafe

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #8 on: January 10, 2005, 11:17:34 PM »
I originally thought you wre talking about LING LING the giant panda... my bad! :)
 
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/26186/newsDate/23-Jul-2004/story.htm

 

Offline SteinwayTony

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #9 on: January 11, 2005, 12:13:20 AM »


To start: Yes, I am jealous; I wish I had Lang Lang's skills.

Yet, I strongly disagree with the assertion that one has to have Lang Lang's technical ability in order to criticize him. One does not have to be as good or better, nor does one have to be able to play the piano at all. Music is judged by listening, not by playing. As long as one can LISTEN, one can very well judge, independent of one's own playing abilities.

Of course every listener has the right to make decisions for his or her self, but I have theorized that the harsh criticism Lang Lang has received on this and other boards is a result of jealousy of his technique.  Therefore, logic dictates that in order to disprove my theory, only those who DO have technical skills comparable to Lang Lang can credibly talk him down.

Offline xvimbi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #10 on: January 11, 2005, 12:47:52 AM »
Of course every listener has the right to make decisions for his or her self, but I have theorized that the harsh criticism Lang Lang has received on this and other boards is a result of jealousy of his technique.  Therefore, logic dictates that in order to disprove my theory, only those who DO have technical skills comparable to Lang Lang can credibly talk him down.

Your logic is flawed on several levels. One would be that his technique is nothing special when compared to many other pianists. Would you say that any criticism of those other pianists should then also be based on jealousy? I "theorize" that it is highly unlikely that jealousy is the driving force. People might be jealous of what he CAN do, but they are certainly not jealous of what he IS doing.

Second, the criticism of LL is not directed against his technique, but against his musicality and general musicianship. It is directed at what he is doing with his skills, not at his skills. Technique plays no role in the criticism.

Third, I know quite a few non-pianists who don't like his playing (I know quite a few non-pianists who do like his playing also). One does not have to be a pianist to credibly criticize the music a pianist makes. It's all about the sounds that are being produced, this is being judged, not how they are being produced.

Forth, using your logic it would be just as non-credible for most people on this planet to claim that LL IS a good pianist, because, according to your theory, only pianists who can play as well or better as him would have the credibility to make such a judgement.
 :P

Offline SteinwayTony

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #11 on: January 11, 2005, 01:50:39 AM »


Quote
Your logic is flawed on several levels. One would be that his technique is nothing special when compared to many other pianists. Would you say that any criticism of those other pianists should then also be based on jealousy? I "theorize" that it is highly unlikely that jealousy is the driving force. People might be jealous of what he CAN do, but they are certainly not jealous of what he IS doing.

I disagree.  It is uncontested that Lang Lang has incredible technique; but interpretation and musicality are subjective terms, that is, they are quite easy to disagree with, and if you use big, florid, intelligent sounding words, you can turn a shapeless argument into gold.  You can't do that with technique.  Technique is a solid, concrete entity.

Quote
Second, the criticism of LL is not directed against his technique, but against his musicality and general musicianship. It is directed at what he is doing with his skills, not at his skills. Technique plays no role in the criticism.

Oh, but it does.  You may shun me for bringing another aspect into play -- racism -- but it's unfortunately true.  Many of my friends quiver with anger that "another one of those Asians" was able to succeed.  It is a common myth that Asians naturally have a gift for technical skills, though I myself think that this should be attributed to enormous amounts of self-discipline and discipline from parents who attempt to live vicariously through their children.  Hence, the concept of the child prodigy.  Did you see Lang Lang's mother on 60 Minutes?  "I've always wanted to be a musician," she said.  "Ha!  Of course," I thought to myself.  Jealous of a pianist's technique, the unreasonable person denounces that which he CAN denounce -- not technique, but the subjective concept of "emotion."

The members of Piano World have a problem with Lang Lang's ego.  His EGO.  I didn't even bother getting into that discussion, because, hey -- out of all the people who aspire to be concert pianists, probably about one percent of that talented pool actually make it.  They DESERVE their egos!  To think that Lang Lang is the only one in the classical music scene with an ego is ludicrous.

Quote
Forth, using your logic it would be just as non-credible for most people on this planet to claim that LL IS a good pianist, because, according to your theory, only pianists who can play as well or better as him would have the credibility to make such a judgement.
 :P

It's as simple as this...I don't have Lang Lang's technique and I claim that he is a good pianist.  A great one, in fact.  I admit that I was disappointed by Deutsche Grammophon's calling him and someone else (Hilary Hahn, maybe?) "the future of classical music."  That's stupid.  I'll also admit that I'm jealous.  I want his technique! 
Quote

Offline xvimbi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #12 on: January 11, 2005, 03:04:14 AM »
I didn't want to get into a discussion about LL. I only wanted to dispell the idea that, in order to credibly criticize someone, one has to be able to do it better. The only thing that is required is to be able to distinguish good from bad, nothing more, nothing less.

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #13 on: January 11, 2005, 08:00:30 AM »


To the person who suggested the 60 Minutes segment was an "advertisement," I wouldn't go that far.  The NY Times reviewer who gave Lang Lang a disgusting review shared his opinion, so that side was well represented.


It depends on what that mucis critic said in that TV program. Is it anything like:

" Oh! I have been wrong about Lang Lang? " Haha!

I haven't seen the tv progrm, so I don't know. Anybody who had viewed this program like to reveal what the music critic said?

Offline Hmoll

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #14 on: January 11, 2005, 04:33:55 PM »
LL is a former child prodigy who has not grown up yet.
He has an amazing technique - not the best out there, but still great. Unfortunately, that great technique is lost because he can't or won't use his mind to actually interpret music. It's all lost in the contrived affectations and mannerisms.

The 60 minutes episode reinforced my opinion of him. With any luck he'll grow up and mature.

When you think of the artists who actually make/made music - Zimmerman, Richter, Cziffra, Hoffman, Horzowski, Argerich, Gilels, Pletnev, Hamelin, Schiff, Kuerti..... - LL simply has no place in that company.
"I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!" -- Max Reger

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #15 on: January 11, 2005, 05:42:25 PM »
Anybody can achieve great  technique  and be called a child prodigy if he is forced to undergo long hours of rigorous training everyday since three years old. Still, I don't think Lang Lang's technique is that great. His technique is only better than some older pianists, that is all.

I think some people here are too scared to see Lang Lang being criticized. Jealousy is given as a reason if you criticize Lang Lang. Even racism is also given as another reason. How about other Asian pianists? Which one of them has received as much criticisms as Lang Lang? If one is not musical and yet one is able to fool so many people, of course he will be criticized. You cannot explain your lack of musicality by classifying your music as  'future classical music' or improvisation'. Worst still if such pianist will always boast himself and at the same time downgraded other pianists. I was rather surprised to hear Lang Lang criticizing Japanese musicians during an interview given in Hong kong radio station not long ago.

Offline SteinwayTony

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #16 on: January 11, 2005, 08:43:42 PM »


It depends on what that mucis critic said in that TV program. Is it anything like:

" Oh! I have been wrong about Lang Lang? " Haha!

I haven't seen the tv progrm, so I don't know. Anybody who had viewed this program like to reveal what the music critic said?


Like I said before, I watched the program and listened to the critic.  Obviously Tomasini is not going to come on 60 Minutes and say he was "wrong about Lang Lang."  No, of course not.  He just presented the whole argument of the anti-Lang Lang scene: no musicality, too many (extreme) gestures, etc.

Quote
Anybody can achieve great  technique  and be called a child prodigy if he is forced to undergo long hours of rigorous training everyday since three years old.

Not completely true...some people just have the fingers for it.  Studies have proven this.

Offline mound

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #17 on: January 12, 2005, 04:38:12 PM »
it's funny, since that aired on "60 Minutes" - several friends of mine who don't know piano or classical music, saw that and have approached me with comments like "did you hear about that new piano prodigy guy Lang Lang who is supposedly the most amazing piano player ever to come along" - etc. etc..

interesting the perceptions media can create


Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #18 on: January 12, 2005, 05:26:26 PM »
it's funny, since that aired on "60 Minutes" - several friends of mine who don't know piano or classical music, saw that and have approached me with comments like "did you hear about that new piano prodigy guy Lang Lang who is supposedly the most amazing piano player ever to come along" - etc. etc..

interesting the perceptions media can create




Like I said before, Lang Lang depends on huge publicity machine for survival. Only those who don't know much about classical music will attend his concerts and buy his CDs, haha! Lang Lang will continue to be regarded as the best pianist by these people.

quote author=SteinwayTony link=topic=6299.msg62313#msg62313 date=1105476222]

Not completely true...some people just have the fingers for it.  Studies have proven this.
Quote

This kind of studies can never be conclusive because you won't be able to find another pianist who had undergone the same type of vigorous training as Lang Lang had to compared with.

Offline SteinwayTony

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #19 on: January 12, 2005, 05:45:06 PM »
Quote
This kind of studies can never be conclusive because you won't be able to find another pianist who had undergone the same type of vigorous training as Lang Lang had to compared with.

...Except for, you know, every child pianist in China...

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #20 on: January 12, 2005, 06:02:15 PM »


...Except for, you know, every child pianist in China...

As I said before, Lang Lang's technique is nothing if you compare him with the present active pianists.  No need to compare him with future Chinese pianists. Why is Lang Lang's tone so lousy? Haha!

Offline argerich_smitten

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #21 on: January 12, 2005, 09:34:18 PM »
I would agree that there is some jealousy of Lang Lang in the musical community, but I do not think it is because of his technique, musical sensitivity, race, or even anything that has to do with the way he plays the piano.

my brief couple cents on Lang Lang (please feel free to skip)

I think he has a fabulous technique; he plays very efficiently.  I referred to his Don Juan video numerous times to analyze his technical solutions in some places I was having difficulty with.
Musically, I think he is a bit shallow now.  He plays with some musical sensitivity, but his playing strikes me as 'surface playing' (hence the word shallow I suppose), and it is often over-exaggerated and fake sounding.  (by surface playing I mean I will not notice anything the second and third time around that I did not notice the first time) 

however, I don't believe that these are the reasons (if any) that pianists are jealous of him. 

At this time in history, a successful career in piano (and many other professions) relies incredibly heavy on the way one markets oneself.  Oppinions of Lang Lang differ, but almost everyone agrees his playing is not profound.  It is not the best playing the world has ever seen; yet he is enjoying perhaps the cushiest piano career the world has seen.  He has marketed himself flawlessly.  Many people who do not pay any attention to the piano world know who he is because of such escapades as the recent 60 Minutes episode.
Lang Lang aggrivates other pianists because he is the best example that the marketing of one's skill is equally or even more important than the skill itself (playing the piano). 

Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #22 on: January 13, 2005, 05:26:43 AM »
I think incessant criticism of Lang Lang's performance might be just one attempt to justify that he does not deserve such fame and success (but people can't admit he does). I'm sure he's been working really hard to achieve his current status. I guess some of people on this forum are just bitter. There could be some people here with the    comparable potentials as Lang Lang has, but he happens to be what the general population likes to see. Just my thought!       

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #23 on: January 13, 2005, 07:47:52 AM »
Argerich_smitten and forgrieg seem to think that other people are bitter about  Lang Lang. I think they are only trying to stop people from criticizing Lang Lang.

Argerich_smitten wrote:

[I would agree that there is some jealousy of Lang Lang in the musical community, but I do not think it is because of his technique, musical sensitivity, race, or even anything that has to do with the way he plays the piano.]

My reply:

This is not jealousy. People speaking out against him because they don't want to see classical music being distorted by Lang Lang, they don't want to see Lang Lang promoting weird classical music and to see Lang Lang taking up too much space in this field at the expense of other pianists ( Lang Lang is giving about hundred and fifty concerts a year, even close to two hundred at one time  from what I heard).
Most of those concert-goers are not able to tell what is artistic playing and what is not. To them, fast, loud and dazzling playing is good playing, This is especially true in US. Would these people attend other pianists’ concerts after listening to Lang Lang? Probably not.  Why attend other pianists’ concerts if they believe they have already heard the best in the world after seeing that CBS 60 minutes program?  They may also lack the time and money attending too many concerts. You may like to argue that Lang Lang is promoting classical music and that he is only drawing fresh newcomers to classical music and so other pianists are not affected at al. But can you draw newcomers that easily? If one is seldom exposed to classical music, he won't switch to classical music from pop music that easily. Instead, you often find people switching from classical to pop music easily.

[I think he has a fabulous technique; he plays very efficiently.  I referred to his Don Juan video numerous times to analyze his technical solutions in some places I was having difficulty with]

Not that fabulous. Lang Lang is the most over rated pianist I have come across. We need to compare him with performing pianists, not with you. His Don Juan sometimes sounded like a wild cat screaming when he just swept those notes thoughtlessly. You don't notice any emotion coming from Lang Lang's heart when he played this piece and yet quite a lot of people seemed to be very impressed by the way he played. Is classical music merely some dazzling playing?


[Musically, I think he is a bit shallow now.  He plays with some musical sensitivity, but his playing strikes me as 'surface playing']

I believe that Lang Lang will never be able to play classical music in the way it should be played. He gives you the impression that he is merely calculating the length of each note instead of playing from his heart ( It's more obvious when he played romantic pieces).  For his inability to play from his heart, he just makes it up with his ridiculous facial expression. If one is not born with the ability to understand music, how to expect any insightful playing from such piannist? I haven't been able to enjoy a single piece played by Lang Lang and I have given up listening to him again. I think Lang Lang is polluting classical music.

[At this time in history, a successful career in piano (and many other professions) relies incredibly heavy on the way one markets oneself. ]

We don't want marketing to be done at the expense of us, the consumers, or other pianists.  A bad product can sometimes sell very well for a very long time. We, the consumers are certainly the losers.  Now that Lang Lang is filthy rich and hence is able to apply all kinds of marketing tactic to promote himself. What about other fresh but more artistic pianists? Will they remain obscure for their whole life simply because they don't have the money to market themselves? Whatever tactic Lang Lang may like to apply, I hope other pianists' lives are not affected.

 [ It is not the best playing the world has ever seen]

To say that 'it is not the best playing the world has ever seen’is to mislead people into believing that Lang Lang's playing is closed to the best. We are not expecting the best playing from Lang Lang, but we don't want him to distort classical music. Many Chinese reporters are promoting Lang Lang as a piano genius. I guess this is one of the way one could market oneself? To be called a genius in one particular field, one needs to be reasonably good in that field. Lang Lang doesn't even have musicality which is the basic requirement in the field of classical music, how to call him a genius? Ridiculous! This is the result of Lang Lang's marketing tactic.

Who is going to kill classical music if truly good artistic playing is not given enough attention? This is really what we object to. We criticize not because we are jealous of Lang Lang.



Offline willcowskitz

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #24 on: January 13, 2005, 08:14:24 AM »
Playing the ethnicity and jealousy cards is not enough to explain the massive amount of criticism towards Lang Lang's musicality. It will cease to have any credibility as "reason" for why Lang Lang is being continuously bashed.

Why doesn't anyone defend his musicality, with a basis for his views? You can always say its fully subjective but we have to draw the line between creativity and imitation somewhere - and I think musicians should also be capable of the former - so why not present some material, even if just thoughts or attention on details, that would imply Lang Lang to possess understanding of the music he plays?

Offline galonia

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #25 on: January 13, 2005, 10:39:14 AM »
Look, if Lang Lang wants to promote the hell out of himself, he's more than welcome to.  I don't see what's wrong with it, all musicians promote themselves, you'd be an idiot not to.

And if people want to waste good money to buy his CDs or go to his concerts, good for them.  They have a right to try his music, and they even have a right to like it.  Whether or not they are musically educated is irrelevant, because if they like it, then they like it.

It doesn't even matter if LL has good technique or not, if he's musical or not, if he is the best or not; if you enjoy his music you should go listen to him, if you don't enjoy it, you don't have to listen to him.

It's that simple.  Free will, freedom of choice, that's what it's all about.  Exercise yours.

Offline Da Bachtopus

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #26 on: January 13, 2005, 12:53:33 PM »

It's that simple.  Free will, freedom of choice, that's what it's all about.  Exercise yours.

How free is choice that is influenced by hefty amounts of advertising and sensational media representation?

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #27 on: January 13, 2005, 01:24:36 PM »
Look, if Lang Lang wants to promote the hell out of himself, he's more than welcome to.  I don't see what's wrong with it, all musicians promote themselves, you'd be an idiot not to.

It's that simple.  Free will, freedom of choice, that's what it's all about.  Exercise yours.

Have you come across a pianist promoting himself in such a big scale and at the expense of others?

How free? Even if it's morally unacceptable?

Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #28 on: January 13, 2005, 08:47:26 PM »
tibidi

I'm not trying to stop people on this forum from criticizing Lang Lang. Nobody's perfect, not even the best pianists around the world these days... I'm not a huge fan of Lang Lang, either,  when it comes to musical interpretation. It just seems to me that I've never seen a pianist who's been subject to more criticism than Lang Lang. I'm not quite sure about promoting himself at the expense of the others, but I think he's been doing a wonderful job at drawing the public's attention back to classical music, which is really good to see. All I'm saying is that he deserves some credit. Peace. 

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #29 on: January 14, 2005, 01:31:36 PM »
Are you sure you are not a fan Of Lang Lang? There are fans of Lang Lang just everywhere and every website. Poor Yundi!

Offline Motrax

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #30 on: January 14, 2005, 05:06:23 PM »
I would say that Lang Lang gets as much criticism as he does due to his vast amounts of press and promotion. If he lived by reputation alone, as many pianists do, he probably would not be the target of so much flak because people wouldn't care so much. But considering the amount of popularity Lang Lang has acheived, he draws attention to himself from people who have many... colorful... opinions of him.  ;) Furthermore, because he is spoken about a great deal, Lang Lang also gets a great deal of admiration from those who like him and feel his name is maligned too much.

Although people don't talk about them as much on this particular forum, Yundi Li, Pogorelich, Argerich, and Helfgott are a few pianists who come to mind who get a great deal of criticism as well (some of it deserved, some not). But as they havent' appeared on 60 Minutes, people don't mention them quite so much (though I guess Helfgott got a lot of criticism imediately following the release of Shine).

My opinion of Lang Lang is certainly abysmal, but I don't dislike him any more than I dislike other pianists who I feel are devoid of musical substance.
"I always make sure that the lid over the keyboard is open before I start to play." --  Artur Schnabel, after being asked for the secret of piano playing.

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #31 on: January 14, 2005, 08:07:03 PM »
Why do I dislike Lang Lang?

He is the most unmusical pianist I have known and he covers it with false expressions on his face. He even turned his face constantly towards the audiences while playing on stage to make sure that everyone believed that he was playing from his heart. Instead of arousing audiences’ emotions with his music, he did it with lots of body movements. Some music critics even described it as phoney.  This is not the main reason for me to dislike him. What I really dislike about Lang Lang is his aggressiveness. How could people dislike a person so much  simply because he has received too much public attention? Misleading!

Fans of Lang Lang used to criticize Yundi’s music in a ridiculous way at various websites before Yundi won the New York Times CD prize. Now they realize that it will be ridiculous to attack Yundi’s music after Yundi had won the important CD prize, so they pretended to praise Yundi but of course they never forget to defend Lang Lang when it’s really necessary.  Some of them even criticized Lang Lang harshly. Why? Well, it’s not a secret any more that Lang Lang is lacking musicality after criticisms given by quite a few of music critics. So some fans of Lang Lang may criticize Lang Lang harshly to make themselves appeared to be fair so that when it’s really necessry to defend Lang Lang, their words will carry more weight. Each of fans of Lang Lang has a different role to play, haha! Surprised by my high IQ? Haha! No, it has nothing to do with IQ, I am only speaking from my experience. They can fool me once, but they cannot fool me forever, haha!

Hope that all pianists will compete with each other in a fair manner

Offline musik_man

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #32 on: January 15, 2005, 12:21:53 AM »
tibidi, I really hope there's some sarcasm in that post that I missed.  I could care less what everyone's opinions on LL are (I don't have any cd's by him,) but that's conspiracy-theorizing of the worst form.  Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe people who criticize LL actually don't like him, and that people who praise him do like him.  There's a principle called Ockham's Razor, that the simplest explanation for something is the most likely to be true.  And that seems a bit simpler than LL being an evil genius, commanding hordes of his fans to attack him so that they can infiltrate the ranks of Yundi fans, only to betray them when LL deems it to his advantage.

*accepts his payoff from Lang Lang*
 ::)
/)_/)
(^.^)
((__))o

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #33 on: January 15, 2005, 03:46:27 AM »
I don't know if there has been any conspiracy.

Why is there never shortage of people trying very hard to peak out for Lang Lang all the time?

Why were there so many people attacking Yundi  for the past few years but there was not a single soul but me trying to defend him? 



Offline musik_man

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #34 on: January 15, 2005, 04:44:53 AM »
Quote
Why is there never shortage of people trying very hard to peak out for Lang Lang all the time?

From all the stuff I read here, Lang Lang has nearly no one defending him.  At most some people object to all the harsh criticism he gets.  Perhaps it's different elsewhere.
/)_/)
(^.^)
((__))o

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #35 on: January 15, 2005, 05:41:30 AM »


From all the stuff I read here, Lang Lang has nearly no one defending him.  At most some people object to all the harsh criticism he gets.  Perhaps it's different elsewhere.

Correction: I mean speak out for Lang Lang.

The only difference I notice from this site is that I haven't been blocked so far, but there has been a rearrangement of my post not long ago without any explanation even after I had asked for a reason.  I had mentioned before that  I was blocked for more than ten times by a few websites ( Some of them just block my IP so that I couldn't register again). What had I done to deserve this treatment? I was only trying to defend Yundi. After seeing  so much false criticisms about Yundi written there, I pasted up some  good reviews about Yundi written by some western music critics, but they were all deleted - some websites deleted them immediately, some a few days later, some a few months later. When there was senseless attack on Yundi such as  attack on his music, his teachers, Yundi's personality, nobody had ever tried to stop them, but if I criticized Lang Lang’s music mildly ( not as harsh as those I have written here), I was warned and scolded by those site masters and I was even told that I was not welcome there and hence I must leave. Is that fair? That is not all, ever since Yundi had won that competition, there had been lots of nonsense written about him by newspapers and magazines. These media never forget to praise Lang Lang at the same time. You see less of this nonsense nowadays, instead, you see people trying to seize opportunities to praise Lang Lang every time they report on Yundi.

If you say there hasn't been anyone here at this site trying to defend Lang Lang, this is obviously not true. For example, do you consider yourself as one such person?

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #36 on: January 15, 2005, 05:53:45 AM »
Lang Lang has 10  publicists to create the image of a polished, worldly genius for him.

Our world is sick. Is Lang Lang a genius if he doesn't even have the basic quality MUSICALITY for music?

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #37 on: January 15, 2005, 06:06:26 AM »
I shouldn't have said that all good reviews for Yundi have been deleted by those sites. Some sites had deleted them all, some sites still keep some of them.

Offline chromatickler

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #38 on: January 15, 2005, 11:13:32 AM »
Lang Lang is the most over rated pianist I have come across. We need to compare him with performing pianists, not with you.
Hahahahaha TIBIDI u pregnant cat!!! we dont deny yo genius but dat waz just wrong man. u randomly dissed da RASTA -da ownah of da 10/1 at 1'21

 8)

Offline Brian Healey

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #39 on: January 16, 2005, 06:25:00 AM »
Peformance-wise, I don't have strong feelings either way between Yundi Li and Lang Lang (the often-compared duo). With both guys, I dislike things, but there are other things I like. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that I've seen numerous interviews with Lang Lang on TV, and I like the fact that he doesn't appear to take himself too seriously. Also, for all his faults, he is very energetic and straightforward when he speaks about his music, and to me that says that he is enjoying himself. I don't get that feeling from Yundi Li. That joy is all that really matters.

By the way, a lot of people comment on the way Lang moves around when he plays. I think it's pretty ridiculous as well, but if you think he's bad, you should see Keith Jarrett. What a spazz!


Who's got your undies Walter?,
Bri

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #40 on: January 16, 2005, 08:41:16 AM »

 That joy is all that really matters.


That is why one music critic compared Lang Lang with a semi-classical music pianist Liberace.

Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #41 on: January 16, 2005, 09:34:00 AM »
I think it's very difficult to maintain the objectivity of one's opinion about Lang Lang when he or she has not yet attained the degree of success and popularity that he has already done. It's just going to look like mere jealousy to other people no matter what the truth is.. I also think that making one positive comment about Lang Lang (in spite of his other shortcomings) does not automatically make me a failthful adherent of his. We want to emphasize good aspects in a person, right?   

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #42 on: January 16, 2005, 12:14:33 PM »
So, all those music critics who had criticized Lang Lang harshly in the past must be  jealous of Lang Lang too.

Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #43 on: January 16, 2005, 07:54:53 PM »
Well, obviously you're not seeing my point. Keep in mind "look like" and "no matter what the truth is" in the previous post. I think this topic has already been discussed extensively, so I guess this would be the end of the discussion for me.

Peace,   

Offline xvimbi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #44 on: January 16, 2005, 08:21:16 PM »
I think it's very difficult to maintain the objectivity of one's opinion about Lang Lang when he or she has not yet attained the degree of success and popularity that he has already done. It's just going to look like mere jealousy to other people no matter what the truth is.. I also think that making one positive comment about Lang Lang (in spite of his other shortcomings) does not automatically make me a failthful adherent of his. We want to emphasize good aspects in a person, right?   

Sorry, but it "looks like" jealousy only to ignorant people who have even less credibility than those who dish out the critizism. There are very cogent arguments why many people think LL's status does not reflect his skills as a musician. There are far less cogent arguments from those who think his status is deserved. Their arguments usually involve jealousy, and even racism, but I have not really heard anything that would successfully defend LL's musical abilities.

People who use the jealousy or racism cards can't be taken seriously, and so can't be anybody who says one has to be able to play better than LL in order to judge his abilities. Music is judged by LISTENING, not by playing. As long as one can distinguish a bad from a good performance, one can be a competent and credible critic. Being a piano virtuoso is absolutely not necessary.

Sorry that I am still getting wound up about this issue, but I finally want to see a serious and mature discussion about LL's, Yundi Li's or anybody else's musicianship.

Offline tibidi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #45 on: January 17, 2005, 08:12:13 AM »

Sorry that I am still getting wound up about this issue, but I finally want to see a serious and mature discussion about LL's, Yundi Li's or anybody else's musicianship.

I have been very serious about Lang Lang. All that I had said about Lang Lang are what some music critics and I truly believe.

xvimbi had tried to associate Lang Lang's weird interpretation with radical idea and novel interpretation. This is what xvimbi wrote at the other thread:

Radical ideas and novel interpretations rarely translate into something truely outstanding. It mostly translates into rubbish. Lang Lang is producing a lot of rubbish right now. A lot of eventually famous pianists did the same at his age. Perhaps, he will come around and enlighten us with something profound in the future. At the moment, he is a spoiled "superstar" who runs around with Ray Ban shades and feels really cool about himself. The way he gives autographs is appaling and extremely arrogant, and it translates into his playing. There are a lot of other young and promising pianists on the circuit who deserve much more attention.

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5403.0.html

If what xvimbi said is true, Lang Lang would have abandoned his radical idea and novel interpretation long ago after seeing so much criticisms about his playing. Why carry on with this kind of playing all these years?  It’s obvious that he is unable to change himself because he is simply born not a musical person.


Offline doggone

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #46 on: January 28, 2005, 08:31:19 AM »
Did anyone manage to record the Lang Lang 60 Minutes program?   I have a sizable collection of pianist videofiles if anyone wants to trade...

Respondents please e-mail me privately: doggone@walla.com

Offline Rockitman

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #47 on: January 28, 2005, 04:21:17 PM »
Lang Lang is a programmed machine.   This is the fault of his teachers and parents.
They forgot to teach him to use his heart as well as his fingers.   
Warning!!!  Racist statement coming..............

Just like many many other Asian pianists I have viewed performing,  very technical, little or no emotion.   They are just playing notes.   


Sorry all you Asians on this forum.   I am just reporting what I have seen.   

That reminds me,  has anyone ever seen a good black classical pianist?   Now that is a rare breed.   

Offline chromatickler

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #48 on: January 28, 2005, 04:35:19 PM »
That reminds me,  has anyone ever seen a good black classical pianist?   Now that is a rare breed.   

jamie foxx

Offline xvimbi

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Re: Lang Lang (60 Minutes)
«Reply #49 on: January 28, 2005, 05:16:58 PM »
That reminds me,  has anyone ever seen a good black classical pianist?   Now that is a rare breed.   

That's been discussed before, and lists have been presented. Andre Watts is probably the best known.



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