Playing songs in a different key by mistake

[20yearbreak]

I'm curious.  I've gone to a few piano festivals and at times you'll see a performer start to play something then stop and say something like "Sorry about that...  wrong key"

Do they practice these songs in different keys and just get confused or are they just playing by ear and then realize something isn't right?

[dcstudio]

Need more info... it could be what we call a "bit"...a joke .  They also could have just screwed up...and they are saying.."wrong key.". Playing something accidentally in the wrong key is a mistake by people who play by ear....and do it very well.  I play by ear and I can also read.  When I am asked to render an instant version of something I haven't played before I will use my ear.  It's kinda strange...I can play the tune...but remembering exactly what I played is difficult.  It's like it goes from my ear to my hands without involving my brain.  Sometimes when I am asked to play it again I will play it in a different key... and I won't even realize it.

Your brain tells you that you cannot play something without first learning it and practicing it.  This does not hold true forever.  I have been at this nearly 5 decades...I know the piano...and each key like the back of my hand.

GOOD question.

[keypeg]

I used to play in wrong keys because of how I first related to music.  I was introduced to movable do solfege when quite young, and it was the only thing I knew.  I then taught myself to play piano and a few other instruments like the recorder as a child, and from notation, but I read that notation still according to solfege.  So I would "find Do" --- in G major that Do is G; in D major that Do is D etc. - and hear and play everything from that Do, hearing my major and minor scales, intervals etc.  Consequently, I might start the music in the wrong key, including when looking at the notation, because Do is Do is Do is Do.  Since I was untaught most of my life, how I ended up relating to music is an anomaly.

I have been improving my ability to read music, and doing it in a real way, for a number of years.  I discovered recently that I am not that aware of whether a note is on the 2nd or 3rd line, or how many ledger lines there are altogether, because a lot of it has been so intervallic.  If you go up 4 from Sol to the next Do, it really doesn't matter what line and space that Sol and Do are on, because you are also hearing the whole thing.  It is a different wiring.

[maestroanth]

I'm curious.  I've gone to a few piano festivals and at times you'll see a performer start to play something then stop and say something like "Sorry about that...  wrong key"

Do they practice these songs in different keys and just get confused or are they just playing by ear and then realize something isn't right?

Well, I think it's a weird way to brag the fact that they can play the same piece in a different key.....

[dcstudio]

Well, I think it's a weird way to brag the fact that they can play the same piece in a different key.....

Harry.Connick Jr gave a talk at UNT a long time ago when I was there. He spoke of his last jury at his university where he accidentally played a Beethoven Sonata in the wrong key. He said the professor noticed and was displeased.  The audience chuckled and I remember thinking that same thing...that he was just bragging...I was so jealous..lol. 

[keypeg]

Well, I think it's a weird way to brag the fact that they can play the same piece in a different key.....

Why would admitting to a mistake be bragging?  As I wrote before, I used to start in wrong keys, and why.  It was embarrassing and annoying.  When you make a mistake, are you bragging that you can make mistakes?

[keypeg]

One thing that bothers me and that I fail to understand is why people seem to insist on seeing the worst in others.  The example here for example, that when people play in the wrong key, or tell an anecdote about playing in the wrong key, it must be for nefarious purposes.

Just now I picked up my alto recorder as I passed the table and started to play some old piece.  I do that when I'm stressed, and I happen to be stressed.  I found myself reworking some phrase, the fingering choices no longer worked as well as I put a slur elsewhere, and I wondered if I was in the right key.  I played it in a bunch of different keys.  Recorder was self-taught just like piano, but was never followed up by lessons.  So I was thinking: If somebody heard my struggles, would they think I'm "showing off"?

I encounter this world of seeing the worst in people everywhere.  Sometimes it's directed at me.  Sometimes, where I moderate, I get treatises about other members.  My music studies with teachers have been impacted here and there.  It's a miserable world and I hate it. It's a world of walking on eggshells.

Just had to get this off my chest. I'm not having a good day.

[dcstudio]

Why would admitting to a mistake be bragging?  As I wrote before, I used to start in wrong keys, and why.  It was embarrassing and annoying.  When you make a mistake, are you bragging that you can make mistakes?

The OP said he had seen this in live performances...at festivals and the like. That's why I am leaning towards it being a joke or a.chance to brag.    Playing a Beethoven sonata flawlessly in E instead of A is a mistake not many people can make.  It indicates an ear that is pretty darn amazing. When I am asked to play something I haven't played before...or recently...I sometimes will play it in the wrong key...or rather not the key I usually play it in...because I am using my ear to finger "app" which took me decades to develop. Harry was 19 when he did this.

[keypeg]

The OP said he had seen this in live performances...at festivals and the like. That's why I am leaning towards it being a joke or a.chance to brag.    Playing a Beethoven sonata flawlessly in E instead of A is a mistake not many people can make.  It indicates an ear that is pretty darn amazing. When I am asked to play something I haven't played before...or recently...I sometimes will play it in the wrong key...or rather not the key I usually play it in...because I am using my ear to finger "app" which took me decades to develop. Harry was 19 when he did this.

This is the original post you are referring to:

I'm curious.  I've gone to a few piano festivals and at times you'll see a performer start to play something then stop and say something like "Sorry about that...  wrong key"

Do they practice these songs in different keys and just get confused or are they just playing by ear and then realize something isn't right?

There is nothing to indicate flawless playing.  The question originally was whether it might be by ear, or what the cause might be.  I gave my two cents from my own experience.  I also wrote in today about my general discouragement about the tendency for people to seem to want to see the worst in others, a world of mutual suspicion. That is a 2nd post that perhaps you did not see while responding to the post before it.  
I try to be positive, practical, and helpful, since so many of us are learners, but there are days that this gets me down.

own experiences deleted.

[iansinclair]

I imagine that it could be "all of the above" -- depending on the circumstances or the musician!  What I might add to the confusion, though, is that this is a talent which voice recital accompanists pretty well have to have -- or did, in the days before transposing digital pianos.  Granted, they get a chance to rehearse (usually!) in the "wrong" key -- but if your soloist is, let's say for argument, a mezzo, but is singing a lieder originally written for, let's say a tenor, you'd better be able to transpose it!

[themeandvariation]

I'll posit that it is likely that he (Mr. Connick)learned the sonata by ear on an out of tune piano.  (Some students with some facility don't find this so difficult, and even easier than reading the music - for Them. Also, if this is one of the simpler (put together) sonatas - than even more so..
Also, the fact that it would feel totally different to the fingers in another key, definitely mitigating the idea of an "accident", (not to mention the ear ) is also somewhat a red flag, unless he was trained really old school, like playing any one of the 48 fugues transposed to any key upon suggestion, instantly (unlikely).. but one has to really practice up on this approach to get it…  
It is Not like doing a jazz standard - and then transposing it..  AS the fact of the complexity of multiple voices - polyphony attests.  (edit)

I could be wrong of course, but if i were a gambling guy…

[dcstudio]

I imagine that it could be "all of the above" -- depending on the circumstances or the musician!  What I might add to the confusion, though, is that this is a talent which voice recital accompanists pretty well have to have -- or did, in the days before transposing digital pianos.  Granted, they get a chance to rehearse (usually!) in the "wrong" key -- but if your soloist is, let's say for argument, a mezzo, but is singing a lieder originally written for, let's say a tenor, you'd better be able to transpose it!

Yep.  I learned to transpose at sight for vocal accompanying...out of necessity.

This is the original post you are referring to:There is nothing to indicate flawless playing.  

I'm sorry I was unclear...by flawless playing I was referring to Harry Connick's story about playing his jury piece in the wrong key.  Lots wrong with that story BTW.. which is why I thought he was bragging..lol.

The OP asked if these performers practice the same tune in different keys. I get the feeling he is talking about professionals...probably blues or boogie Woogie players. I have also seen this a time or two in concerts I have attended...it's always a joke. What pros...or at least this pro...never does is to draw attention to an error, or worse, stop the performance and tell the audience about it.  Let's face it...the audience has no idea what key it should be in...nor could the average audience member tell you if it wasn't.  

Like you yourself said..."why would anyone brag about a mistake."

[20yearbreak]

Thanks for the replies.  

I'll add a little more context.  

In one example, I know for sure one of them mentioned it just happens by accident sometimes and he notices because it feels different to his hands.  So I was kind of thinking he must be playing by ear.  He also had a list of tunes he knew though.  Maybe 100 or so...  he mentioned how he memorized which key each starts in to help prevent playing in the wrong key

In another example, I was talking to a young artist and he had just mentioned how he never forgets a tune once he hears it but he was another person who started playing and then stopped to make sure he put it in the right key.  Maybe he was just joking around?

For me, it's really difficult to comprehend how someone can accidentally play in the wrong key.  I struggle to play things correctly in the right key.  Like is it something that develops over time or are certain people just born with this ability?

 

[dcstudio]

It is Not like doing a jazz standard - and then transposing it..  AS the fact of the complexity of voicing attests.

I could be wrong of course, but if i were a gambling guy…

Well, jazz voicings can be far more complex than late classical piano sonatas.  Look up tunes like Lush Life.  Jazz tunes also can be far less predictable...sometimes...then their classical counterparts.
The difference is that there is a lot of leeway in standards as the performer is expected to add something of his own.  It is also way easier to transpose a lead sheet at sight then fully notated scores. Having done both I can say that it's not that Beethoven sonatas are so complex...it's that they have to be played exactly the same way regardless of what key you choose.  The classical vocal repertoire I have had to transpose is treated the same way. These pieces are generally published in different keys to accommodate different vocal registers.  In this instance it is understandable how an accompanist could, in theory, accidentally begin a piece in the wrong key.
That still isn't likely though. Lol

[themeandvariation]

Yes.. But by voicing , i was meaning following multiple voices concurrently .. Like the above mentioned fugues.  (not the idea of jazz 'voicing' for chords.. )
But yes, i agree - from an accompanying  POV.. and to boogie woogie   in all keys.. Remember, some of Beethoevns sonatas are quite long, and to play it in another key by Accident?.. and keep it intact?  Questionable.. I suppose i could sit down a play Moonlight in C minor, or D minor, etc,  w/o much trouble, (but it wouldn't be by accident) but, what of the Diabelli variations?? 

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I think people should be able to play pieces they know well (at least, ones which exist within a fairly normal tonal framework) in different keys on demand. It's a good way of establishing whether you have thought about all the harmonic relationships within a piece, and how good you are at re-fingering "on the fly". There are exceptions - I'm not sure I'd fancy the Hammerklavier fugue in different keys - but let's not forget that von Bulow expected pupils to be able to play the Appassionata in F# with no prior notice. Another good exception - try playing the last movement of Beethoven op 2 no 3 a tempo, in Db. Go on, try

[dcstudio]

For me, it's really difficult to comprehend how someone can accidentally play in the wrong key.  I struggle to play things correctly in the right key.  Like is it something that develops over time or are certain people just born with this ability?

 

OK you are talking about student festivals...totally not what I was picturing.  Lol.  Sometimes students will say "wrong key" when they mean wrong note.  Sometimes they will say it's in the wrong key when they have just started on the wrong note and are trying to use their muscle memory to plow through. 

Some people seem to be born with ears that can already hear everything...not just perfect pitch but an understanding of relative pitch as well.  Others have to train their ears to do this which can be so very frustrating.

[dcstudio]

Yes.. But by voicing , i was meaning following multiple voices concurrently .. Like the above mentioned fugues.  (not the idea of jazz 'voicing' for chords.. )
But yes, i agree - from an accompanying  POV.. and to boogie woogie   in all keys.. Remember, some of Beethoevns sonatas are quite long, and to play it in another key by Accident?.. and keep it intact?  Questionable.. I suppose i could sit down a play Moonlight in C minor, or D minor, etc,  w/o much trouble, (but it wouldn't be by accident) but, what of the Diabelli variations?? 

Can't argue with that...questionable to say the least any way you look at it..
.lol...that's why when Harry made the claim I got the impression he was bragging. Come on...he was at university..this was for his juries and he "forgot " what key it was in....sure...lol