teacher says to give up! help!

[olivialeonie]

Hi!
I am right now playing Mozarts Alla Turca and Debussys Arabesque 1 in E-major. I have been playing the piano for 6 years and i am 19 years old. My musictheory teacher (not my pianoteacher) said that i should give up on my dream to become an professional concertpianist because i am already to old and my pianoskill is to low for my age! is that true or should i continue "chasing" my dream?

Thanks for answering! 

[lostinidlewonder]

Sorry to nitpick but I am confused over how long you have been playing piano.

In this thread you say:

....I have been playing the piano for 6 years and i am 19 years old.

But in 2014 you posted:
"I have played the piano since 7 years but I think I am still not very good at it."
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=55826.msg601627#msg601627


I thought maybe you meant you started when you where 7 years old, but that would make you only around 10 years old now not 19.


Anyhow, yes don't chase a dream to become a professional concert pianist give up, its too difficult, no chance etc etc. Only if you are one minded enough will you be able to become a professional concert performer, don't care what people have to say to you about the issue and go about doing it.

[brogers70]

Music is great, but only a tiny fraction of people who love music can make a living at it. Your teacher has heard you play; my guess is your teacher is right. But music is still great, and it still makes life worth living, even if you have to do something else to earn money.

[dcstudio]

There are any more jobs for professionals other than world famous concert pianist.  I get the feeling that the OP is wanting a reaction something along the lines of" you can be whatever you want to be"...."your teacher is wrong"

Theory teacher...so you are a music major? 

A lot of what you're saying doesn't add up

[vaniii]

There are any more jobs for professionals other than world famous concert pianist.  I get the feeling that the OP is wanting a reaction something along the lines of" you can be whatever you want to be"...."your teacher is wrong"

Theory teacher...so you are a music major? 

A lot of what you're saying doesn't add up

DC, what I want to know is why teaching is spurned by most people as:

"Those who can't, teach!"

Do forgive me, but many of the tenured and visiting professors of conservatories spend most days teaching.

Even then a good teacher most certainly can.  The people you see as big name concert pianists make up a very thin slither of active professional musicians.

I know you get paid to play the piano, DC; I do too.

Agree or dissagree:

It does not matter how 'good' you are, if you have the wrong mindset you are destined to be unsuccessful.

I can count twelve local teachers and musicians who are not very good, but make a living in the profession because they are humble, and work within reality, with what they have available.

[milchhpiano]

First off, it's my opinion that your music theory teacher didn't explain it very well to you.

From what I know about the professional world of concert pianists is that isn't just about being on some level of greatness by a certain age. Yes, of course, competitions open up a lot of doors and it helps to be younger and better because people go ape for that (plus there are several competitions with the intention of discovering young artists). The ratio of "wunderkind" to older pianists being successful I believe to be unbalanced. HOWEVER -- this does not mean that you still cannot become successful. 19 isn't *that* old, you're in the cusp of young and being placed upon the semi-professional bracket in competitions.

This being said, as it was mentioned above, you have to be one-minded enough on the goal. Becoming a professional concert pianist is the absolute most competitive fields to go into music, and that's even counting violinists and vocalists as well. There is certainly no shortage of incredible players out there, and in today's society it isn't as marketable as it once was.

However these facts shouldn't discourage you. That would eliminate the point of what many people have stated, including myself. Use them to kindle the flame and work hard everyday doing something that you love. Music is something that we cannot live without. I think it is important to know that THAT is the one thing that separates successful musicians from those who are not (ie those who get gigs, who get praise and the most important: say something meaningful in their craft).

My jazz piano teacher in my undergrad gave me this tough advice, but the older I get the more true I see it becomes:

Don't chase the dream, chase the music.

Happy practicing!

[timothy42b]

Why is it:

Everybody who asks the question here defines success so narrowly?

The only goal for a piano player to aspire to seems to be concert pianist. 

That's the tiniest slice of the working musician profession.

and yes, if that's your only goal, and you haven't accomplished more than Alla Turca by age 19, you're not going to make it. 

But there's a huge musical world out there beyond that one narrow job.  And if you don't end up working in music for a living, there's still a huge avocational world available to you. 

It just won't be traveling from concert hall to concert hall playing Tchaik and Rach. 

[mishamalchik]

      To be honest, if after 6 years of playing you cannot play higher grade pieces with command, there's something very deficient about your method. If you're being honest, you haven't practiced enough. You haven't studied hard enough. You haven't pushed yourself the way you should have if your goal is to be a concert pianist. That's me being as blunt as I can be. But what you've done up until this point is irrelevant. It can't be changed. What you can do is change from this point forward; you need to either drastically change your methods or change your career plans.
     Lucas DeBargue didn't start playing until he was 20, and he very nearly won the Tchaikovsky competition. He's unbelievably great and while it's clear that he has a very inherent connection to music, I guarantee you that his practice regime dwarfs yours. I'm not saying you can't but I'm not saying you can either. In my perception, much of what it takes to be a concert pianist has nothing to do with your ability to play impeccably. However, if you want to even have a tiny chance, you need to legitimately revolutionize the way you're approaching piano because whatever you've been doing up until this point is quite inadequate.
    Apologies for the abruptness.
     

[dcstudio]

DC, what I want to know is why teaching is spurned by most people as:

"Those who can't, teach!"

Do forgive me, but many of the tenured and visiting professors of conservatories spend most days teaching.

Even then a good teacher most certainly can.  The people you see as big name concert pianists make up a very thin slither of active professional musicians.

I know you get paid to play the piano, DC; I do too.

Agree or dissagree:

It does not matter how 'good' you are, if you have the wrong mindset you are destined to be unsuccessful.

I can count twelve local teachers and musicians who are not very good, but make a living in the profession because they are humble, and work within reality, with what they have available.

And they show up ...on time. Oh yes that is the glamorous world of pro musicians isn't it? Welcome to showbiz folks.

OK it matters how good you are but at the same time if you are a complete douche to work with you will fail no matter how good you are. Playing professionally isn't about showing off your prowess.(most of the time)...it is about entertaining an audience and acting worthy of the work you are getting paid to do. Finding four people who can play is easy. Finding four egos that can play together for any length of time is nearly impossible.  Sometimes the better the player the bigger the ego. The inexperienced members here have a tendency to believe that everyone hears and loves music like they do.  They generally have no clue just how musically dumb most audiences are

.my point is that  it is not essential that you be some monster player to make a living anymore than becoming a monster player guarantees that you will make a living.

You wouldn't believe how long it took for me to get that concept.  I felt so guilty and unworthy of being called a musician when I played my first gigs. I am over that now. Lol

[flavenstein]

DC, what I want to know is why teaching is spurned by most people as:

"Those who can't, teach!"

I think you misunderstood her original post. She wasn't suggesting that OP become a music teacher because they won't make it as a performer, she was asking about their current circumstances (as in "You mentioned your theory teacher, does that mean you are in college?")

Just clarifying to avoid unnecessary arguing that happens so often here

[vaniii]

I think you misunderstood her original post. She wasn't suggesting that OP become a music teacher because they won't make it as a performer, she was asking about their current circumstances (as in "You mentioned your theory teacher, does that mean you are in college?")

Just clarifying to avoid unnecessary arguing that happens so often here

I understood DC completely, the point I was making is a certain mindset "those who can't, teach".

Many people enter higher education with the mind set of I get my degree, enter some competitions and find an agent.

Wrong!

I can remember clearly, some of my peers responding, when asked, what is your next step, literally: "I will put on a few recitals, enter some competitions and take it from there".  They did so, and did not win, and did not find an agent, and most of them left the profession.

The ones who are still making music, were the quieter ones who did, music.  They taught, they performed, they composed, they arranged, and were in many ways self sufficient.  They understood that their scope for music making would not be international, or national, but local, instead focusing there efforts of realistically becoming a music professional, within their means.

The ones who thought they would fall into a career, were surly mistaken and quit, mainly because they were not willing to work for it. Secondarily, because the reality failed to meet unrealistic expectations.

As DC said, of course, you do need some level of proficiency to even accompany, or get the gigs; but the unrealistic expectation of being an international concert pianist is just that unrealistic.  That pedigree of music was breed for the role; that is, from a family, for whom this was always the expectation, having access to good instruments, teaching with music as the sole priority in their life.  Just watch videos of them in their infancy; many big names were already at an entry-level of professional proficiency before they left single digits.  The time spent at university honing their maturity; they did not have a point to prove because they already had it, all to simply make music.

Do you think a young Yundi Li had to battle with anyone regarding his art; "Go get a real job", etc.  Do you think Latista had to beg her parents for access to a decent piano?  No they were encouraged, and respected at a young age, with a support system in place.  It's also worth mentioning that there was already a musical connection there who was able to offer advise on the best route; different form their teacher.

As some one previously mentioned, one track.

[keypeg]

Some valid and well-explained points here.  Also informative.

I'd like to add some additional different thoughts, without taking away from anything that has been written.  It's simply another angle.

I'm going to ignore the question of becoming a professional pianist, or professional anything for the moment.  I'm looking at the advice of the theory teacher that she is "already to old" and that for her age her piano skills are "too low".  Dunno - if my piano skills are deemed too low, I'd be switching gears and want to address that part.  Even if I won't go for a career after all, after investing 6 years I'd want to fix that part, even for my own enjoyment - but that's my mindset.  If that can be fixed, and after it's fixed, that's the time to look at careers and career choices again.

In one of Olivialeonie's old posts, she describes how lessons with her first teacher (6/7 years) went.  Take out a score; play it for the student to hear how it goes; student practises it all week (somehow), play it for teacher next lesson - teacher takes out a new score - wash, lather, repeat.  This suggests that she was not given the necessary skills, which is why they are currently "too low", and that if those skills were given, that the skills would no longer be that low.  To me this is the place to start with.

That said, doing an overhaul like that is hard work, and often a rethink of almost everything you've ever known.  If you get the right good teacher (a big if), and do pull it off, then among other things it would probably also make you a pretty good teacher yourself - because by then you'll have some solid in-depth understanding.  Otoh, I would not want (my child or myself) to be taught by someone who was poorly taught, has weak skills, and hasn't addressed them.

[dcstudio]

I understood DC completely, the point I was making is a certain mindset "those who can't, teach".

Many people enter higher education with the mind set of I get my degree, enter some competitions and find an agent.

Wrong!

I can remember clearly, some of my peers responding, when asked, what is your next step, literally: "I will put on a few recitals, enter some competitions and take it from there".  They did so, and did not win, and did not find an agent, and most of them left the profession.

The ones who are still making music, were the quieter ones who did, music.  They taught, they performed, they composed, they arranged, and were in many ways self sufficient.  They understood that their scope for music making would not be international, or national, but local, instead focusing there efforts of realistically becoming a music professional, within their means.

The ones who thought they would fall into a career, were surly mistaken and quit, mainly because they were not willing to work for it. Secondarily, because the reality failed to meet unrealistic expectations.

As DC said, of course, you do need some level of proficiency to even accompany, or get the gigs; but the unrealistic expectation of being an international concert pianist is just that unrealistic.  That pedigree of music was breed for the role; that is, from a family, for whom this was always the expectation, having access to good instruments, teaching with music as the sole priority in their life.  Just watch videos of them in their infancy; many big names were already at an entry-level of professional proficiency before they left single digits.  The time spent at university honing their maturity; they did not have a point to prove because they already had it, all to simply make music.

Do you think a young Yundi Li had to battle with anyone regarding his art; "Go get a real job", etc.  Do you think Latista had to beg her parents for access to a decent piano?  No they were encouraged, and respected at a young age, with a support system in place.  It's also worth mentioning that there was already a musical connection there who was able to offer advise on the best route; different form their teacher.

As some one previously mentioned, one track.

I honestly believed for most of my younger years, that if I reached a certain level of proficiency the rest would just fall onto place.  If I was super-amazing enough I would give off some kind of "warp-signature" that would be detected by the "piano-people" who would then come and take me away to my new life as a world famous concert pianist. 

[bernadette60614]

There is a great documentary titled "They Came to Play" about the Van Cliburn competition. The competitors are all pianists who do not make a living playing the piano...and they are incredible!  They are doctors, lawyers, teachers, and a variety of other professions, and the winners were terrific.

But, they do not make a living as concert artists.

I think your teacher was trying to calibrate your expectations based upon the reality of the professional musicianship "marketplace."

This doesn't mean you should give up your piano studies, but just be aware that making a living as a concert artist is a rarity.

[beethovenfan01]

I say, don't give up.

Your dream is going to come later than it does for most people--instead of touring at say, twenty-one or twenty-two, it's going to be a decade later. And it's a lot of work to get there.

This is coming from someone who hasn't yet.

What makes a great pianist--no, a musician? And understanding and connection to music, and the skill and desire to bring there understanding of that music to everyone else.

If you truly love music and keep working hard toward you goal, you will eventually achieve it. It'll just be later than everyone else.

Now, granted, you're going to have to find some other means of income between now and then--but that's your concern, not mine. There's a reason competitions max out at thirty-ish, not twenty. This next decade is when you will grow the most as a musician! You and me both, we're right on the cusp of our greatest leaps and advances in music yet.

Don't give up. It's too soon. You'll only regret it later, thirty years down the road.

[timothy42b]

I say, don't give up.

Your dream is going to come later than it does for most people--instead of touring at say, twenty-one or twenty-two, it's going to be a decade later. And it's a lot of work to get there.

Sigh.

A touring concert artist is simply not the only way or even the best way to measure success. 

It's also by far the least likely to happen. 

It's a distant dream, one that's fun to think about, like winning the lottery, only less probable.  It can give you endless hours of satisfying fantasy.  There's nothing wrong with that.  It may even be a motivator to keep practicing when you don't feel like it. 

And that allows you to avoid making real assessments and real decisions.  You can drift into fast food retail for a career without any guilt, thinking you didn't make that life choice, it just happened on the way to your "real" career. 

There are many ways for a skilled keyboardist to supplement income from a day job while having a huge amount of fun.  There is a slightly less, but still significant number of ways to earn a decent living short of becoming that touring concert artist. 

[vaniii]

It's a distant dream, one that's fun to think about, like winning the lottery, only less probable.  It can give you endless hours of satisfying fantasy.  There's nothing wrong with that.  It may even be a motivator to keep practicing when you don't feel like it.

The problem is, if you a person spends all your their time fantasizing, it's likley that your they not practicing correctly.  Students like this spend hours trying to re-create a performance they heard of a concert pianist, rather than actually learning how to play and understand music.

See all the bad performances of Op 27 No 2 first movement ... or god forbid, the last.

There are many options for music professional that are not the coverted concert pianist.

There are many rites of passage to prove your caliber and worth as a performer, without being a signed concert pianist.

I agree with 'timothy42b', it is just not logical or realistic to continue aiming for something that will never happen; especially if it serves no other purpose than ego massaging.

[zxiao9]

Hey I was in a pretty similar situation as you I started playing the piano really late but last year I started wanting to go into professional. Luckily my piano instructor is very encouraging. Becoming a concert pianist is a dream of mine, but I do acknowledge that at some point of age people stop becoming Evgeny Kissins or Lang Langs. I'm ready to see where music brings me and I'd just want to share music with more people. Good luck to us both!

[dcstudio]

Must it be "concert pianist".  Would you be happy to simply be able to make a living playing the piano? Define what a concert pianist means to you personally.  If you were the guest pianist for a college orchestra performing Rhapsody in Blue could you call yourself a concert pianist afterwards? Does having an agent mean you are worthy of the title? Winning a competition? 

How much education will you need to achieve your dream?

[bernadette60614]

Something to consider:

Do you want to spend 5 to 9 hours a day practicing?

There are those rarities who practice very little, but those are rarities.

My teacher is a working musician who teaches, performs with ensembles, and does concerts (not in major venues, but local ones.)  She practices 5 hours a day and she has been playing piano since the age of 5, and attended a music conservatory as a high school student.

You can have a life in music (I think many of us here, to some degree or another, do), but it doesn't have to mean that music is your life.  However, if you decide that music will be your life, you have to go back to your teacher and ask:  Give me a curriculum which will help me achieve this dream and tell me how to approach mastering that curriculum.

[adodd81802]

I honestly believed for most of my younger years, that if I reached a certain level of proficiency the rest would just fall onto place.  If I was super-amazing enough I would give off some kind of "warp-signature" that would be detected by the "piano-people" who would then come and take me away to my new life as a world famous concert pianist. 

Isn't that how we all think Post that 1 youtube vid and wait for the cash and offers to come streaming in!

[adodd81802]

Hi!
I am right now playing Mozarts Alla Turca and Debussys Arabesque 1 in E-major. I have been playing the piano for 6 years and i am 19 years old. My musictheory teacher (not my pianoteacher) said that i should give up on my dream to become an professional concertpianist because i am already to old and my pianoskill is to low for my age! is that true or should i continue "chasing" my dream?

Thanks for answering! 

Your teacher is probably right. Not much more to say to be honest. Focus on making a living.

[dcstudio]

Your teacher is probably right. Not much more to say to be honest. Focus on making a living.

Addod may sound a bit harsh but this subject has been done to death on the forum. We frequently get new members who want to be concert pianists but have not taken the time to find out exactly what that means.  They usually have only just started playing or just returned to playing again after quitting years earlier.  They all post this same question and some get very hostile when they don't receive at outpouring of support from other members.  What most of these future concert pianists want is the fame and glory they have imagined in their piano fantasyland. That is the end goal...but they have no plan to make that happen.

9 times out of 10 these people have experienced a life-changing event within the last six months.  Death of a loved one or loss of a relationship are most common.

[keypeg]

I addressed something that I strongly suspect is underlying, and needs to be looked at first.  I wouldn't mind it being skimmed except now we have "Your teacher is probably right." with support of that opinion coming right after.   No - in terms of not having skills after 6 years - that teacher is not "right", and I addressed this.  There are things that come before the question of a career.
In the meantime, the OP has not responded at all since opening the thread.

[timothy42b]

I addressed something that I strongly suspect is underlying, and needs to be looked at first.  I wouldn't mind it being skimmed except now we have "Your teacher is probably right." with support of that opinion coming right after.   

keypeg raises a good point, though........with some trepidation.......it isn't precisely what the OP asked. 

The OP asked, can I make it to concert pianist at my age?  and the answer from most is, no, not at your skill level.

But keypeg points out that a low skill level after 6 years of lessons is a problem in itself.  (I think that's what you're saying.)  Six years of consistent practice with a decent teacher should have produced more skills.  We have the OP dedicated to a music career, we can guess and hope she does practice.  Given average talent, one possible conclusion is a deficiency in this teacher. 

If the OP follows the consensus and backs away from a concert solo career, she still should become the best she can, and that won't happen with a bad teacher. 

[bernadette60614]

Just adding:

We attended Benjamin Grovesnor's debut concert in our city and after an amazing afternoon, I did some further research on him. There is a great series on YouTube titled "So you want to be a concert pianist", which sheds some light (lots of lights...it is a fairly detailed series) on the road to becoming a concert artist.