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Topic: Stamaty Etude in F Major Op. 38, no. 2  (Read 2952 times)

Offline 1piano4joe

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Stamaty Etude in F Major Op. 38, no. 2
on: February 07, 2017, 05:26:11 AM
Hi all,

I have a question about the right hand in measure 26. There are two "b flats" in that measure.

I don't think that's right. I think they should be "b naturals".

The YouTubers are ignoring the score and playing b natural so I'm thinking this is a typo?

Thank you, Joe.



Offline keypeg

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Re: Stamaty Etude in F Major Op. 38, no. 2
Reply #1 on: February 07, 2017, 11:31:52 PM
I found a score on IMSLP - the only one they have.  It is definitely B natural, both in the score I found, and in what makes sense..  In this part of the music there is a temporary tonality of E major, with a B7 being the V7 of E major.  m. 24 - E - m. 25 & 26 B7 - m. 27 E, and then it starts moving again.

Offline 1piano4joe

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Re: Stamaty Etude in F Major Op. 38, no. 2
Reply #2 on: February 08, 2017, 02:33:37 AM
Hi keypeg,

Thank you for your reply.  I have the IMSLP score but it's a b flat in the score and not b natural. The b flats occur in that score on beat 2 and again on the upbeat of beat 3. There are no natural signs anywhere in that measure in my score.

Does your score say H.2645. at the bottom of the page? Just above that and to the right is the measure in question. This piece is in the key of F Major. If there are no natural signs those 2 notes should be flatted as there is one flat, "b flat" in F Major.

Does your score actually show "natural signs" in the right hand?

I understand completely "V7, I" which in this case is B7 to E. That's one reason I think the score is wrong. Secondly, in several places in the piece the 1st note is always repeated 3 times. The R.H. pinky plays 3 c's right from the beginning. It actually does that 4 times if I counted correctly. Lastly, it sounds funky with a B flat there.

I have another score and it too, has no natural signs in that measure.

Thank you for taking the time to look up the score at IMSLP and your analysis of the temporary tonality. That's exactly what I was thinking.

Thanks again, Joe.

Offline keypeg

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Re: Stamaty Etude in F Major Op. 38, no. 2
Reply #3 on: February 08, 2017, 03:44:47 AM
It's this one: https://ks.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/8f/IMSLP46726-PMLP99529-Stamaty_CHant_et_M__canisme_Op.38_.pdf  and yes, H2645 on the bottom.  It is super faded, so maybe the natural signs look like flats signs on yours.

Offline 1piano4joe

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Re: Stamaty Etude in F Major Op. 38, no. 2
Reply #4 on: February 08, 2017, 05:04:59 PM
Hi keypeg,

I looked at your link and yes that's the one I have. Neither one has natural signs.

The measure I'm talking about starts with f#, then a Bb, f# again since the # sign applies for the whole measure, then Bb is the final note of that measure which is slurred over the bar line to an e in the following measure.

I don't see faded natural signs. I don't see anything.

There are two natural signs in that measure in the bass clef. The 1st one is necessary. Is the 2nd one a "courtesy" or is it necessary since it's an octave higher?

Okay, I just found this...

"The sign applies only to the line or space where it first appears; if the same note appears in another octave, or, in the case of multi-staves scores on another staff, the accidental must be restated (see the high B natural). Contrast this with the rule for signs appearing in the key signature which apply to all relevant notes in any octave on the stave."

That's what I thought and was taught. If I apply that rule, then the 2nd natural (an octave higher) is NOT considered a "courtesy" and is necessary. Doesn't that also mean that the natural sign does not apply to any other clefs?

Anyway, I'm learning and enjoying this etude very much. I'm playing it with a "b natural". May the score be damned.

Thank you, Joe.

P.S. I found this..."The rules for applying accidentals are simple to state today, but, hundreds of years ago, the rules varied from composer to composer and from country to country. They could be said to be 'confused' and for us today 'confusing'."

Offline keypeg

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Re: Stamaty Etude in F Major Op. 38, no. 2
Reply #5 on: February 08, 2017, 06:28:16 PM
It could be the resolution of our monitors.  I have fairly large monitors because I use my computer professionally. What you are talking about is on the bottom of the first page - there are natural signs which are so faded that I barely see them, so they may be invisible to you.  I see a B7 going to E, and I also hear it in performances. 
Yes to what you wrote about notation.  Also be aware that editions can contain mistakes.

Offline 1piano4joe

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Re: Stamaty Etude in F Major Op. 38, no. 2
Reply #6 on: September 01, 2020, 02:54:24 AM
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