Night and day, Maple Leaf Rag, bandstand boogie...by dcstudio

[dcstudio]

I posted this in a string...asking about practice routines. Guys, sometimes this is all I do...just run through stuff. I am here to tell you that you will reach a point after 4 or 5 decades where practicing as you know it now will cease to exist forever.  Your hands will just know what to do

Although sometimes it's not exactly what the composer had in mind. Fresh link.
.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kh54qr4182a7rhq/VIDEO0011.mp4?dl=0

[themeandvariation]

dc.. i know that this is just a run-thru - and just warming up the fingers - but thought i should mention that in the Maple leaf- in bar 9, (the whole measure) is a D diminished chord, (which is then again use in bar 13).. I think you're playing an E major there…which Does however appear (as f flat major:) in bars 11 and 15…but not in the other spots.. (probably just a memory thing)

[toughbo]

link expired

[keypeg]

The great Pavarotti, at the end of his life, said "I am still a student."  I have a book co-authored by Menuhin, where he writes of the infinite challenge of music, of always being able to reach higher and do more - perfection does not exist and that is a good thing.  Who wants to be "done"?  What then, after that?  I listened to the clip while it was up.  It was played in a non-sterile way that carried me along.  My ear is not attuned to jazz as it is to some classical, so I didn't know of the diminished chord - if it didn't sound bad, then it must have worked - only that a dim chord will create a different shimmer of mood than a major chord - but if it works, musicianship is still there.  The argument has been about pulling in an audience - this is a actually a continuation of a topic about practising in another section (as mentioned) - and the audience factor was operative here.

I was sort of sorry to see the original recording pulled though I understood why.  If PianoStreet is a safe and supportive place, where we all lift each other up and where growth is lifelong (as per Pavarotti), then it would have been cool to hear a new version with that diminished chord - I have no doubt you could pull that off in short order dc.  It would be interesting to hear side by side how it sounds with the E7 vs. the dim - what it does to the music.  I am perpetually a learner and learning to hear chords and their flavour is a current ongoing theme.

added:
I'm also thinking about the statement in the opening post, referring back to the thread discussing practising which includes this:

Your hands will just know what to do.

If indeed that chord should be as themeandvariation stated, there is no irony - because you have all the chords in your fingers from those decades, and so an adjustment or correction would be a simple matter.  A beginnerish or even intermediate student will have to work super hard to learn the "other" chord and bring it in with the melody because it's not under the fingers.  The statement still holds true.

[themeandvariation]

Key,
you mention :"musicianship is still there"

I suppose then that you missed the botched cadence in the second section, which also happened on its repeat.. This does betray a certain casualness, (and OKness) with something a bit too close to sloppy). Sometimes - the hands here apparently don't always know what to do.
Sorry dc, but i had to say.

[dcstudio]

I have been playing MLR for 40 years and it has morphed into something else...every time I hear someone else play it I always say I am going to pull out the sheet music and fix my errors...but I never do.  You are right...and I will refresh the link.

As you may have guessed I didn't post my best playing. I can take it, been doing this a while.  So many are afraid of the backlash so they don't post...figured I would put it out there anyway.  I am not flawless and I have never claimed to be.  I can, however, play a 3 hour solo gig, take requests, and entertain a crowd.  They don't dock my pay when I flub a note either.  I am still a student, too...plenty of room for improvement...
. 

[themeandvariation]

Thanks for saying ,dc.  I hope you also post sections 3 and 4 of the MLR (as it should be played the whole way, right? 

[keypeg]

Key,
you mention :"musicianship is still there"

I suppose then that you missed the botched cadence in the second section, which also happened on its repeat.. This does betray a certain casualness, (and OKness) with something a bit too close to sloppy). Sometimes - the hands here apparently don't always know what to do.
Sorry dc, but i had to say.

I was careless with my words, since "musicianship" has a rather formal meaning as I understand it.  I meant as opposed to sterile mechanical playing.  I believe that there are some subthemes of sorts here.  One is that the inspiration came from another thread which was about practising, originally asked by a student.  Late in, a video came showing one kind of "practising" which was a run-through of pieces by a professional which also is good for being used to playing in front of others.  The idea of pulling in an audience, and a perception of what makes audiences tick, was in there.  There is reference to that in the opening post.  I was staying inside that framework.

I was also toying with the idea of "tyranny of 'perfection'" in classical music these days versus non-classical, but I don't know if I'm going too far afield here. What I've been learning even in classical is that if you make a change and have a reason for that change then it can be justified (though some will argue), but if it's accidental then maybe it's just careless --- and again in classical music, errors will happen in performances, missed notes will happen, and the pros know how to make it sound good.  A beginnerish or amateur may play perfectly right notes, but it doesn't sound fine.  That's another subtheme.

For the present - I don't have the ear for non-classical and my ear for chords is still developing.  I can't tell if these changes that happened over time "work" or "work better", if any of them are problematic.  Does one - in this kind of music - say that there "is supposed to be" a given chord at a certain spot?  I imagine that some alternate chords would fit, while others don't, and the main thing being that it should "make sense".

[themeandvariation]

" in this kind of music - say that there "is supposed to be" "

Joplin specifically notated.. As Chopin did.  And even went thru the formality of writing introductions to his work,  asking them to be played as written, (though mostly because he thought his sense of syncopation might be misunderstood).  This doesn't mean that one can't make an arrangement of such work, but to change notes here and there, (and haphazardly) does not fit into the framework here, i believe..

[keypeg]

I don't know enough about this genre.   The one thing that matters to me here is why I'm hearing what I'm hearing.  I.e. if a pianist has come up with given chords deliberately through trial and error because of liking how it sounds - and the listener likes the sound - or if it's just slapdash anything goes.  From what dc said, this evolved through deliberate trial and error.   I do know that there are debates about supposed-to's, there are purists and so on.  I don't know the dividing line.

[themeandvariation]

"From what dc said, this evolved through deliberate trial and error"

No.  dc  admitted such - something to the effect of realizing she should open the score.
 "every time I hear someone else play it I always say I am going to pull out the sheet music and fix my errors...but I never do.  You are right...and I will refresh the link."

I look forward to her new - and hopefully full posting of MLR.

[keypeg]

"I have been playing MLR for 40 years and it has morphed into something else..."   I extrapolated a creative process to this, and in this process I extrapolated some internal dialogue going "Hm this sounds pretty good - I think I'll keep this." - as opposed to a beginner accidentally playing a wrong chord and not realizing it.

I find these things interesting and worth thinking about.  I won't write more and will give the stage floor to dc.

[dcstudio]

"From what dc said, this evolved through deliberate trial and error"

No.  dc  admitted such - something to the effect of realizing she should open the score.
 "every time I hear someone else play it I always say I am going to pull out the sheet music and fix my errors...but I never do.  You are right...and I will refresh the link."

I look forward to her new - and hopefully full posting of MLR.

Now theme you have known me long enough to know that I am a jazzer by trade.  I would bet a million dollars that Scott's version morphed into something else after he played it a while.  Jelly Roll Morton did a version of this, too...far quicker and only the first two sections.  This is music played in the cat houses of old new Orleans...his audience was either trying to get laid...or already in the process. There is a freedom here that simply doesn't fit the same mold as classical, dare I say...performance practice.  Somehow ragtime got acknowledged by the classical community...due in no small part to the 1976 movie "the Sting"

They have applied their rules to it and made it into something it was never intended to be.  People go absolutely apeshit for this every time I play it.  Fb major chord be damned. Lol.  I am an entertainer, that's what I do.

[themeandvariation]

"Fb major chord be damned."

I figured as much.  So, you don't play the other 2 sections?  (I have 4 years students that do.  Just saying)

"Im an entertainer"..Yes, i get that.  But here, you are posting for those who play as well.
I would also posit that MLR doesn't quite fall in the category as doing the regular standards like 'night and day' - where a lead sheet would suffice, and morphing Is the rule.. though i realize that this is my opinion. Besides, I don't believe yours was a deliberate morphing- especially noticed in the cadence to the 2nd section.

[dcstudio]

I have offended you and I apologize..
Yes, sometimes, I get careless, sometimes I will improvise a whole solo over that stride bass.  Yes I play all four sections...lol. in a concert situation I would strive to play it perfectly...all errors meticulously corrected.

However, for the drinks and dinner goers that I play for most of the time...it's just not necessarily that important.  I did not post these to brag... well not about my perfect playing anyway.  I have always been the voice of the working class pianist...I am not a purist because quite frankly  I have made far more cash from Linus and Lucy than from Beethoven or Chopin.  This is my job. Three hours sitting at a piano playing while people eat and drink while trying to get money in the jar is my main concern.

I just want folks here to know there are more jobs out there than "world famous concert pianist."

You are holding me to classical standards of perfection because that is what you know.  I don't take it personally. You wouldn't believe how little that kind of perfect playing matters in my world. 

[themeandvariation]

Fair enough. And i certainly wouldn't discount that you make people happy. Quite the opposite.
Thanks for fielding my criticism.

[dcstudio]

Your criticism was quite constructive, thank you.  My YouTube acct is at 1.7 million or close anyway, I learned to handle the critics quite some time ago. 

[themeandvariation]

I missed this:
"You are holding me to classical standards of perfection because that is what you know. "

How would you know what it is i've come to know? I am hardly talking perfection.. more could be addressed in That way than i have mentioned.  
I play many styles, and talking from the point of view of a 'modern' musician - and not stuck in some long past epoch for the purpose of creating a museum piece under glass. I've posted a good amount (of recordings) here which is reflective of my musical sensibilities on such matters.

[keypeg]

I've done a lot of defending but I have to say something about this, which still goes back to the practising question by a student.

I am here to tell you that you will reach a point after 4 or 5 decades where practicing as you know it now will cease to exist forever.  Your hands will just know what to do.

This can be understood different ways, and it can also be applied different ways, including ways that you don't intend.  Let's hope it's understood the right way.
Speaking personally, the practising I once knew ceased forever.  But for me the change was opposite.  As a self-taught child things flowed spontaneously and there was a lot I didn't hear and was not aware of.  I am reteaching my hands what they thought they knew how to do, and I know musicians who continue their explorations for a lifetime.   It all depends where you are.  Deliberate and goal-oriented practice which gradually lets go is what I've adopted these days, and I suspect I'll keep to a version of this henceforth.  There are people who had a very over-disciplined training, I know musicians for whom it was oppressive and stifling - for them doing the opposite may be just the ticket to bring it into balance.  I think we have a whole vast subject to explore, and this isn't the thread to do it in.  A principle I learned has been "If it works, it works."
What the "correct interpretation" of a jazz piece should be, and if there should be a should, is a different thing again.  I remember that Bach was jailed for not following the rules in music as those hiring him saw it.  So DC - did you follow in the footsteps of Bach?  

(In 5 decades I would be over 100 years old, and probably pushing daisies by then.)

[keypeg]

Although sometimes it's not exactly what the composer had in mind. Fresh link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kh54qr4182a7rhq/VIDEO0011.mp4?dl=0

Glad to see the fresh link.   And hear it.

[dcstudio]

I missed this:
"You are holding me to classical standards of perfection because that is what you know. "

How would you know what it is i've come to know? I am hardly talking perfection.. more could be addressed in That way than i have mentioned.  
I play many styles, and talking from the point of view of a 'modern' musician - and not stuck in some long past epoch for the purpose of creating a museum piece under glass. I've posted a good amount (of recordings) here which is reflective of my musical sensibilities on such matters.

I have no doubt of your musical sensibilities nor did I question them. I meant no disrespect but with a name like themeandvariation, in addition to having read many of your posts, I figured you weren't like me...you lean towards the classical genres.  I wouldn't expect that you are out there playing for 100$ plus tips like I am. I myself have my own issues about the plight of the classically trained and perhaps I projected that onto you just a bit. Apologies.

[themeandvariation]

Thanks, dc.
No need to apologize.. we're just talking   but thank you for your concern.
Cheers!

[visitor]

I dig it.

[dcstudio]

That's the coolest thing I have ever seen.